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Chicks On Anime - Yaoi

For the longest time, I'd noticed that while I've never really had that much against yuri, yaoi somehow really creeped me out, and I think I've finally figured out why.

From my experience, some yuri girls may be ridiculously idealized and sexualized, but not even a third as much as a yaoi guys. The stories are actually less fantasized and unrealistic. Also, yuri fanboys and fangirls are nowhere near as annoying. I've never had a yuri fan friend tell me that I "had something wrong with me" for not like yuri. (On separate occasions, I've been told that I had been abused as a child or was really a closet lesbian because I did not like yaoi. Excuse me?!)

Hourou Musoku is pretty much the only series in which male homosexuality plays a role in the plot (although it's admittedly minimal) that I can read in manga because NOTHING is idealized, and it's ALL about the problems of budding sexuality. I'm hoping to pick up Sweet Blue Flowers, a yuri manga by the same author, for similar resuls. If someone could hook me up with gei comi (gay manga written by gay men, for gay men; none of this female sex fantasy crap), I could read that.

Last edited by suna_suna on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total

Yaoi is an intersting subjest to debate. cultural perception is certainly a driving force into what we feel is beautiful or sexy. as far as my life is concerned, i have grown up with the perception that women are the embodiment of beauty and sex appeal. that really has nothing to do with my orientation. let me use TV as an example. there was a commercial a few years back that starts off with an attarctive women dancing around, saying that when she sweats, it's hot, but when you(a guy) sweats, you stink. it was an old spice commercial i think. with the way women are sometimes presented in society, the first thing many would think is, OMG she's really hot. then they might be like, oh it's a deoderant ad. my point here is that at least the American society does certainly view women as the epitome of beauty. and that's what should concern me, not what happen before the renaissance, although that is a great point.

no to actually disscuss yaoi, people can have any number of reasons to enjoy a series, and it's not just about the sex or the relationship. i personally, really liked FAKE. why? because it had an etertaining and exciting story, as a cop drama. it just happened to have a gay cop and a bi cop. although, i must be honest and say that it was the boy love that intigued me about it, but only because i had never seen that genre before. and it did run the idea of seme and uke throughout. but i do think that yaoi as a genre has certain molds that people associate witht them, but they're not true. a good point is the one about "good" yaoi. i don;t think that's something that should be said so blatantly. it may be true, but i see that as a good manga with yoai elements. the point being, if the work is truly great, then the characters gender shouldn't have too much to do with it being a good series. granted, this may not happen too much and your reasons for prefering a good yaoi over a good "shoujo" are perfectly valid. but story shouldn't have to rely on a gay element to drive the reader to continue.

as a final point, there are fangils for everything, and no one group of fangirls is anymore annoying then the others. and even then, it is all individuals that really drive it home. it's the obnoxiousness that annoys, not the obeject of the fangirlism.

i hope i'm clear about my views and that i don't offend anybody.

After School Nightmare is a really good series, I don't think it counts as BL though.. I mean he's not *really* a boy after all. Or is he? *dun dun DUN!*

I think a better way to put this into perspective is to differentiate between the fans of Yaoi and the fans of "yawee." The screaming battles at NYAF? That was yawee. The company "Hen da ne!" that sell the paddles with one guy yelling at the top of his lungs? That's yawee.

I think it's better to note those who are interested in reading Yaoi because of its content, and those who read yaoi because of its "popularity." What I've seen from the obnoxious screaming fangirlism (that itself is its own genre. Normal fangirlism is different) is that it shifts from genre to genre. From what I remember, there used to be a huge focus on couples due to shoujo manga and now it's yaoi.

Honestly, I don't think there's some big outbreak of Yaoi reading. I think there's just a very vocal minority that's basically advertising yaoi.

In terms of tolerance, I think this quote works best.

Last edited by Fairy Hime on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

I agree with Sekicharat. The feminist fight in America isn't over yet and regardless of whether we call it feminism a lot of women are still fighting to prove that women aren't weak and inferior. When we see a female character like that, it's offensive because we view it as a misrepresentation of our sex. We don't want people to look at that and say "this is what women are like". Even though women are about half the population, there's still as sense that we're a minority group because we've been fighting for equality for so long and continue to fight for it. Therefore seeing a woman who isn't an equal or a superior in a relationship is seen as sexist regardless of the fact that there are weak women as well as weak men in society. I think it's interesting that it wasn't mentioned that it's mostly tomboys who read yaoi because they're the one who are gonna feel this more acutely. There's an attraction to yaoi because you can have stories of romantic and sexual relationships between superiors and inferiors without having to be offended as a woman.

Another thing I thought they should have mentioned is the history of homosexuality in Japan. Males and females have been segregated in Japan since ancient times. During the Heian era noble husbands and wives didn't generally even live in the same house. Men and women had very limited contact with each other and when they met the women sat behind a screen or they were meeting to have sex. Because of so little contact the love between a man and a woman were thought to be inferior to the love between two men because only another man could be your equal and it was them you spent your time with. Love between two men was even considered to be more pure than the love between a man and a woman.

Another thing that should be pointed out is Shudo, Way of the Youth. All members of the samurai class would take a boy for a lover until the boy became of of age. Well known samurai such of Tokugawa engaged in this practice and it would have been viewed as odd if they hadn't.

You really need to look at the history of homosexuality in Japan and gender roles to understand yaoi. I'm disappointed that they didn't bring in a guest for this topic because it was obvious that no one who participated had much knowledge in the subject.

Being neither a good or bad thing, sometimes I get the feeling that female-aimed sexy/thrills/soapy material is often sold/explained (sometimes dubiously) as some sort of intellectual, emotional foray or brave social statement, rather than just stating 'It gives me an enjoyable thrill'. Not knowing much about 'Yaoi', I emerged from a two page article feeling more like I stepped into a manic freshman bull session rather than truly learned anything about a genre which basically sells thrills of angsty, androgynous guys working up to a two-bear mambo. Somehow I don't think titles like 'ANAL' are tapping in to a market hungry for post-colonial class/privilege allegories cleverly disguised as same-sex bacchanalia.

Of course my perception of the subgenre and it's fans are limited to what I read on this message board, but it does seem on some levels that a big section of the Yaoi/BL base feel the need to 'upscale' the genre more than their counterparts on the male T&A side of yore. Most guys who liked 'Agent Aika' were fine to state it was great base-level boobs n' explosions thrills, and not an intricate expose on modern gender alienation and consumer society.

Like I said it's no pressing matter, but 'Thrills for gals' and 'Thrills for guys'* often appear to get markedly different treatments.

*(Not including some of the creepy 'subservient' material or 'emotional-harem' stuff that legitimately raises issues outside of simple thrills.)

I completely agree with Casey on this one. I love yaoi, and I think she got the point across of why yaoi is appealing very well.

@OP: Recommendations for yaoi/BL titles? For starters, anything written by Yoshinaga Fumi is good stuff. She has a lot of one shots out, my favorite of which that I've read so far being Lovers in the Night. Also, the one shot entitled Hate to Love You that was put out by Deux Press was one that struck me as particularly good. Pet on Duty is a cute title, and Wild Rock has a decent story and beautiful artwork. Those are also one shots.

This was a very interesting topic. I learned quite a bit. And yeah, the fangirls,irritate me.

interesting article. I dislike yaoi, personally for the same reason i dislike most anime romances, the dialog is horrible and the plot never goes anywhere.

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Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Yaoi

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Chicks On Anime - Yaoi