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A Look at Redline with Takeshi Koike


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ryanvamp



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 416
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:47 am Reply with quote
I do hope that Redline finds success with western audiences, cause it certainly didn't do well in Japan. Like the introduction of the article says, the anime industry has become to averse to take risks, and unfortunately this serves as an example of what happens when they don't play safe.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14758
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:11 am Reply with quote
ryanvamp wrote:
I do hope that Redline finds success with western audiences, cause it certainly didn't do well in Japan. Like the introduction of the article says, the anime industry has become to averse to take risks, and unfortunately this serves as an example of what happens when they don't play safe.


And it's not moe high school girls. Moe with risks like Madoka is OK.
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tadpolily



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:43 pm Reply with quote
It kind of felt a little forgettable to me. Of course there was the action, humor and amazing animation but the movie seemed to be lacking something.

I guess I did not really feel emotionally invested in any of the characters despite finding them all very likeable. There really wasn't any low point or enough character development for me.
I still recommend buying it though.
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Toriko36



Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 205
Location: Hoboken, NJ
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:36 am Reply with quote
Plenty of people have expressed their opinion about Redline, so I will keep mine brief. This film is what the anime industry has been needing for a very long time. I hope with some great reception from western audiences, it could be spoken of along the lines of other great Anime motion pictures such as Ghost in the Shell and Akira. Now those titles are amazing and also very different, but as stand alone motion pictures, Redline, is a true treat that hasn't been shown in many, many years.

I also wanted to mention that I attended the event last night at the Green Space here in New York City. I had the honor to meet Mr. Kelts at the end of the event and asked him his opinion on Redline, the age of the director and if Redline were to be succesful, is there hope for the anime industry. It was a pleasure meeting him and it was a great event.
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NatWu



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:36 pm Reply with quote
tadpolily wrote:
It kind of felt a little forgettable to me. Of course there was the action, humor and amazing animation but the movie seemed to be lacking something.

I guess I did not really feel emotionally invested in any of the characters despite finding them all very likeable. There really wasn't any low point or enough character development for me.
I still recommend buying it though.


There are people for whom sheer visceral excitement is not enough reason to watch a movie. I honestly can't understand that, but I will agree that if you're the kind of person who really wants to heavily invest in characters emotionally and you only get wrapped up in intricate plots, this movie may not appeal to you so much. It's very straightforward.

To me, that's no drawback. The action is intense and the race just doesn't let up on wild action. If you're the kind of person who likes action, this is great. The visual style is so amazing, it's groundbreaking. The action sequences will just overload your eyes until you feel like there's actually too much going on. I love it!

By the way, the director's live-action films are nothing like this. Funky Forest and Taste of Tea are truly great movies, but nothing like this. I do recommend them, especially Funky Forest (and that is one hell of a weird movie).
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Proud



Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:03 am Reply with quote
God, this movie was incredible. As someone else already said, I feel like I've been waiting for a movie like this for well over 10 years now. Nothing else on the market today has the same sort of visceral, explosive excitement that this one has. Truly an utter gem.

By the way, who else has watched this at least 3/4 times already? Razz
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:46 am Reply with quote
ryanvamp wrote:
I do hope that Redline finds success with western audiences, cause it certainly didn't do well in Japan. Like the introduction of the article says, the anime industry has become to averse to take risks, and unfortunately this serves as an example of what happens when they don't play safe.


Finding success with western audiences doesn't mean a thing. Anime is not about appealing to westerners, it's about the original Japanese audience. Short of the rare instances of western companies ponying up millions of dollars to commission some series from Japanese studios, Japan isn't going to take what western audiences care about or what's hot in the market into consideration.

And color me pessimistic, but I somehow doubt Redline is going to be reaching the levels of other anime like Pocket Monsters, Naruto, One Piece, Dragonball Z, Fullmetal Alchemist and other popular anime in the west.

And there's a difference between 'taking risks' and 'putting out a product I liked'. Lots of anime every year take risks, some succeed, some bomb. Redline isn't really some unique snowflake people try to make it out to be in that regard, nor just because someone likes it does that mean no other anime takes risks just because they don't like the anime that does take risks. Just because Redline is some animation auteur project doesn't really make it good, or maybe more accurately, doesn't mean it deserves to do well. Like tadpolily mentioned, most people do need some kind of substance or drive to see a movie. If people are just praising this for it's over the top nature and animation, then what does that say? Can the industry survive off that kind of mindset? (the answer is no, going by the sales) Redline is just another anime that took a risk and it didn't pay off for them. Nothing more, nothing less.


Last edited by TitanXL on Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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NatWu



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:47 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:


Finding success with western audiences doesn't mean a thing. Anime is not about appealing to westerners, it's about the original Japanese audience.


So...you didn't actually read the author interview where he stated he wanted this to appeal to Americans who aren't already familiar with anime, which is why it has a very simple theme of fast cars and racing?
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:00 am Reply with quote
NatWu wrote:
So...you didn't actually read the author interview where he stated he wanted this to appeal to Americans who aren't already familiar with anime, which is why it has a very simple theme of fast cars and racing?


That's good for him, but it doesn't really change anything. I'm saying the whole notion of "this is an example of what happens when they don't play safe" is flat out untrue given tons of the most successful anime of 2011 was a risk. Trying to blame Redline's failure on it being a 'risk' while Madoka, Tiger & Bunny, Steins;Gate, AnoHana, Persona 4, and other 'risky' anime soared is just making excuses. If the whole notion was to target people who don't like anime, then I think that might be the biggest factor on why it tanked as opposed to it was a 'risk'. Marketing wise, there's 'risk' and then there's 'making a product for people who don't like said product'
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:06 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Trying to blame Redline's failure on it being a 'risk' while Madoka, Tiger & Bunny, Steins;Gate, AnoHana, Persona 4, and other 'risky' anime soared is just making excuses.


It's a sad testament to the state of anime fandom that apparently an adaptation of an immensely popular video game is now considered "risky".
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:45 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:

That's good for him, but it doesn't really change anything. I'm saying the whole notion of "this is an example of what happens when they don't play safe" is flat out untrue given tons of the most successful anime of 2011 was a risk. Trying to blame Redline's failure on it being a 'risk' while Madoka, Tiger & Bunny, Steins;Gate, AnoHana, Persona 4, and other 'risky' anime soared is just making excuses. If the whole notion was to target people who don't like anime, then I think that might be the biggest factor on why it tanked as opposed to it was a 'risk'. Marketing wise, there's 'risk' and then there's 'making a product for people who don't like said product'


Okay, now you're failing Logic 101 here. Isn't, "a high chance of failure" the very definition of risky? And how can making a product outside the usual demographic NOT be considered risky?

And saying, "well this can't be considered risky because all these other things that were 'risky' succeeded"...huh? What?
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
It's a sad testament to the state of anime fandom that apparently an adaptation of an immensely popular video game is now considered "risky".


Considering it's following the heels of the colossal disappointment and hatred of Persona 3 Trinity Souls, yeah, it stands to be a risky endeavor to try to make another Persona anime. It's akin to making a Batman movie reboot after Joel Schumacher's Batman series. Public eye is going to be very wary and critical, and you better deliver. Ever since Persona 4's success, Japanese fans have been begging for a proper anime adaption of 3 and jaded they got stuck with trinity souls. Not to mention it's a video game not about "cute girls doing cute things, shonen heroes' journeys aplenty, and fanservice-laden romantic comedies" the article mentions. Neither of those shows are, yet they succeeded just fine.

Shenl742 wrote:
Okay, now you're failing Logic 101 here. Isn't, "a high chance of failure" the very definition of risky? And how can making a product outside the usual demographic NOT be considered risky?

And saying, "well this can't be considered risky because all these other things that were 'risky' succeeded"...huh? What?


You seemed to have missed the point completely. My point is the original statement of 'Redline is an example of what happens you when take a risk in an industry that is averse to taking risks' is false due to the fact that, one, plenty of other series have taken a risk and succeeded; every season, in fact, so the notion that the industry is averse to them is untrue. And two, no, it's not an example given plenty other series have succeeded, and trying to pin Redline being unpopular on just the fact it was a risk is just trying to shift the blame to those devious otaku who only eat up moe and are ruining in the industry and whatever people are bashing them for. This whole 'all series must conform or perish' idea is silly and hyperbolic, just as the comments of 'this is what the anime industry needs and proof there is hope that it'll survive' are. People are making a mountain out of a molehill, more or less. Series fail to meet sales expectations every season, and this is no different.
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bravetailor



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:29 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:


You seemed to have missed the point completely. My point is the original statement of 'Redline is an example of what happens you when take a risk in an industry that is averse to taking risks' is false due to the fact that, one, plenty of other series have taken a risk and succeeded; every season, in fact, so the notion that the industry is averse to them is untrue. And two, no, it's not an example given plenty other series have succeeded, and trying to pin Redline being unpopular on just the fact it was a risk is just trying to shift the blame to those devious otaku who only eat up moe and are ruining in the industry and whatever people are bashing them for. This whole 'all series must conform or perish' idea is silly and hyperbolic, just as the comments of 'this is what the anime industry needs and proof there is hope that it'll survive' are. People are making a mountain out of a molehill, more or less. Series fail to meet sales expectations every season, and this is no different.


QFT. The anime industry, currently, is no more or less risk-averse than what we see in movies and TV in the U.S. People always need to blame something when the fact is sometimes stuff just fails and there's no adequate blame or explanation for it.

Historically, unpromoted films have always been overlooked. There are so many films released every year. And anime films have typically never generated much buzz among North American anime fans unless they're Ghibli. How many non-Ghibli anime films--good or bad--just came went over the past 10 years? Lots. It's the nature of the market.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:07 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Considering it's following the heels of the colossal disappointment and hatred of Persona 3 Trinity Souls, yeah, it stands to be a risky endeavor to try to make another Persona anime. It's akin to making a Batman movie reboot after Joel Schumacher's Batman series.


Making another Batman movie was in no way risky. Neither was Persona 4. Obviously if they botched it it might have been a failure but so long as they actually kept to the source material it was a safe bet that there'd be a huge, ready made audience out there.

Look, I'm not saying Persona 4 (or the other shows you mentioned) are the most risk free anime out there. There are certainly far more safe shows every season, shows that do absolutely nothing new whatsoever. Where as many of the ones you mentioned absolutely do go in fresh directions. Some of them even drastically so. It's just that they all do that while simultaneously offering some extremely conventional fallback appeal. And hey, that's not a bad thing. It's a great way to do something revolutionary while still finding financial success. If we're taking about risk though, it undoubtedly puts them closer to the "low risk" end where as Redline, which is pretty much the polar opposite of everything conventionally found in modern anime, sits on the exact opposite end of the spectrum.

Quote:
Not to mention it's a video game not about "cute girls doing cute things, shonen heroes' journeys aplenty, and fanservice-laden romantic comedies" the article mentions. Neither of those shows are, yet they succeeded just fine.


Eh...yes and no. Persona has some pretty glaring dating sim and harem elements and a lot of borderline shounen monster battling elements though. It also offers a whole lot more but it's hardly as out there as Redline.
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Snomaster1
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Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:17 pm Reply with quote
I've got to admit. "Redline" does sound like an interesting anime. One of these days,I hope to see it.
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