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ANNCast - S-E-X-X-I-S-M

There is an element of male wish fulfillment to the show with the fact that Yamada, who is represented as a popular fox, actually becomes interested in an ordinary guy, so if your attitude is that all male wish fulfillment elements are inherently sexist, then yeah, I guess YFT is sexist.

@configspace:
Assuming you're quoting yourself at the end there (and if not, whoever said what you quoted), that's an... interesting definition of sexism.

Here's what most people actually mean when they use that word:
1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
(source: Merriam-Webster)

— n
discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men

Sexism is way more than the denial of legal rights, just the same as for racism, homophobia, and any other form of prejudice. Restricting it to pure civil legal rights is a nice way of ignoring how at least 90% of prejudice operates on a social non-legal level.

I think us women complain because there is so much more animated media directed at men. It feels sexist when it really isn't. It is just what the market has delivered for the existing demand (up to now), which had largely been male. I can understand the complaints, but if women want to change this they have to do it by proving that they have a viable purchasing power, and actually pay money for shows directed at them (and the general market). Money talks. wink:

Fortunately, I think this is happening more here.

Unfortunately, not so much in Japan, where the content is made.

The one thing that really aggravates me is, that as a man, if I dare to like moe, express a sexuality, or anything of the like, my views are hyper-over-analyzed and I am yelled at for "enabling the Patriarchy".

It's tiring. You can't like hot chicks or some hyper-militiant feminisy is gonna start yelling at you.

dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:

I think your last point is the most interesting. What exactly IS to be accomplished in regard to sexism in anime? Japan is an island nation in more than a literal sense - cultural and lingual barriers continue to obstruct foreign influences, and it's not as if there's a feminist revolution brewing locally.

The one big exception to the "isolation" principle would be the mass consumption of American media. While obviously the way one audience receives a work will be different from another (nobody watched Dark Knight in this country, I swear), I think one of the best things we (and I assume you mean non-Japanese) can do is take care of our own house first. Make strong characters from marginalized groups (be they women, LGBT, racial minorities, etc.) that don't conform to stereotypes and ship them overseas.

I can't tell you what all of Japan is like because I live in an unusual part of it, but most women below a certain age where I live work. The girls I teach anticipate working. None of them answer "housewife" when I ask them in English classes what they want to be when they grow up. One of them wants to be a cop.

Polls have shown that while most young single women in Japan want to marry, very few want to do it "soon." While on a values level Japan is very sexist, on a reality level, women are becoming more independent. Hence, I think, the insecurity you see around women in male-targeted escapist media like manga and anime.

dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:

I can't help but suspect some of the more sexist aspects in anime today are related to the decay of people's well-being. How many anime nerds are poor students, working poor, or not working, AND poor? If anime was an IV drip and exploitation an opiate, the quiet misery of an isolated life might leave one frantically mashing the painkiller button...

Oh, absolutely. The innocent, naive, virginal girl who you can both lust after and get to be protector/mentor/defender? For young men without good jobs, without much hope for advancement, and with an entire culture telling them they're losers for it, this kind of self-esteem boosting fantasy must be addictive.

That's another issue to raise with moe: it exploits the hell out of guys with anxiety and massive insecurity. The need to feel something reminds me a lot of how I was when I went through a bout of serious depression. I wonder how many young men use moe instead of therapy or medication?

And yet, when we get fanservice for girls that's the equivalent of some of the male fanservice (y'know, instead of T&A it's P&A), suddenly it's all a BIG DEAL. I can't really say I'm above it either. Like LMFAO's "Sexy and I know it" video. Many giggles and gasps were had amongst friends and family (with a few being too embarrassed and walking away), and we recommended it to others as if it was some big kept secret. It's men in speedos shaking their junk. As if we haven't seen millions of women jiggling their boobs or shaking their buns all of the time. But it's still a spectacle.

For women it's different. Like you mentioned, women are more likely to be labeled as "loose" or "whores" for liking such overtly sexual stuff. For being open about sexuality. For having multiple partners. It's more socially accepted that fanservice for women revolves more around feelings, emotions, and relationships, not the overtly sexual stuff. We aren't as used to this way of thinking, we haven't been as desensitized to it. Expecting sexual fanservice for men is the norm. Sexual fanservice for women is not as common. The number of Playboy-like magazines outnumbers the number of Playgirl-like magazines. And finding porn online made for women in mind is hard (as a woman who enjoys porn, I can vouch for that).

Way to evade my argument, vashfanatic. I didn't even say men were oppressed; in fact, I went with the opposite. What I was saying was that accusations of sexism are grounded primarily in a desire to squelch liberty for the sake of a false equality or outright revenge against men, disregarding any principles of justice or individual rights. It's not okay to level specious charges against any particular man just because of "The Patriarchy."

ljaesch wrote:

OK, from the description I saw at ON DEMAND, I could tell I wasn't the target market for this series, but as someone who writes about anime, I try to expose myself to as many different things as I can. However, when I went into it, I didn't think I'd find myself wanting to throttle the main character as much I did by the time I was finished. My apologies to any fans of Yamada's First Time that read this, but I really didn't care for it, and I really have no intention to watch it any further.

Honestly, I'm not sure who IS the target audience of Yamada's First Time. It was a critical flop in Japan since the male anime fans there hate slutty girls, and in America I doubt it'll really be a hit with any demographic either.

Blood- wrote:

There is an element of male wish fulfillment to the show with the fact that Yamada, who is represented as a popular fox, actually becomes interested in an ordinary guy, so if your attitude is that all male wish fulfillment elements are inherently sexist, then yeah, I guess YFT is sexist.

....aaaaand you find the exact same type of thing in shojo reverse-harems!

-I try to evaluate these things in my head when I am feeling like something is sexist. I felt a little bit that way about Air and Kanon, where the male protagonist is there to "fix" the problems all these girls have. I start thinking "Why are these girls needing some guy to show up and, presto, their problems are solved! as if they are absolutely unable to do it for themselves!!" ---but of course, then I start thinking about how the same thing occurs in reverse harems where the female protag goes around fixing all these damaged guys...

So yeah, this "wish fulfillment" thing definitely goes both ways.

I think us women complain because there is so much more animated media directed at men. It feels sexist when it really isn't. It is just what the market has delivered for the existing demand (up to now), which had largely been male. I can understand the complaints, but if women want to change this they have to do it by proving that they have a viable purchasing power, and actually pay money for shows directed at them (and the general market). Money talks. wink:

Fortunately, I think this is happening more here.

Unfortunately, not so much in Japan, where the content is made.

It's also of note that the mangaka who created it is a woman, although I don't know how the anime might have changed from the manga.

(I put "sexist" in quotes because again, it's all BS, practically nothing discussed here qualifies as I point out in my previous post; otherwise the logical alternative being that any discussion regarding the genders qualify as sexist)

Honestly, I'm not sure who IS the target audience of Yamada's First Time. It was a critical flop in Japan since the male anime fans there hate slutty girls, and in America I doubt it'll really be a hit with any demographic either.

Yamada's First time - B Gata H Kei intrigues me. I had written it off because of what it looked like, or rather the people that it seemed to want to appeal to, and the harsh treatment that it got from some of the previews (especially by Zac and JesuOtaku), but then I read Botan42's rather approving opinion of it, yielded after having watched it with her husband. I watched the first two episodes myself and did like some of it, but felt uncomfortably ambivalent (Just the final paragraph, after a lot of groaning about Baldr Force EXE). It's also of note that the mangaka who created it is a woman, although I don't know how the anime might have changed from the manga.

I liked Yamada herself, I didn't interpret her as stupid, but as strangely naïve and misguided with wrongheaded ideas about sexuality.

I don't suppose that there is much that Western fans can do to influence anime in Japan. Our market power there is very marginal, so I suppose that 'putting our own house in order' and not patronizing the nasty stuff is the best that can be done.

When shoujo authors like good ol' Mayu Shinjo show that the girl is to be subservient to the boy