Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - GloBL and Gay Comics
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gynocrat_rex
 Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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It's serialized in RUSH, from Dramaqueen. I sold the book in its entirety to a German publisher, so the graphic novel will be out in German before it's released collected in English. Sadly, DQ had its issues and held up the release of installments. 
So far there's been RUSH 0, RUSH 1, and RUSH 2 is slated for an end of December release, but we'll see-- none of us in RUSH have been notified about details. >.> http://www.onedramaqueen.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=67 |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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Oh, it was in RUSH. Okay. I never picked RUSH up because I hadn't heard of it before DQ had their troubles (over a year ago now). I'm hoping that the imminent release of The Tyrant Falls in Love volume 1 signals a brighter future for DQ (as well as the whole of the domestic BL publishing industry). Maybe I'll throw a volume of RUSH into the cart when they finally list it. It seems DQ's shipping cost is the same up to 4 items. |
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caporushes
Posts: 16 |
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As far as RUSH is concerned, since it was mentioned, I've found it to be really good, especially in terms of a balance of the stories. It has some more typically "Japanese" stories along with Children of Bones and Roulette, which are more what I'm looking for at this current point in my life. Great magazine, and I hope DQ gets over their issues so it can flourish properly.
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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THis was a very interesting article/discussion.
I knew there was ML for guys, but never really thought about it since I am happy with my yaoi. It does make sense for the various "body types"-the "fetishes" (the discussion in "I Now Pronounce You" over being into chubby.) & my getting lost at Amazon Japan & going from magazine covers of beefy guys peeking out of lockers or from behind doorways at other beefy guys to 2 Sumo Wrestler-types to a couple of escapees from DBZ. We do have the variations in yaoi, though not as much. There's the guys that DO look like chicks (Lily Hoshino), guys that look like children (which tends to be more the artist's style), to the somewhat beefy construction worker type (Kano), to a more average, less beautiful boy look. And let us not forget Don't Worry Mama & its 300 lb uke I was surprized to hear of the level of romance apparently involved. I'd heard the stuff aimed at guys was more straight to sex & multiple partners. |
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dragon695
 Posts: 1377 Location: Clemson, SC |
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Note to moderators: Yaoi is explicitly sexual manga so I hope you can forgive me for discussing some things of explicit nature. I have tried my best to avoid vulgar/crass terminology.
Ok, as a gay man I just had to chime in since this interview touched on many things which I get fired up about. Issue #1 The seme/uke nonsense. Oh how I detest seme/uke! It captures some of the worst stereotypes that heterosexuals have of gay men. About maybe 20% of the gay couples out there have dedicated dominant/submissive roles and even then you really can't judge by looking at them or how they act. It's called BDSM and most of us aren't into it. Sure we have our preferences as to which position we like better, but it doesn't mean we are *always* on top or *always* on the bottom. Most of us switch it up. Hell, most of us have the "stamina" (I'll avoid the vulgar phrase) to do BOTH positions in the same night!  But more to the point, seme/uke perpetuates not only bad gay stereotypes, but it perpetuates the denigration of the female sex since we are to assume the uke is suppose to represent a female. Do you girls actually like being represented as weak-willed, wilting flowers who can't stand up for themselves or express what they want?!? Honestly, it should frustrate you as much as it does me.
Issue #2 I just HATE crying bottoms! GAH! What is with that? Anal intercourse doesn't *hurt* that much, even if it is your first time. You don't start crying like a baby! If you are crying like that, then it is because your lover is not treating you right! How the heck is that romantic? If you are hurting your lover, how is that love? If it isn't in the context of non-consensual, then it makes little sense that the bottom would be happy if his lover was being that careless. Issue #3 Ghost penises or penises which don't look right. The internet is covered with pictures of beautiful penises. Why does it seem like many yaoi artists refuse to find decent references when drawing the male anatomy? Issue #4 Oral intercourse or lack thereof. Another frustrating aspect of most yaoi stories almost always jump straight from kissing to the anal intercourse. Don't leave out an equally satisfying part! Many gay men find oral intercourse to be extremely sensual. Also, it is more realistic for a first timer to have oral intercourse then it is to have anal intercourse. I get the feeling this could be due to women maybe not enjoying the act of oral intercourse as much as gay men do. Issue #5 While I appreciate you pointing it out, I feel I must reiterate that BARA is NOT yaoi for ALL gay men. On the contrary, you will find that the preferred body type for gay males falls between the extremes. What yaoi artists should do is have more young men who have strong frames but are not overly-muscled. A swimmer's build, if you will. It is frustrating to have very little that depicts what most of us like. It is either guys who look like girls without breasts or ridiculously built/obese men who have way too much body hair. Fortunately, that is starting to change, but it is still way too prevalent. Also, we like romance, too! So, no, it is not accurate to say only a minority of the gay "m/m" fans enjoy that aspect. I guess the difference is that gay relationships often are similar to platonic male relationships. We like to hang out and do things like other straight guys do. Being with your lover and enjoying something together is romantic. A "date" might be watching football together (hooray for tight uniforms). They also tend to be lower-maintenance. Like you don't shower the other guy with lots of expensive crap. Issue #6 Yaoi Doujin. One thing that annoys me beyond anything, and it is related to #1, is bad doujin! Why must you distort the characters beyond recognition to fit them into seme/uke roles? If you have two strong characters, why can they not remain strong in a sexual context? Take, for example, the horrible butchering of poor Naruto when he is paired with Sasuke. Ridiculous, absurd portrayals of a well-known character can be not only a distraction, but a major turn off! Especially when part of the attraction of the pairing is the chemistry shown in the canon work. |
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Cait
Posts: 503 |
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I have to interject on this one. "Ghost penises" are not a "choice" of the mangaka, they are a product of Japanese censorship laws. While I agree with you on many of your points, the fact is that yaoi as a genre is far more wide-ranging than you seem to be giving it credit for. It is true that the stereotypes do exist and are rather prevalent, but they do not comprise the whole of the genre, nor have they ever done so. |
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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First, thanks for commenting and sharing the issues that many gay readers have with most common BL manga and yaoi doujinshi.
Ok. I really wanted to touch on GloBL and Gay comics, and I tried to steer away from BL [yaoi] from Japan, but it seems like much of your frustration is aimed at the Japanese genre, you might want to specify that your comments are more for the first part of this article [posted last week] instead of this weeks segment. 
#1 Since "bara" nor BL is supposed to reflect any form of gay reality, calling out seme/uke for being unrealistic is sort of futile. [please don't be insulted, just saying.] #2 No one likes a weepy uke, but damn those books keep selling. LOL! Your demanding to know if women want to be reflected that way is somewhat misdirected and a little unfair to western readers. While Japanese mangaka create these constructs for their own reasons--many western fen do not read these books in order to put themselves into 'the uke or seme' position. Sure, identification plays a major factor for some female readers, but for the most part-- relationships are unbalanced in Japanese culture, and since Japanese women are the primary source for these stories and archetypes, I think the question should be aimed at them. 
#3 Glowing Cones of Light spring from a combination of early Japanese censorship laws and a common aesthetic that seems to dictate that many BL fans in Japan don't really like seeing detailed 'dangly bits'. #4 There's plenty of oral in BL, its how the Seme 'starts' on the uke. If you're talking about 'yaoi dojinshi', then yes--most of it goes from holding hands to anal in about two pages. #5 I think I boldly stated that Gay manga was not all about big cocks and quick sex. I stated that gay readers gravitated toward BL because they were looking for erotic comics that reflected romantic relationships because western erotic comics was [still is] mostly pornographic. BL licensed in the states reflected some semblance of romance, so gay male fans gravitated toward it--but it's very unrealistic and so gay male fans wanted something more. I don't know if one of the other ladies gave you the impression that they felt gay men read this stuff because they had no concept of romance; I never said that.
#6 Yaoi is just that - YAOI. It's porn for the sake of porn. Yaoi fan doujinshi really is mostly 4 women by women, and the fujosi who make it are really just playing with gender types and in no way trying to 'keep it real'. Sadly, anything parodied from the Shounen genre will always be victim to teen doujinshika and their very warped view of a sexual relationship. 
I do appreciate your input though, and highly suggest you check out the Japanese Comics for Adults forums. Also, there's Yaoi911 - a blog by gay male BL fan and creator Alex Wolfson. http://www.yaoi911.com/ |
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Cait
Posts: 503 |
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I'd also add to this point that anal intercourse could be said to be depicted as "painful" because for women, the "first time" having sex is indeed painful, but more than being physically painful it is something that causes a lot of anxiety on a psychological level. A lot of what BL is in depictions of sex are safe outlets for the fears and anxieties that women and girls have about it, acted out in "safe" environment. Along with being devoid of reality, it is devoid of women, making it even safer to explore fetishes and those anxieties without fear of immediate self-reflection. it isn't meant to contain realistic depictions of homosexuality, in fact, the farther from reality the better in some cases. No one wants to think about real rape in the context of a rape fantasy, nor do they want to think about what enjoying rape fantasy means about themselves. |
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genman
Posts: 40 |
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I read a lot of ero-manga and find there's quite a variety of styles, fetishes, fantasies, and clever ideas that although in most respects it is the same format, it's usually interesting, and sometimes astonishing.
So, on the other side, I can't see how erotic comics for women (BL or not) could possibly grow stale unless there's a lack of imagination or possibly editorial control as was claimed. Still, barring censorship, there's always ways for people to innovate, through doujinshi or web releases, and these ideas get carried on. Content-wise, I think the column should include a bibliography and a list of "recommended reading". It would have been helpful to explain what GloBL was as well. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Just a question to start off with. How much BL have you actually read?
To be honest, I really don't think about "seme and uke" the way you do. The way people talk about seme and uke, it's as if every single BL manga out there starts out with the two guys sitting over a cup of coffee, drafting out a sexual contract in which one pledges to be 1) on the bottom during anal intercourse, 2) for all eternity, or until the series ends. I understand that most gay men do not have it hardwired into their skulls which sexual position they prefer. I don't find it hard to believe that they might have a preference though, and that's all seme and uke really is. Now, in some series, the uke expresses an interest in being on top and the seme rebuffs him. That does not work for me, and nothing will stop me reading a series faster. But as long as it's implied to be a choice where both are happy and content? What's the problem. "Uke" aren't chosen for specific personality traits, and I think every BL fan has a different "type" they like to see on the bottom, so really, I think this is a matter of just not having read much of the genre and working off hearsay. One of the most popular BL series out there--Haru o Daiteita--has switching protagonists. (Iwaki is usually on the bottom, but when he's in the mood, he'll top and Katou loves it when he does so). Or try anything by Uchida Kazana, where the sex is as multiple as the positions, and switching is regular. Neither of the series I just mentioned are out of the way, non-mainstream series. Nitta is one of THE most popular BL creators, and Uchida was among the first wave of writers who is still writing BL manga to this day.
A lot of the time, these sex acts are taking place between two relatively inexperienced people. It's one thing to talk about "if your partner treats you right, it shouldn't hurt", but what if your partner isn't exactly sure how to treat you either? Aside from that, I'm not big on this cliche either.
Look, this is a problem even in heterosexual porn drawn by men in Japan, who should at least have their own equipment to inspect. Pornography is censored in Japan, there is stigma against women being interested in pornography in Japan, the point of the porn isn't the penises. Take your pick! As an aside, I don't see many glowing cones nowadays.
I really don't know what you're reading. More often than not, a sex scene starts out with oral. Lately there's also been a move away from simple anal sex. You get handjobs/rubbing now too.
Next time this comes up, I swear to god I am going to march into my Japanese bookstore and take a billion pictures of the BL stand just so people can see that "swimmers build" is currently 75% of BL manga at my unscientific opinion. And most of them look like two guys too! I mean, I can understand the confusion if all you've read is Gravitation, but let me put it this way. Back when I started reading BL, I could take my books to my (very strict) school because no one would look at the covers and think "two guy guys!", they'd think "she's reading (het) Japanese comics!" If I was still in school nowadays, that just wouldn't work. Please keep in mind that your mental image of yaoi and titles might be outdated in comparison to what's actually popular in Japan.
Because doujinshi are fanmade and no one ever said fans had to be good writers. (Gay doujinshi are pretty bad about this two, just in different ways than forced seme/uke, btw) |
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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I agree. List featuring GloBL that's on sale now at Amazon, and bookstores [they they rarely seem to shelf it]. GloBL is English language 'BL' made outside of Japan by creators from all over the Globe who aren't [obviously] Japanese. There are two main styles in GloBL I've seen popular with fans - [these are my definitions BTW, to each their own] +imitation [looks and feels--or tries to look and feel] just like the Japanese BL. +western [looks nothing like the Japanese standard, but may or may not have a story that fits the cookie-cutter BL mold] NOTICE: I am not listing titles produced by mainstream publishers that are NOT SOLD as 'yaoi'; or are indie comics published that are not in the 'manga' format [staples or web series]. If you want to list those on your own, be my guest. 
========================= RUSH 0, RUSH 1 [various styles, anthology] --Dramaqueen-- +contains imitation [Master!, My Guardian Angel, Venom Fang] +and western [Children of Bones, Roulette, Night and Day] Dany & Dany from Italy [imitation] +Anima [latest title] --Yaoi Press- +IDOL --Yaoi Press-- +Wishing for the Moon --Yaoi Press-- +Lily and the Rose --Yaoi Press-- KOSEN from Spain [imitation] +Stallion --Yaoi Press-- +Saihoshi The Guardian --Yaoi Press-- * Tina Anderson, USA I won't make a list because I'm a writer and my scripts are assigned various artists [mostly western]. My titles are here if you're truly interested in seeing a list. Laura Carboni from Italy [western] +Love Circles --Yaoi Press-- +Roulette [upcoming] --Dramaqueen-- Yayoi Neko from USA [imitation] +Incubus 1 --Kitty Media-- +Incubus 2 --Kitty Media-- +Incubus 3 --Kitty Media-- Studio Kawaii from Spain [western] +Treasure 1 --Yaoi Press-- +Treasure 2 --Yaoi Press-- Yamila Abraham from USA is another writer on the list who uses various artists [she also owns Yaoi Press, all of her titles are released through Yaoi Press]: +Winter Demon 1[artist: Studio Kosaru] +Winter Demon 2 [artists Le Peruggine] +Winter Demon 3 [artists Le Peruggine] +Winter Demon 4 [artists Rhea Silvan] +Dark Prince 1 [artist M.A. Sambre] +Dark Prince 2 [artist M.A. Sambre] Le Peruggine from Italy [imitation] +Cain 1 --Yaoi Press-- +Cain 2 --Yaoi Press-- +Cain 3 --Yaoi Press-- Last edited by gynocrat_rex on Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dragon695
Posts: 1377 Location: Clemson, SC |
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Eventhough it is a month and some change old, I thought I would apologize for my testy and mostly off-topic post. It was correct to note that my frustration was with my limited encounters with Japanese BL and thus not really apropos to GloBL. I do find the GloBL to be much more to my liking because, as you mentioned, it tends to not have the limitations of a nippon-centric world view. Thanks also for those excellent links, they were quite helpful.
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