Forum - View topicREVIEW: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha DVD
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grgspunk
Posts: 136 |
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What, you think the fact that a title happens to be "moe" is sufficient enough criticism? And besides, you guys said it yourself that you need to inform non-moe viewers of what they're getting into, so whether it is actually a piece of criticism is irrelevant.
And I don't see fans coming to disagree for 10 pages in a positive review for any other type of title either. You honestly think such things are somehow exclusive to "moe" titles?
If he paid more attention to his tone, wording and focus (I.E. not getting hung up twice on a 15 second piece of footage and also take a little bit of time to discuss the music he rated rather poorly), I would actually agree with you instead of accusing you of pushing an anti-moe bias. Last edited by grgspunk on Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:42 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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DmonHiro
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The whipping scene make PERFECT sense (from a directing point of view) in this series. Precia Testarossa is a deranged mad scientist, who's obsession with the Jewel Seeds make her even more unstable. In the lat part of the show, she was not even thinking straight, She sees Fate as an object, not a daughter (no spoiler from me, you'll see what I mean). Anyone or anything that gets in her way will be destroyed, so I don't see what's so strange about her abusing Fate like that. That scene tell a lot about Precia, but also about Fate, as she takes the abuse and does not complain. That is the response of a child abused by it's mother, a response that is seen all the time in the real world. Fate did not do what Precia commanded, so she was punished in a horrible and painfull way. That scene was in NO WAY fanservice, and if you see it like that, there is something wrong with you, I'm afraid. There is also another reason for Precia's abuse spoiler[She hates Fate from the bottom of her heart, beacuse she is just a clone of her dead daughter. Yes, Fate is not her child, she is just a "tool" Precia created to gather the Jewel Seeds, so she could ressurrect her true daughter. She hates Fate because she is alive, while her daughter is not] Still this it's about fanservice? About the naked lolicon scenes: Nanoha has Sailor Moon-ish transformations about 4 times in the 13 episodes. There's also a more fanservice orientated hot-spring episode, where the fanservice scenes last about 4 minutes. The rest of the episode is a meeting with Arf and a battle with Fate. Other then the transormation scene and the onsen scenes, there's almost no other fanservice, maybe a panty-shot or two I may have missed. About the story: It starts off, reall bad. But when Fate arrives, the whole "collect the jewels" thing takes a back seet, and is almost not even mentioned. The real story is about Nanoha dealing with the abused Fate, while trying to prevend Precia from digging up spoiler[ ancient magic and technology that could resurrect her daughter] About Nanoha's mature thoughts: she grew up in a familly of martial artist, and leared those values from a very young age. |
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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Slight spoilers here in regards to what Fate went thru with her mothers treatment of her but spoiler[in Strikers you actually see that it had an effect on her. She has a soft spot for kids with no parents who are in rough shape and actually becomes the guardian for several because she doesn't want them to feel like she did. ]
The scene was basically their to show you just how completely messed up her mother is and how she will do anything to achieve her goals. Like its been mentioned having her sit in the corner doesn't pack anywhere near the emotional impact of watching her get whipped by her mother and it has a plot point later with Fates familiar. Spoilers spoiler[Arf basically decides she has had enough and she will protect Fate even if she won't so she attacks her mother. Her mother nearly kills her and she retreats and is found by Nanoha where Arf explains in part what Prescia Testarossa is up to while begging her to have mercy on Fate.]
I'd still say thats the one part of his review I really agree with. her dialouge does sound older then it should be. Then again considering 1/2 the anime dialogue out there its a relatively minor point. I would not consider anime dialog to be anything close to realistic. |
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Counter Arts
Posts: 10 |
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Okay... for an anime that has this level of action, there is a lot of compassion and empathy than I normally see. It does probably pale in comparison to some other anime that is geared to complex relationships. It does squash other action titles in empathy however. The tactics is more comparable to Naruto without the long explanations and much faster battles. It has intelligence use of magical abilities where you would think "Ah, that is a smart way of using it". It does take a few episodes to get to see some of those tactics though. They are also tactics that people can follow decently well without explanation. It compares favourably to series like Sailor Moon where you see the same finishing move over and over. Nanoha does NOT have this. Nanoha also does not have all the mid-bosses you see in Sailor Moon. Also, nothing mind-numbing like trying harder/training more always results in a victory is in here. You get a bunch of good stuff drawn from various genres without the stuff that draws out those genres. |
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DmonHiro
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Perhaps, but they do say it in the anime, before she leaves her house, when she is alone in the dojo, and her sibling (or fater, I don't remember) joines her, and talks to her. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Uh, it can be both. Just because a scene in the show has a reason to exist in the narrative doesn't mean it can't also be exploitative. See, Berserk spoilers: spoiler[Caska's rape scene in the manga.] A lot depends on how the scene was directed. Personally, I don't remember much about the scene one way or the other, but I seem to recall a slight lingering on her wounds that seemed possibly gratuitous. Not enough to get me up in arms--though the transformation scenes are pretty barf-worthy--but enough that I can see how someone might get the wrong impression. |
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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If people find shots of wounds fanservicey then they can stay the hell away from me.
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DmonHiro
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Amen brother. All I was thinking during that sene, and the next one, where spoiler[Arf can't take any more and attack Precia, only to be wounded very badly] was "Poor Fate", "Is it over yet?", and "Goddamn that crazy bitch, I hope she dies by the end". In no way was I thinking "Man, Fate sure looks hot tied up and beaten like that". |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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...So...it's...a typical magical girl show, only the action scenes are more shounen-y? I'm sort of curious, how many magical girl shows have you seen? The emotional depth that you described doesn't sound to be any greater than what's in the typical shoujo action series. I can see why that sort of thing would seem pretty new and special to someone that hadn't watched much of this sort of genre, but otherwise it actually does sound a little generic. I'm going to answer the omoikane's post real quickly, since I'm starting to feel like my posts are a little tl;dr and i want to avoid too many quote boxes: -ANN's typical review format always lists the music in the review, but a lot of the reviews skip over it unless it's particularly good or particularly bad. A "c" is an average review, and since anime really has more to do with the animation than the music (unless it's something like Beck), I don't really see why the music needs to go into too much detail, since it doesn't impact how good or bad a show is typically. (If it was reviewing the *soundtrack*, it'd be different.) -I don't see how comparing a show to a good show means it can't get a bad grade, so I don't get the point you're going with the CCS comparison at all. Particularly since you didn't answer my question on if that was Carl's rating for CCS in the first place. Carl listed his reasons *why* the story was given a low grade: he thought Nanoha wasn't convincing as a girl, he thought it pandered too much to fans, that it used the same old plot twists without doing anything new with them, and the characters weren't developed beyond being archetypes. Those are valid criticisms. -If there's actually an instance of fanservice every episode...then that *is* a little disturbing, considering the age of the main characters. That seems like a valid criticism, too. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Are you saying these people don't exist? How quaint. |
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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I'm saying to assume the average reader here DOES find that to be the case is pretty offensive. It is safe to say the majority of people would not find such things appealing in any way whatsoever. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Let's look at the following text from the review you're referring to:
Now, tell me, is there a more succinct way to describe this for the end-of-review points than "moe overkill?" Given that we're talking about the early episodes of Kanon here, can anyone justifiably argue that any of what I said there isn't true? Besides, the bold-face comment seems like exactly what you were asking for, grgspunk. And I now return you to the "debate" about the title actually reviewed here. |
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Counter Arts
Posts: 10 |
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Well, I watched Sailor Moon, Pre-Cure (first season, half of Max Heart, Yes! 5), Ultra Maniac, Nanatsuiro Drops, a few episodes of CCS... Shounen-y? I don't know if it's more shounen-y or more seinen-y. I can almost say that the tactics in Nanoha is to the tactics in Gundam (Seed/Wing) as the tactics in Nadesico is to the tactics in Gundam. EDIT: The tactics are more real and practical than hand-wavey. Like I play some FPSs like Call of Duty 4 and Rainbow Six Vegas and I can relate some of my (single and multiplayer) experiences with playing those games with the tactics used in Nanoha. The amount of uses of the distract/stun-then-strike tactic is about the same. Last edited by Counter Arts on Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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To take things in a slightly different direction...
As for the "beyond her age" thing, I did see Nanoha Takamachi as quite the precocious child right from the get-go. But having seen Triangle Hearts, it made sense in the context of her family, given that her older siblings were portrayed as spoiler[having super-secret-agent ninja skills.] But even with that left aside, I saw that precociousness as part of her (otaku-targeted) charm. Granted, that's the "at-best" way to look at it, but at worst, it's no worse than 14-year-olds piloting giant robots with the skills of military-trained twentysomethings. In essence, one of those "anime" things that may not be excusable to critics, but will be forgivable to most hardcore fans. Which as everyone agrees, are the main audience for MGLN, a show that set out to do one thing (appeal to Japanese otaku) and succeeded admirably at it. Last edited by Zalis116 on Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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I find it intresting that Carl likes UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie where an apparent 8 year old girl magically transforms by kissing a 17 year old guy on the lips (with heavy emphasization on her breasts growing), yet marks down this show for having disturbing transformation scenes.
A show which other ANN reviewers have also said is nothing but a hodge podge of various elements that brings nothing new to the genre and is entirely composed of fanservice. |
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