Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - A Tale of Two Dubs
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Mike Toole
 SubscriberANN Columnist  Posts: 105 Location: THE GOOD OLE U-S-A |
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Thanks for the feedback, gang - can't go into great detail at the moment, but I will say this: ADV Films dubbed the first five episodes of Gurren Lagann. I've got copies. I'll see if I can toss up a comparison of those two dubs somewhere down the road.
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I anxiously await that day, Mr. Toole. Can we at least get a cast list of the main characters?
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2545 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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The "Trivia" section of the Encyclopedia's Gurren Lagann page lists the ADV cast and staff. |
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Echo_City
Posts: 1236 |
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 ) that are well acquainted with this whole list of shows, with the possible exception of Ushio, I disagree that it would not be difficult. I know that I've never heard of "Megazone 23" or "Dr. Slump". Most all of these shows on this list are fairly ancient. I'm well acquainted with Patlabor, and thought it to be excellent, but the show is over 20 years old. I'm sure there are many more fans who are in ignorance of it than who are intimately acquainted with it.
For the "big name" shows on that list, I really only know about them because they're so old that they've been "homaged"/spoofed by so many other shows. To pick an example, Galaxy Express is a show I've never seen, and only know of due to Excel Saga. I suspect that I'm in the majority on this. I can agree that a fair number of fans on ANN have "heard the names" of these shows, but I disagree with any assertion that the same (or greater) number of fans would be as well versed in them as they are in the more modern shows, like Gurren Lagaan and Sgt. Frog, both of which had ADV dubs and as such should have been mentioned herein. I'd bet that more people on ANN have seen Gurren Lagaan than have seen Galaxy Express. While I'm not saying GL was better (I didn't care for it), I am saying that it is easier to take interest in issues with which one is familiar and has experienced more recently (ie: a few year old show versus a show from decades ago). If you disagree, which knowing how things go on ANN you probably will, I ask that you consider this: Several of the "redubs" in the article concern tiny companies that have faded from the limelight, if they were ever truly there, while the Gurren Lagaan dub issue concerns both ADV and Funimation, 2 of the biggest and most renown dubbing studios in the US anime world. Mike Toole's columns tend to be shout-outs to the "old school" anime fans, so perhaps my complaint about the older shows being excluded is considered moot, but given the subject nature of the column (redubs) and the scale of the companies involved in the GL/SF redub debacle, both shows should have certainly been mentioned. BTW hussar67, about which part do you disagree? In the interest of discussion, out of the 2 "predictions" of mine which you have quoted, with which are you disagreeing? I ask also because the suck of a Bang/Zoom dub for almost any show is guaranteed. It's not a prediction, it's a fact that you can take to the bank. As they say, you might have an opinion to the contrary, "but your opinion is wrong". There have been a few good bang/zoom dubs, I admit, but for each good one, there are nigh innumerable horrendous ones. All the good ones combined can't blot out the indelible suck of their Witch Hunter Robin dub, and they've had a decade to attempt to better themselves. This post needs a TL;DR 
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_V_
 Posts: 619 |
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I actually really like the dub for Evangelion "Death & Rebirth" and "The End of Evangelion" as much as the original TV series dub.
But there's one minor point that's kind of silly: Because "Death & Rebirth" is essentially just a clip show of the TV series to bring a movie audience up to speed (well, "Death" is, "Rebirth" is just a rough-cut of the first third of End of Eva, and thus utterly redundant with End of Eva)..... ...because its just a clip show, Manga Entertainment decided that they wanted people to have an actual "reason" to want to buy it. Maybe its because ADV actually had the rights to their own dub for corresponding parts of the original series... ...but in any case, they wanted to make it even *more* "distinct", not just copying the original. The result was that when they were redubbing parts of Death & Rebirth that correspond to parts of the original series, they *intentionally mispronounced established names and terms* to make it "distinct" and thus worth buying. In particular, they pronounce it "Evh-vangelion" even though the TV series pronounced it "Aye-vangelion". FUNimation's dub of Rebuild of Evangelion also used the correct "Aye-vangelion". Its just weird that....it wasn't that they honestly believed "Evh-vangelion" was correct, but that they intentionally wanted it to be "different". Mr. Toole, I realize its not really the same thing being a remake and all, but there is precedent with the Gundam movie remakes and such: Much of the attraction of Rebuild of Eva 1.0 for me, because it was really just a prologue/overture/introduction, very tightly reproducing scenes from the original, was the new English dub. Of course, they were the same actors but... ....given that in the old days, ADV had to make it two episodes at a time with no idea how it would end, the dub improved by leaps and bounds since the first two episodes -- even I don't think they quite found their true footing until episode 8 or so. So the great part was hearing Allison Keith Shipp and Spike Spencer getting another crack at the early episodes, which were dubbed before they were allowed to get a feel for the characters. |
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The King of Harts
Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I love you. For those interested: Brett Weaver - Kamina Josh Grelle - Simon Luci Christian - Nia Teppelin Tiffany Grant - Yoko Littner Brittney Karbowski - Kinon Chris Patton - Rossiu Greg Ayres - Gimmy Hilary Haag - Darry Jason Douglas - Kittan John Gremillion - Dayakka Kira Vincent - Davis-Kiyal Mark X. Laskowski - Leeron Monica Rial - Boota/Kiyoh Vic Mignogna - Viral Really, the only one I really dislike is Brett as Kamina. I like Brett, but I feel his voice would be too goofy. Kamina is hammy and corny and way over the top, but I wouldn't say he's goofy. Maybe it's because I'm picturing Gai Daigoji's voice coming out of Kamina's mouth, and perhaps Brett has a more toned down version, but I've never heard it and that's what I'm hearing when I think of him as Kamina. His voice is also a little high. It would be interesting to hear, though, because I'd like to be proven wrong. Also, I'd probably have Luci as Yoko, but Tiffany works. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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Well, the articles being posted on ANN, so I assume that's the target audience.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who haven't heard of some of these. To chastice Mike for making an artical for talking about them instead of GL is kind of silly in my opininon
That's really all just an assumption. Doesn't really carry any more weight then mine. But the again, you're the only one complaining that Mike's talking about stuff people probably never heard of.
I really don't see how "scale" has anything to do with what Mike does or doesn't want to include. Bandai ended up doing GL, not Funimation by the way. Mike likes doing nostalgic pieces, so that's what he puts in his articles. Arguably the entire point of this whole article is to shed light on and educate some dubs which a lot of people don't know about. This article's all about historical value. I mean, the newest entry Mike gives besies Arietty (which prompted the writing it seems), is GitS2, and I'll bet that's only because of the interesting developement for it' dub. Hell, this whole article is realy just an expansion of the "Dubs That Time Forgot" panel that Mike does at cons. Look, you can question why Mike didn't mention GL (I'm slightly surprised too, which is why I mentioned it), but lambasting the entire article just because of one omission really sucks the fun out of it, and in my opinion, really undermines and disrespects the amount of work Mike did put in, and the impressive amount of knowledge he's displaying. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2545 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Would this article really have benefitted from having those two instances being mentioned? Yeah, sure, but so would have every single other unmentioned example of redubbing, regardless of age. Mike can only talk about so many things in one article while keeping it a certain length, and Mike's articles tend to go longer than most ANN features in the first place, so complaining about a show or two not being included is pretty silly. Mike even admits that there is so much material that he could have included in this article, so you can't fault Mike for "missing" anything here. Honestly, you're just starting to sound emotionally hurt that two examples that you're more familiar with weren't included. "Scale" means crap in this article, so don't even try to bring it up as a reason why Gurren Lagann & Sgt. Frog's ADV dubs should have been included. Also, Mike might have left those two out precisely because they are so recent, i.e. most anime fans know about these redubs, so why repeat what's already known to most people? Personally, I found learning about Ushio & Tora, Street Fighter II V, & Honneamise's redubs much more interesting and worth mentioning precisely because I didn't know about them. Mike's intent was to educate and inform people about different times redubs happened to animes, so it's only natural that older anime has to be included. It's not about "shouting-out to old-school anime fans", but rather it's about Mike sharing his knowledge and trivia to anime fans in general. Naturally, this is going to result in a lot of older animes being brought up, but what's wrong with learning a little history? |
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hussar67
 Posts: 57 Location: Culpeper, VA |
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I knew ADV had dubbed the first few episodes of Gurren Lagann, but was sure they would be locked away forever or destroyed for legal reasons--it's great that you have them. As per my last post, to have two companies' different English productions of the same show (and both dubs to be contemporary with each other) to compare between seems incredibly fascinating to this dub fan. I'm afraid I must admit I've been to a few cons where you were hosting your "Dubs That Time Forgot" panel, but had never attended because I didn't know what it was about. Last time I was at a con where you hosted that panel I was waiting outside the room for the next one and watched what was going at the end through the window and saw what I had been missing. Next time I'm at a con with "Dubs That Time Forgot" I will definitely get my ass there. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Saying "Hey everyone remember [thing Mike didn't include in the column but specifically said hey guys let's talk about the stuff I didn't mention in the comments]" is fine. Being a demanding, confrontational ass who sounds like he's trying to rip down the author and criticize the column is basically the opposite of what anyone wants to see. Try being nice with your suggestions. Might help you. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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You're joking, right? Animaze, the best anime dubbing company, gave Cowboy Bebop a brilliant English dub. To think that ADV, whose only good dubs are comedies, could do better, is hilarious. Last edited by penguintruth on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NJ_
 Posts: 3009 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Fixed! |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Yeah, I don't know why I put Bang Zoom there. Though they are decent.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23770 |
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Huh, learn something new every day. I've been watching anime steadily for three years now and this is the first time I ever heard of multiple dubs for the same title. I just watched Royal Space Force recently, so now I MUST see Star Quest.
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Lightning Leo
Posts: 311 Location: Earth |
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Maybe I'm a special case, but I'm a big-time old-school anime fan.
 Not to say newer shows don't have a special place in my heart (like One Piece), but most of them really don't grab me as my cup of tea. I miss the days of some of the older dubs, like from Streamline, Harmony Gold or the Ocean Group... not to say they were perfect (plenty of censorship and script changes galore), but they certainly had their charm. A lot of VA's brought their skills from radio, too, so it sorta lent a theatrical quality to the final product. And... well, sometimes there's something campy, homegrown and personal about a small-time dub production (like the Shinesman, or Ninja Cadets! ), and sometimes great hilarity (like Samurai Pizza Cats or Mon Colle Knights).
I'm kinda annoyed by "purists", TBH. I have to admit, that dubs oftentimes change the delivery, tone and original expressive intent of the original Japanese... but that doesn't mean they can't be appreciated in their own way. I've watched Slayers in the original and the dubbed versions and love both. Purists make it sound like the original's are untouchable, and can't nor shouldn't be improved upon... which I disagree, there are some prominent examples to the contrary (the original developer of Shenmue thought the English version was superior to the Japanese version, and even had it theatrically released in Japanese theatres with the English dub and Japanese subtitles... and there's the Cowboy Bebop dub  ). Besides, no matter how good the translation, subtitling definitely loses meaning in the process anyways... so if you're so durned nitpicky about it being as close to the original as possible, then learn Japanese, I says!
Dr. Slump is great, you've never heard of it??? It's by Akira Toriyama, it was his breakthrough hit before Dragonball, Viz recently released the manga (though it's gone OOP methinks, and durned scalpers are driving up prices on some of the volumes). Patlabor's fun, too. Been meaning to watch Megazone 23, my brother's got it and told me all about it, so I know enough about it to be dangerous. 
Well, I saw Galaxy Express in high school on SciFi channel when they used to show anime late nights... man, those were the days. At first I was offput by the weirdness of the show, but after awhile of watching I realized it was something of a classic. Excel Saga's good too.
I've never watched Gurren Lagaan. I've only seen some of Sgt. Frog... and I can say, if you haven't watched enough classic anime, I'm pretty sure you can't appreciate all the hilarious classic-anime references in Sgt. Frog (like the car-chase scene from Lupin III: Castle of Cagliostro).
I really wonder if that's true, it seems like there are lots of knowledgeable familiars with the old-school on ANN... but then again a younger crowd does tend to frequent the Internets and forums more often.
There's such a wide swath of great history to explore on the subject that sheds light on our overall understanding of modern works, and I think it's an abiding appreciation for their lasting influence that drives us to acknowledge their history. If we're talking about Redubbing, I think a good article would investigate the history, or even little-known yet interesting facts, rather than linger on salient, conspicuous and well-known contemporary accounts. But there's so much history, I don't think it would be possible to cover every little thing in an article, maybe in a database website or a book.
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