Forum - View topicNEWS: Yu-Gi-Oh! Lawsuit Settled Between 4Kids, ADK, TV Tokyo
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Chagen46
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No sane businessman would ever do that. Jesus christ, the amount of people here who think they actually know something about businesses run is disturbing. |
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Sunday Silence
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Do I need to bring up the ANN articles that display KAHN!!!!!!!!!!!'s stupidity? |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Sunday Silence was hinting at how bad at business Al Kahn was. He made it his personal goal to prove that his company's way of localizing was the only way for the company to function. Millions of wasted dollars and a bankruptcy appeal later shows that maybe cancelling faithful DVDs that were profitable wasn't a good business decision.
Last edited by ArsenicSteel on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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Actually, he made it his personal goal that the only way stuff from Japan would come to America was if it was heavily edited and localized. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Nobody played a card game to save the world or determine the fate of mankind in the original version of Yu-Gi-Oh. That was a dub insert. Every antagonist had a different motivation in the original, but the dub pretty much made every antagonist out to conquer the world because it's simple and allows the dub writers to dumb down the villains to one dimensional cliches.
What does this have to do with anything? All I've said is the Japanese companies who make these shows actually put effort into them, while 4Kids does not. Just because it's a series to sell toys doesn't mean it can be thrown around and treated like crap and have to suck: look at pretty much any mecha anime like Gundam, or any tokuatsu show like Kamen Rider. |
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PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2025 |
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Who knows what went on in Alfred Kahn's crazy mind. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about his BS any longer.
The 2003 TMNT cartoon would like a word with you. You gotta admit that that was a pretty awesome series. It was much more accurate to the original comics than the 80s/90s series was, and retained a nice balance of humor and drama. It was also pretty dark at times. The art design and voice acting was also fantastic. It's probably the best thing 4Kids has ever done (to be fair, the series was a co-production with Mirage Studios). |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Well, in terms of marketing affecting the story I felt that show really fumbled all the way through. At it's best, it was introducing pointless gimmicky things for them to use (monster catching suits for those underground episodes) and at it's worse it pretty much threw everything before that certain in the trash and just changed everything (Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward, Back to the Sewers, and so forth.) and ultimately the writing suffered for it. Shredder kept coming back and relying on him (even when it became just the old tengu Shredder or some super holographic cyber Shredder for some arbitrary reason) and ultimately it never got a real ending and left a lot of stuff unresolved. Especially the Fast Forward stuff where they just pull the plug and go back to the present because the ratings dropped without resolving anything there. It didn't feel very planned out or focused and you never knew what the point of the show was since it had no clear goal. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4378 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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Then i guess you have to be 13 years old cause only kids at that age would like the horror that is 4kids. Am I right? It's true that I am an english dub only person at heart, but what they do is a complete disgrace. the only exception was pokemon , but that series was meant for kids in the first place , & doing one series right doesnt forgive the massive destruction of others. and it's the cause of it that gave the massive increase of fansub groups and fansubs. i would gladly watch a animax asia dub of every anime 4kids licensed. over the crock they spill cause at least their professional. but my question is HOW IN THE HOLY HIGH HELL DID THEY DODGED ANOTHER ONE??? What is it gonna take to finally put the horror that is 4kids six feet under before they damage the reputation for english dubs completely? |
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PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2025 |
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You're in the minority. The series has a great reception with fans. Many love it as much, if not more than the original series (which many people thought was too silly). I didn't notice any major plot holes. Maybe a few, but all series have at least a few. The series did get a proper conclusion with Turtles Forever, which was intended to be a "finale movie". I thought is was a very well done crossover special (my only problem is that they didn't get the original voice cast back for the 80s/90s Turtles, but most of the soundalikes did do a decent job). It seems to me that you're just finding stuff to complain about. I mean, c'mon, 4Kids isn't my favorite company (far from it), but we can all admit that even they've done a few things right over the years, and their Turtles series is clearly one of them. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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Figuring out if one of the more prominent staff members is a pedophile? |
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Primus
 Posts: 2761 Location: Toronto |
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Don't kid yourself, One Piece is a merchandise driven show. Most anime is made to push some kind of merch, be it action figures, video games, or DVDs and manga. The difference between the likes of say, Dinosaur King and One Piece is that DK was made with the idea of simply selling toys. There was no artistic vision at the core of its makeup like there is for One Piece. Just money. If you don't believe me, then I ask you this, how come Dragon Ball Kai, an insanely well-rated TV series in Japan was canceled? It often stood toe-to-toe with One Piece despite Kai being an edited version of a show still airing on Japanese TV. Heck, Kai's replacement, Toriko is a brand new production and pulls in considerably less viewers. So how come Kai was canceled? The artistic vision proved to be a success once again via TV ratings. Kai was canceled because merchandise sales were plummeting. People stopped buying the video games in Japan, and people stopped buying the Goku action figures. The problem with 4Kids tackling One Piece is one of content, not concept. The content in the show wasn't suitable for the 10AM Saturday morning FOX venue 4Kids initially gave it. I guess both Toei and 4Kids looked at Dragon Ball Z, despite going through a similar treatment of bizarre edits, and attempts at culture erasing was a huge success and wanted to emulate it. What both failed to realize is that expectations for an anime broadcast, and its dub had since changed considerably due to the proliferation of bi-lingual uncut DVDs, and fansubs. A dub tailored towards the likes of Toonami at the start would've been better received than one tailored to the bizarre place that is Saturday Mornings on FOX. |
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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You make a good point. the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise was intended to be a regular manga/anime series. but when demand for a real card game like they played in manga/anime skyrocketed, the creator for obvious reasons decided to grant that wish. as a result, the focus was on the cards, and therefore the whole franchise was revolving around the cards. But the creator understood that this creation of his wasn't intentionally to just sell trading cards. which would explain why the show applied themes, styles, and seriousness from mainstream anime, despite the fact it became a way to promote new cards. If 4kids wants to take an anime to solely to show off merchandise, then pick up shows originally made for that purpose. That's why I thought Pokemon was great for 4kids, a show solely created to help sell merchandise. 4kids is definitely medieval when compared with much of the anime industry. their editing policies were probably be more acceptable in the 90's, when anime was viewed as this "new, exotic" show from across the world. But as anime became familiar with the West, most companies adapted to the changing times and changed their editing practices to keep their business going. 4kids refused to change and now their pretty much bankrupt. any connection i wonder? Ultimately 4kids is like Kaiba, by screwing the rules (particularly the rules of social darwinism). Like species, 4kids is one of many anime companies, but hasn't changed and adapted itself to its surrounding environment. Natural law dictates that anything that fails to adapt tends to die out. 4kids is showing the signs of dying, yet they haven't completely died out. with the situation they've been in for the past few years, they should've collapsed at least a year or two ago. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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That's one way to spin it, I guess, but compared to Pocket Monsters and Yu-Gi-Oh, I'd wager the 2003 TMNT cartoon is in the minority when it comes to worldwide popularity. That's why FF and BTTS seasons existed, trying to jump-start falling ratings. I wouldn't say those show very good 'effort' on their part, in addition to Chaotic being a Flash show at the start before ultimately failing and fading away. Doesn't really matter if 'fans' like it if those 'fans' can't keep it alive.
I think you grossly misuse the term 'artistic vision' if you find it to be mutually exclusive with market-driven shows. A lot of people here seem to really think they are, though, which is kind of sad. You can easily make the argument they're one in the same. The fact you have highly detailed figures of Yu-Gi-Oh and One Piece and Pocket Monsters, is that purely a merchandise money grab, or can it also be seen as appealing to high end collectors and fans of the franchise? Image songs as well.. they're easy money, but isn't it also creative and inspiring to have characters sing and brings life to them and makes them seem like they have a lot of effort put into their characters. What about opening and ending themes which are beautifully orchestrated pieces of music and update which each event in the show? Wouldn't cheap synth music that only lasts like 30 seconds like 4Kids does be cheaper? On the flip side, how does One Piece have an artistic vision when the creator extended it past it's original ending date of 5 years as soon as the money poured in? Does that mean it's a soulless sell out marketing show? There's always two sides to a coin. |
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jr240483
Posts: 4378 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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Good Point. But they've dodged so many bullets that it feels they have the devil's luck on their side that it's starting to get ridiculous , cause they were massively desperate to keep the license for the series. All of the good companies like Geneon & CPM goes six feet under , yet some how, some way, god forsaken awful companies like 4kids and Nelvana still breathe by an inch. It feels like the industry is in some kinda Twilight Zone of some kind , and it's DEFINITELY NOT a good thing. |
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PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2025 |
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Ironically, 4Kids did help market both Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! outside Asia since almost every non-Asian dubs of those series are based on the English dubs. I'm not saying that played any major part in those series' international success, but it certainly didn't hurt (although in Tokyo Mew Mew/Power's case, it did hurt it, since most of the world got canceled dubs).  I don't know much about the 2003 TMNT series' overseas success, but I do know that it's been dubbed into at least a dozen or so languages.
The FF series was created to simply put the series in a new direction. It was more similar to a long story arc, but it worked. B2TS was done when FF ran it's course. Remember, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! had also fallen in popularity after they had both been on the air for several years (as is the case with any long-running cartoon).
As for Chaotic, I was never a fan, and was too old at that point to know any who were. I watched a couple episodes. It seemed like a knock-off of Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! (especially YGO). I know nothing about that series' popularity. Although I can tell you that the card game was created by a Danish company.
Nelvana's doing decently. They've only ever licensed 3 anime titles (only one of which could be considered "good", and another was a co-production), and have created some great animated series over the years. They also market Fairly Odd Parents outside of America. Yes, their dub of CCS sucked, but it was actually KidsWB that edited the hell out of it (Nelvana actually dubbed all 70 episodes, although it was still edited, just not AS edited. Hey, it's still better than KidsWB, and at least we got an uncut subtitled release from Geneon, and bilingual releases of the two movies, one of which had a GREAT faithful dub). 
Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:33 am; edited 6 times in total |
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