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mufurc
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 472
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 Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:14 am |
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*reads review*
Oh my. What a fine example of completely missing the point... |
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rizuchan
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:49 am |
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| Quote: | | he cast, as the show itself loves to point out, are just one-dimensional types, and save for the expected fact that they all seem to fall in love with the heroine, nothing about them changes. There is the stoic guy, the pseudo-jailbait, the twincest, the nearsighted sadistic, and so forth… |
What, is Renge writing this review? 
I'll agree that one of the greatest shortcomings of Ouran is that most of the 'character development' turns out to be how each member falls in love with Haruhi. I don't know that I could call the characters comepletely one-dimensional, though. There's a lot of character building episodes to be contained in part 2 (though that doesn't help this review)
Agreeing with the rest of the comments, obviously the reviewer doesn't 'get' it. Everyone I've met that dislikes Ouran seems to have this problem. If you take Ouran seriously then there absolutely is nothing to enjoy, it's just a bunch of stereotypical characters going around doing all the disgusting things rich people do. |
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asimpson2006
 Subscriber
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 848
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:10 am |
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| What from everyone has said Ouran looks like one of those shows that you either are going to like or not like it at all. I'm neutral right now since I haven't seen the series but I'm temping to rent it to check it out before I decided if I want to buy it or not. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:52 am |
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| dtm42 wrote: | Wow, am I getting good or what? Just by reading the blurb on the the front page, I knew exactly who the reviewer was.
That takes skills. Serious skills.
I mean, if the word "postmodern" didn't give it away, I don't know what will. |
I'm really not going to let this thread become another "let's all rip Casey to shreds because we disagree with her opinion" thread, so let's be careful with how we couch our arguments, kay?
Also this statement implies that somehow using the word 'postmodern' is... I don't know, pretentious? It's a really, REALLY common phrase that most people know the meaning of and I gotta say the level of anti-intellectualism I see in some of these comments is disturbing. |
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minakichan
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 878
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:59 am |
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Wait.
Did you just complain that Ouran is shallow and total eye-candy without substance?
Have you been WATCHING this series? THAT'S. THE. POINT.
I mean, the shallowness is so The Point that the series makes fun of itself for it. Geez... |
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Teriyaki Terrier
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 1610
Location: Chihuahua Island
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:17 am |
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| Quote: | | Parody doesn't necessarily mean profundity, and Ouran is lacking in basic story and character development. |
This sums of my option of the show, except for the fact this show looks like the typical shojo show. Everyone looks sparkling, but the characters lack development. |
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Flaed
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:12 pm |
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Oddly enough, this review describes pretty much exactly the show I was afraid Ouran would be until I watched it. . .about a month ago, I guess. I'm not a very big fan of self aware humor or of shows that are intentionally stupid, and I am really un-fond of shows where "they all seem to fall in love with the heroine." So I'm sort of intrigued because I was surprised by the characterization and the genuine emotional content. Episode eight was actually my least favorite episode in the set because I felt the drama was very strained.
I'd agree that Ouran's one-episode plots are not very interesting at all, but they seemed to get less and less frequent by the end of the set (but maybe that's just my imagination). And Renge struck me as a character that needed to grow or else leave altogether (I'm pretty sure neither is going to happen, unfortunately).
Still, the fact that Tamaki struck me as a person filled with hilariously misguided kindness (his inability to grasp the difference between having limited finances and extreme, abject poverty was particularly endearing) was probably the single biggest thing that made Ouran stand out to me. That and Haruhi's down-to-earth nature. The Alice in Wonderland episode was absolutely beautiful, and I also felt it was an interesting insight into Haruhi's mind. It's not psychological realism, to be sure, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.
I don't think I'd agree that "social and psychological complexities of adolescence" are what make shoujo works great insofar as they are shoujo or the standard by which they should be judged (maybe I'd say emotional honesty and a sense of nostalgia? But then I'm not greatly familiar with shoujo as a genre). And if I don't agree with that statement, I'm not sure there's much here that would let me know whether or not the rest of the review is accurate or not.
It was interesting read, though. Still, I guess when it comes down to it, the fact is the only thing that's made me laugh harder that Ouran was Bringing Up Baby, so whatever its shortcomings may be, as a comedy it certainly succeeded for me. |
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amendez
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:43 pm |
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| I think most peoples major complaint about the review is that Casey obviously goes into the show with one expectation of what the show will be and then judges it for not living up to her false expectation. I am sure that some people are attacking her because they disagree with her overall opinion but I feel it is a weak review due to an odd disconnect between the reviewer and the show. It's like saying that this hamburger is the worst pizza I ever had. |
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3188
Location: NZ. 35% of the way to where I want to be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:12 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | I'm really not going to let this thread become another "let's all rip Casey to shreds because we disagree with her opinion" thread, so let's be careful with how we couch our arguments, kay?
Also this statement implies that somehow using the word 'postmodern' is... I don't know, pretentious? It's a really, REALLY common phrase that most people know the meaning of and I gotta say the level of anti-intellectualism I see in some of these comments is disturbing. |
Just as Casey apparently missed the point of the series (I take all these people's word for it), you missed mine. I was just saying that Casey has a unique style of writing, and that said style is easily recognisable. I was implying nothing more than that.
However, now that I'm here; it is not pretentious for Casey to over-analyse a show. Indeed, it is interesting to read her serious take on it. But at the end of the day, Ouran High School Host Club is shamelessly geared for the screaming fangirls (well, the Japanese fangirls, but still), and is no deeper than that.
You can scratch at the desert all you like, but the sand is too deep. In other words, don't bother trying to find character development, because there doesn't seem to be any. This is a sort of dumb Anime that thrives on keeping its fans entertained; it is in no way trying to be intellectual or accomplished.
I don't mind Casey's style. And it does come in handy for the more serious productions. However, she needs to learn to identify the pure comedy and/or slice-of-life series from said serious productions. And then she needs to let her hair down, figuratively speaking. That's just my opinion, but from the comments here I would say she would be well to remember that not all Anime are created equal. Therefore, expecting the same standards for each of them isn't going to work. |
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mufurc
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 472
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:02 pm |
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| dtm42 wrote: | | However, now that I'm here; it is not pretentious for Casey to over-analyse a show. Indeed, it is interesting to read her serious take on it. But at the end of the day, Ouran High School Host Club is shamelessly geared for the screaming fangirls (well, the Japanese fangirls, but still), and is no deeper than that. |
It's actually mostly geared for anyone who likes the shoujo romance genre and is familiar with it, screaming fangirls included. But Ouran is more than just fangirl bait, it's a very self-aware, affectionate parody of its genre, its fans and even itself, down to the last trope and cliché. Sure, it's clichéd - because that's the point.
Besides, it not a serious or "deep" show, but it's definitely not dumb. Hell, it was written by Enokido Youji, the often-overlooked man behind Utena. For all its self-awareness and lightness, it's a pretty intelligent show with just the right amount of character development for the characters that, ah, matter. It's just that it doesn't take itself seriously, knows its boundaries and never wants or pretends to be more than what it is.
(By the way, I don't know where people got that everyone falls in love with Haruhi. In the manga, maybe, which is one of the reasons why I don't care about the manga - it turned into the exact same thing it started out as a parody of. But in the anime it's only Tamaki and Hikaru - in an interview the director or the writer said that he wanted a Tamaki-Haruhi-Kyouya triangle but had to drop the idea.) |
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Julia-the-Great
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:29 pm |
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| It's not like Casey hated it. She gave it an overall B-, which I consider to be a pretty good grade. |
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TheGreatUrameshi13
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:30 pm |
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I think the reviewer missed the point completely on this one. The anime doesn't even cover half of the manga and along the way, the audience is given little tidbits that there is more to this "harem comedy" than meets the eye.
Granted it's hard to pick up on these the first time through, but if you pay attention to the subtlety (yes, there is subtlety at play here) then you'll start picking up on the overarching plot and that the characters are far deeper than the kiddie-pool cookie-cutters they seem to be. |
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konkonsn
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 163
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:43 pm |
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Everyone's talking about how Casey missed the point, um, but I think you all missed her point. Or rather, what I saw as her point. Which I guess isn't much better.
The anime IS shallow, especially in comparison to the manga. I get that the characters are supposed to represent a stereotype, but a good parody both points out cliches and then subverts them at the same time. It's not a good parody just to make a stereotype and then wink every five minutes. You're making another crappy anime. Just because you know you're making a crappy anime doesn't make it better than every other show you're making fun of.
The Ouran manga takes its time and really focuses on the characters, what they want, and how the stereotypes are both part of their character and not all of it. Tamaki is another air-headed, charismatic prince; rather than this just being pointed out and continued, there is a specific chapter that focuses on how this is a good trait for him due to certain circumstances in his life.
The anime manages to fail in these details spectacularly. Each episode feels like it's set apart from the others, as if the previous episodes didn't matter. The manga references earlier chapters and pushes character development along.
I have to agree with Casey; I love the manga, but I can't even be bothered to watch the anime more than once through because it feels so empty. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:47 pm |
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| Quote: | | If the guts of a great shoujo manga is about the social and psychological complexities of adolescence, then Ouran is a pretty, bishounen-laden package that, once unwrapped, proves disturbingly hollow. |
However, this review is of the ANIME & not the manga. If one wants the complexity of a manga, better read the manga. Very few anime bother to really follow the manga exactly & this is no exception. We lose the twins have known Haruhi since grade school. We lose that Tamaki, in his seeming air-headed fashion, put together the Host Club to actually help the members & continues to help them(or at least so far). The twins never opened up to outsiders. Kyoya, not being the eldest son, is damned to be second place in his endeavors, forced to make Tamaki look good because of their families. Tamaki isn't allowed to see his mother in the name of accepting being the heir to the family with a very harsh grandmother only accepting him grudgingly. We have hardly seen Ranka in the anime, much less his co-workers.
However, the anime DID keep that Haruhi's mom died when she was young so Haruhi has grown up on her own, not wanting to be a burden to her father trying to support the two of them. She IS disengaged from the frivolities of many in her school because she hasn't really had the chance to be a child, even though she very much is (as we see by her fear of thunder in the manga). She has no time to worry about being girly-practical is what her world functions around, so you put this personality into a mix of spoiled rich brats & get the commentary from her perspective of how stupid it all seems. However, being around the boys in the club allows Haruhi to actually enjoy being a teen which her father is grateful for. While the boys do seem spoiled, their futures are all pretty much locked down & Haruhi has more of a chance to forge her own future than any of the boys do.
The current developments in the manga, that the twins are coming to grips that their desires may compete with one another & that of Tamaki's as well as Tamaki refusing to recognize his own feelings as he tries to help his friends, refusing in a way to "grow-up" I'm sure should satisfy your desire for
| Quote: | | the social and psychological complexities of adolescence, |
Profound enough for you? |
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marie-antoinette
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2626
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:53 pm |
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| konkonsn wrote: | | The anime IS shallow, especially in comparison to the manga. |
I greatly disagree with that. I definitely enjoy the manga, but when it comes to the material which is covered by both manga and anime, I prefer the anime every time. And the only real noticeable change that I find between the two is a VAST improvement on the manga's greatest weakness, IMO, which is the idea that it can just ignore the passage of time. That's just sloppy writing.
I guess the main problem people have with the review is not saying the Ouran is shallow, but saying it like that's a bad thing. It doesn't have to be and in Ouran's case I a) don't completely even agree that it is shallow (it certainly isn't the deepest thing out there, but the characters are pretty well developed and 3-dimensional) and b) find that it perfectly fits what the show is trying to do, which is not just parodying shojo but also being a fun, light, and greatly enjoyable series.
Sometimes it's nice to have something a bit fluffier to watch.
Last edited by marie-antoinette on Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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