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Hey, Answerman! - The Subtitle Will Not Be Televised


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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3525
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:51 am Reply with quote
Hmm interesting topic as always but I wish to bring up another issue why i'm not going to buy two of funi's releases. One is the localization or name changes from "bombshells in the sky" to "cat planet cuties" the other title is "b gata h kai" to "yamada's first time". I understand that funi is in the bussiness to make money off of a product I get that, anyone with half of brain would. However Why would you give titles that sound like some cheesy porno's then use descriptions which I will not even show here...

Is the marketing to bad you need to lower to such pitiful standards that sex is the only thing that will sell these titles?? Rant aside I do consider myself to be hardcore fan and our fandom alone is so split/diverse. I try my best to buy legit DVDs for show that i like such as clannad or eureka 7 then I hear about Kurenai getting a release it gives me hope.

Yeah there will always be fans out there saying "well I can get this for free why pay". My simple answer is like something why not show some support for it. Then comes the old tired logic i used to use, I'm broke or anime cost much, I hate dubs, yellow subtitles bother me...These type of fans will either wise up like i did or just leech, there is no convincing them. Welp that's it... Sorry it dragged on so long lol I'm off for the night. Cool
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bj_waters



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:38 am Reply with quote
First of all, I want to thank Brian for putting up with my long-winded answers and thinking that they're decent enough to share. I guess I like to contribute because I think I have something worth saying about the topics that these articles bring up. Thanks again, Brian.

When I read over Tashfin's response, however, it reminded me of a part of a metal documentary by Sam Dunn called Global Metal, and one of the topics he discusses is how heavy metal isn't readily available in some of the countries he travels to and how they became fans of the music through piracy. After talking to a few fans, the movie cuts to Sam interviewing Lars Ulrich (Remember? The Anti-Napster guy? THAT Lars Ulrich) and asks him how he feels about his international fans becoming fans through pirated music. His response? Well, why don't you see for yourself.

It's pretty interesting how much of a 180 this guy has done over this piracy stuff. Maybe it's just him trying to put up a good PR face, I mean, haters are gonna hate, but I still find it kind of fascinating.

So, getting back to manga and anime, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe having fansubs and scanlations ARE the forerunners to more legitimate opportunities. I don't know what it's like to live in these countries where their options are so limited in entertainment as a whole, let alone these kinds of "outsider" interests. It only proves that the situation is grayer than we think.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 2126
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:01 am Reply with quote
Wow, I can't believe you wrote "shame on you!" about people buying used anime and manga.

First of all, I don't see the equivalence of video games to manga at all. Video games has become a huge business, making just as much or more than movies per year. I don't know what right video game companies have to complain against Gamestop, but I do know that buying and reselling used goods is a completely legal practice. What is used now was bought new at some point (unless it was overstocked or damaged goods) and if there is more supply of used games than the demand for specifically new games, that's not the consumer's problem.

It is not more morally or legally "right" to purchase goods brand new than it is to purchase goods used, or to rent, or to check those same items out of a library for that matter. Saying that one type of legal acquisition is more "just" than another leads to a slippery slope argument that piracy is okay.

People actually question the difference between taking out manga volumes from public libraries and reading scanlations. Here's the difference: libraries *buy* volumes of manga. They keep track of every individual copy that is lent out, the amount of copies lent out, which series are more popular, etc. The more manga is checked out, the more copies they'll buy of the next volume of that series. They also buy replacement volumes of manga that is worn out, as long as that title/volume is still in print (one of my problems with Shonen Jump Alpha is that libraries will no longer be able to circulate Shonen Jump Sad).

The used book model is less precise but I think of it as keeping legal, legitimate copies of manga in circulation. Someone purchased this copy brand new, read it, sold it (to a used book store or via ebay) and you bought it. Perhaps that copy is out of print, perhaps the initial run of the title was limited and expensive, or maybe someone just wants to buy it second hand because it's cheaper. Whatever the case, it's legal. Do the profits of a second hand purchase go directly to the publishers, editors, and artists? Not directly, no.

But it *is* legitimate and legal, and that is a great behavior to encourage-especially because, as you note, so many wonderful titles are out-of-print. There are a plethora of limited runs and dead companies littering the landscape of our extremely niche hobby, and often second-hand is the only way you can buy an anime or manga volume to begin with.

Back to the video game industry vs. Gamestop analogy, there is a "manga version" of Gamestop in Japan- the Book-Off chain of used book stores (which have a couple of branches in the U.S.) and manga cafes. Have the major manga publishers in Japan ever raised a huge stink over them? I honestly don't know.

Movie industries have complained about Blockbuster, Netflicks and every other new thing that came along to provide consumers with cheaper (but still legal) ways to watch movies.

And now, apparently, the multi-million (or is it billion?) dollar video game industry is complaining about Gamestop.

The only print publishing companies that I can think of that actively try to reduce second hand purchases are text book publishers. And they do that in the incredibly suspicious way of releasing a "new" (nearly identical) edition of the same text book every year or two, making struggling college students cough up upwards of $100 per book every semester. But that's a whole 'nother story! Razz
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Philippe for America! He is five.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:24 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Saying that one type of legal acquisition is more "just" than another leads to a slippery slope argument that piracy is okay.


no it doesn't.

(also the rest of your post basically agrees with what i said)
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shasunatang



Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:30 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Wow, I can't believe you wrote "shame on you!" about people buying used anime and manga.


This. I hate how some people are trying to make others feel guilty for buying things used. It's not only legal, it's actually ecological. I admit old games and books probably aren't that much of a problem but still, buying used items in general is usually considered a good thing.

Also, money people get from selling their used books/games/whatever can buy new books and games so I don't see any problem here.
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potatochobit



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 1271
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:46 am Reply with quote
one thing that you didn't touch on answerman, is that anime fans in general do not watch TV at all, if they have internet video access; at least from my own personal experience.

I watch food network and project runway with the family... that's about it. So it's not just about not wanting to watch anime on TV, I just don't want to turn the TV on period (except when i'm going to use my roku or play a BD) I'm sure some people watch lost or whatever, but probably they don't channel surf as in the 80s.

In the past, when I watched anime on the computer (before streaming) the most, I also purchased the most anime DVDs in my collection, weekly. But now that I watch streaming sites, it is true I do not purchase as much but there are other factors.

mainly i quit buying DVDs because I had been waiting for the industry to make the move to bluray. I will not buy downscaled videos unless they are super cheap. And that brings us to the second issue; I am sick of being sold inferior products because japan wants to protect reverse importation. If they think they are going to sell me a product that is missing all the extras and at a worse resolution with interlacing than what I watched on crunchyroll, well they can just keep it.

and that brings us to the third issue. Anime figures are expensive and I buy lots of them... My finances are also fixed. So if you are going to sell me sora otoshimono season 2 on DVD, well you can just keep it and I'll just buy me an Astrea figure or something.

and finally, we are in a recession. the Yen exchange rate is bad. Of course, sales are down.
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ss-hikaru



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 266
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:40 am Reply with quote
Oh wow. That comic... First off it reminded me of my experience(s) trying to import Japanese CDs. If I get into a band too late, I can check CDJapan (my preferred option) if it's not there its onto YesAsia, then Brand-X then Amazon.jp. The difference though is that if at the end of it all the release is sold out/totally not available...I give up. It's pretty depressing going from one option to the other and not being able to get it in the end. But I won't pirate it >.< Secondly, GAAAAAH the whole "I want it right now" attitude really makes me angry.

I always try to encourage people to import stuff. Want stuff only available in North America? Hey, you can combine your RightStuf order with mine so you save on shipping! ^____^
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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1007
Location: Quezon City, Philippines

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:36 am Reply with quote
ss-hikaru wrote:
I always try to encourage people to import stuff. Want stuff only available in North America?


What's the import tariff like in Australia? The Philippine Bureau of Customs typically gets 20-25% (based on item price plus shipping cost) out of me when I receive overseas parcels.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:00 am Reply with quote
I agree about the TV thing. Last time I watched TV was like 10 years ago. Only reason I even have a TV is to play my Playstation 3 and Wii.
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Mankat



Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:07 am Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
ss-hikaru wrote:
I always try to encourage people to import stuff. Want stuff only available in North America?


What's the import tariff like in Australia? The Philippine Bureau of Customs typically gets 20-25% (based on item price plus shipping cost) out of me when I receive overseas parcels.


At least you Import things, instead of taking the easier way out and downloading it. I digress from that.

I liked the article as a whole. The Gamestop paragraphs opened my eyes a little bit on to why DLC and Online Passes get released. I buy used games, but only if the price is significantly cheaper than the new copy. I like owning new things. Also, I am a collector so if the used copy doesn't have the original case and the booklet I try to find a new copy. ::EDIT:: Also, on the subject of buying manga and anime, is it safe to assume that sites (Like rightstuf.com) and stores buy the stuff in bulk for a cheaper price? I ask this in hopes someone can answer this.

The answers that were sent in made me feel like I didn't put too much thought into my answer and that I used way too many quotation marks. I did like the answers that defended the scanlations because they were indeed thoughtful and the arguments held water. I am happy that it got put in the article though.
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ss-hikaru



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 266
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:42 am Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
ss-hikaru wrote:
I always try to encourage people to import stuff. Want stuff only available in North America?


What's the import tariff like in Australia? The Philippine Bureau of Customs typically gets 20-25% (based on item price plus shipping cost) out of me when I receive overseas parcels.


I think I've made a RightStuf order of $700-800 once and didn't get taxed. When I imported a bass from Japan though I had to pay duty, and from memory, the notification slip said that orders over $1000 were subject to customs tax. I can't remember how much though...somewhere between 10 and 20 percent I think?

I have a friend in the Czech Republic who gets taxed for any imports over 30 dollars INCLUDING shipping. I realise that I'm very lucky (Australia in general is a pretty lucky country), but still, I really respect people from other countries (with high tariffs) who still import regardless. Like yourself. Kudos to all you people =)
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:52 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Wow, I can't believe you wrote "shame on you!" about people buying used anime and manga.

Maybe the next step will be accusing those who exchange manga volumes witch watch other, borrow it to friends, or even let to look at the pages?
Seriously, I've heard recently that my friendly agreement about borrowing manga volumes between three friends is shameless piracy. Funny part is that the whole mess was about quite expensive, imported English and German volumes.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 8021

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:15 am Reply with quote
If we're talking about buying used versus new, what about buying new but it's so cheap that it couldn't possibly be giving anyone profit? Like when you pick some items from the bargain bin at Rightstuf, or when I got Tekkon Kinkreet, Tokyo Godfathers, and Memories for three dollars each at Big Lots. I have also bought a decent amount of used anime from one of those Gamestop-like movie stores. Sure I could have paid the higher price at other places, but I didn't, because these were so cheap. I wish I could buy even more for those prices, but it's still legal, moral, and legitimate in from any possible viewpoint; but perhaps not moral enough? Shame on me too?
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:21 am Reply with quote
I'm not sitting in sellers head, but I assume that sane person won't sell anything unless he has a profit in one form or another. That's interesting that nobody seems to have moral issues while buying on sales in supermarkets.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:39 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I know this might be "off topic" or whatever, but there was this webcomic here that made the blog rounds last week, and it absolutely incensed me. And fortunately, I wasn't the only one.


Both of you completely missed the whole gist of the comic.

Basically, you have a consumer who wishes to legitimately support the creators of a product, but the venues he uses to try and obtain legit products don't exist. After several tries, the only option to rectify the current problem is to illegally download.

While IP holders have a right to control the content as they see fit, their actions like that cause several things.

1. Lost sales due to consumers not being able to access legitimate materials in a timely manner.
2. Fan distrust as IP holders don't seem to care for the fans that helped build the series with their patronage.
3. Inability to change with the times and consumer demands.

So it's the IP holders fault for not giving the consumer what they want. If they don't want people to go illegal, offer products in a manner that encourages the consumer, not make them rebel.
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