Forum - View topicREVIEW: Black Jack GN 5
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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I agree: people fawn too much over Tezuka. I've gotten that especially reading Pluto, where the postscripts just spew over how absolutely fantastic Astro Boy was, seemingly unwilling to admit that Pluto might actually be (gasp!) better. It gets a little nauseating.
Tezuka's manga was influential, entertaining, and inspired an entire generation of great mangaka. But really, heap the exuberant praise where it's due, on works like Buddha and Phoenix. It's there that Tezuka really shone, not in his long-running series. |
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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I know this is an anime/manga site, but I'm not sure we can definitely say that 
Surely Stan Lee or some other American gives him a run for his money. ^^; |
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Fallen Wings
 Posts: 160 Location: Australia |
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Ah yes.
I'm one of those people who are collecting this series *points to the four volumes on shelf* Admittedly I haven't got the fifth one yet but I plan to. The reason why this is the only series I'm collecting is because I'm really quite fond for Black Jack. Not in the love sense but the overall series is quite well done. I find myself able to go back and re-read the stories easily as they are separate from one another. Actually it is a funny story. I kinda walked into a shop, bought the first volume and walked out going "Why do I have this in my hand?" Sure some stories are hit and miss but some are really, really well done. I remember in volume two there was a story named "Needle". I read it then realised I had finished the chapter already. It was such a fast paced chapter I was amazed at it. I haven't read the fifth so I can't comment on it but the overall series is great. (Or maybe it is my love for surgery that I find it so appealing) (Also over here in Australia it only cost me 5- 10 bucks more, so not much money wasted) |
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IAmZim
Posts: 15 |
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In what sense? Stan Lee helped make some beloved characters, but re-reading his work now the writing is seriously dated, with characters constantly stating whats going on in the plot, and the stories are just as hit and miss. Infact, I'd say most of the things which made characters like Spiderman so appealing and fresh was Jack Kirby's involvement. Tezuka on the other hand invigorated comics in Japan, his stories created a whole new generation of fans who would make manga the thriving industry it is today. Not to mention that his stories still hold up really well, whether they are best taken as pulp entertainment, or as fancy shmanzy, "I'm reading buddha as I sip my caffe latte in starbucks, talking on my bluetooth headset as I talk about how revolutionary it is." Black Jack is a great example of why you don't have to be a douche to enjoy Tezuka. |
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Vertical_Ed
Company Representative
Posts: 278 Location: New York, NY |
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Actually you get somewhere between 40 to 70 more pages for each volume of Black Jack compared to Dororo. Dororo is also appropriate for a younger, and equally larger, readership. Each Black Jack release features 12 to 15 short stories of varying length and like all of our recent releases features designs by Peter Mendelsund. And yes who else in the North American manga world has matted and embossed covers featuring spine art...only Vertical. I don`t think it`s a bad thing. Our licensing partner Tezuka Pro approves of the efforts we put into making the Tezuka releases some of the best produced comics releases out there. With manga prices in general going up across the the board we won`t be raising the price of Black Jack, and given the page count and production values (everything from the translation, print quality, and packaging) paying a couple dollars more might be worthwhile to get a classic from a master. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Personally, I think Black Jack is his best series, and it's a little elitist to assume that people should only "praise" Tezuka when he's working on "deep themes". Black Jack the most fun to read to read of his work, and appeals to people of all ages (I could barely read Astro Boy). I love it when he sucker punches me out of the blue with an emotional finish. (One of my all time favorite chapters is when Pinoko tries to attend high school) It's unique among shounen manga because it often shows that the hero doesn't always save the day, and of the reoccurring characters, there are no villains. Kiriko is a personal favorite of mine--where else would you find a series aimed at teenagers that explores the idea that euthanization is a double-edged sword, but not one that should be taken off the table entirely? I appreciate the work Vertical has put into the series, and really don't think the series is "overdressed". It's lovely to read and look at, and I'm proud to have all the volumes on my shelf. You might as well complain about my lovely hardback Japanese editions. |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Whoah - not saying that Black Jack is bad, or that you shouldn't say what's good is good, even if it's not "deep." Notice I said exuberant praise, not just praise. The longer a series runs, the more likely you are to get "slush," as the reviewer called it. All I'm saying is, reviewers shouldn't feel obliged to praise every story and justify every flaw just because Tezuka holds such an exalted position in the mangaka pantheon. I personally agree with what was stated above, that the uncontested statement that Tezuka is the "greatest manga writer ever" is, well, wrong. I'm not sure there even is just one greatest mangaka. Tezuka should at least share the place with Otomo Katsuhiro, Urasawa Naoki, and any number of others. Even so "dethroned," he's still the absolute pioneer of manga, who practically created it from scratch. Does he really need to be the best of all time when he's got that accomplishment on his resume? (On a side note, I am so sick of the word "elitist." It gets thrown at anyone who disagrees with you; they don't like what you do because they're "elitist," which means you can just reject their opinion. It's not just on the forums here, it's all over the place, including the public sphere. I'm about to ready to lobby its temporary removal from the English language, just to force people to not be so dismissive of their opponents.) |
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The Ramblin' Wreck
 Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
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Buy it on Amazon, where I got it from, for $11.50.
Amazon Prime, I love thee so much. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Look, the Black Jack stories aren't printed in chronological order. A lot of the "slush" the reviewer was talking about is actually from closer to the beginning of the series. Not every Black Jack story is great literature, but they're almost always entertaining in one aspect or another. I don't really have an issue with the review itself. As much as I like Black Jack, it's not perfect and neither is Tezuka's work--for example, I just mentioned that Astro Boy is neigh unreadable for me. But this weird backlash about Tezuka that's been cropping up on this site is just strange. I don't know anyone or any site that feels like they have to praise Tezuku simply because he's Tezuka. It comes across as a ridiculous straw man to me.
Tezuka's scope is pretty much unmatched by any mangaka today. There are certainly people out there that can do most of Tezuka's themes better, but I can't think of a single person in the manga industry who does so many so well, and has been as much of an inspiration to a Japan's manga industry. In that respect, I don't see where the problem from labeling Tezuka the "greatest" comes in. He's not my favorite mangaka or anything, but I have no problem recognizing his accomplishments for what they are.
Oh, how thoughtful of you to allow him to "share" the place beside someone who is more famous for their role as an director than a mangaka and a person who has trouble even ending his manga properly.  Otomo has done some brilliant work, and I like Urasawa a lot despite his flaws, but neither of them has had an impact on the industry on the same level as Tezuka. Neither of their works has the same breadth of themes as Tezuka. Where are their Adolfs? Their Phoenixs? And, yes, their Black Jacks?
I mean, if you had at least thrown Hagio Moto, or Yamagishi Ryouko out there, I could understand your point, but Otomo and Urasawa? Really? |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than a master of one |
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GATSU
Posts: 15306 |
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I guess it's Carlo's turn to play Casey's "piss off the fans and scare off newbie readers" role.
Because he's the reason for many popular series you read nowadays?
What's hip about a surgery operation? 
And how's that any different from a Viz release?
Of course, the irony of your comment is that no one actually considers Black Jack heroic; they relate to him, because he's a flawed person who manages to do good, when needed.
Yeah, and so is Death Note. What's your point?
Because you can't have a masterpiece which is also entertaining. Just ask Chaplin and Pixar.
I'm guessing those are more about the direction than the conclusions.
You do know that this wouldn't make any money at $9.99, right? And that Vertical has to sell it during a manga market downturn? Oh, and Amazon is your friend.
Dororo had a movie and video game tie-in which got released here, while the last time Black Jack anime was on R1 DVD was when CPM wasn't bankrupt. The only boon for Vertical is that it might actually get more sales out of the manga, now that Crunchyroll's uploaded the tv show.
Who says the latter theme doesn't show up in Black Jack? And if I cared about the fate of the universe, I'd read some boring American comic which reboots itself every time someone popular dies in an epic fight. vash:
I actually think Pluto's worse, in some ways, because Astro gets pushed to the sidelines in favor of Gesicht, even though it's an expansion of an Astro Boy manga. Not to mention those allusions to the Iraq war which really come off pretentious, given that we still haven't ended it.
Um, Phoenix is a long-running series. It was drawn over a thirty year span of his life, and never actually finished. Tofu:
Stan Lee's a decent and talented guy who must really love the medium not to be retiring at his age. But he doesn't seem to be willing to expand beyond the superhero genre. Vertical:
And 100 more pages than the Viz versions of the manga which charged you the same price, and which weren't even in publication order. Plus, if you can find the HCs, you get some of the "banned" chapters.
Urasawa is a manga-ka who recycles his character designs, and, other than Yawara, keeps going back to the same mystery stories. And while I love Otomo, he clearly can't do a Steamboy or Roujin Z as effectively as Akira; Tezuka, OTOH, was able to shift from Princess Knight to Kirihito with little effort. musouka: I'll have to disagree with you there. I think yanki manga owe a huge effing debt to Akira, while Otomo's art style clearly gets copied and pasted a lot, particularly in Gantz. But I do agree that Tezuka's is probably more obvious on less prominent titles. Last edited by GATSU on Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Those were just the first two that popped into my head, hence the "any number of others." Thanks for adding two more names. Clearly we're operating under different definitions of "greatest." you mean it to be "most influential." Fine. But that doesn't mean best. I consider that to be at the nexus of a large variety of factors, including art style, storytelling, and character creation. Osamu Tezuka was great, but he's not the only great. Why do we have to one single "best"? Why do we have to be monotheistic when it comes to the gods of manga? And frankly the whole deification of Tezuka is part of the problem. He's the God of Manga, hence he cannot be criticized, cannot be improved upon. It's a downright ridiculous position to hold, really. Also, I've yet to be disappointed by any of Urasawa's endings, so I don't know what your problem is there - and I'd take his cinematographic style over Tezuka's cartoon drawings any day. But honestly, I don't feel like arguing with you over something that's mostly a matter of taste. I like Tezuka's work a lot, I do, I just get sick of the idol worship. :-/ |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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The review reads like a reaction to the general praise set aside for Osamu Tezuka, rather than the content of the book itself. Carlo references a repetetitive structure to the story, and points out stories that don't have properly-defined morals and/or messages -- all only in one paragraph out of six. There's a few other direct references to the content itself (sans the art, which Carlo does a fine job of covering), but it seems inconsequential. Not exactly a substantial examination of the volume, suffice to say.
I think this thought...
... sort of epitomizes the review as a whole, in that it's only concerned with a constant assurance that, while ridiculously influential and important to the creation and development of modern Japanese comics, Tezuka wasn't infallible and didn't take himself 100% seriously. Which is, uh, stating the obvious. Mind you, I'm not exactly a devoted fan of Tezuka. I've read all but two of his series available in English -- Astro Boy and Dororo -- and generally like his long-form, ambitious works a lot (Phoenix, Buddha, Adolf) but don't can't really attach myself too much to them. I like MW well enough, but find it too flawed and jumbled; also don't care much for Apollo's Song. (Shouldn't even have to mention the charming yet overtly dated shorts that Dark Horse has published.) Yet, despite all of that, Black Jack is the one work by Tezuka that I unconditionally love. It has a maniac vision that allows Tezuka to come up with whatever crazy-shit situation that he wants. Even the lesser stories that stick to the predictable format Carl references pulse with that type of energy that makes them just as readable as the others. The moralizing found in the likes of Phoenix and Buddha is more consistently tempered by that madness in Black Jack, achieving a balance that makes both more patatable. Definitely agree with musouka that it's the best series from him that I've read. In fact, since Naoki Urasawa and Pluto have been mentioned: I personally find it more tiring to read the constant praised delivered to Urasawa's works. I like Monster, 20th Century Boys and Pluto a lot, but the fanatical adoration delivered so frequently is devoid of any admission of his faults: the all too often forced attempts at mystery and obnoxious fallback on melodrama. Plots are strained as long as possible, always with Very Cryptic Dialogue From The Shadows and near-omnipotent villians. Use of "close-ups" become utterly redundant. EVERYTHING is a big deal, and he clinically goes through these side stories with emotional manipulation just as an end, yet never with any of the self-awareness and humor that Tezuka utilized. (Which is more or less corrected in the first two arcs of 20th Century Boys, where Urasawa fits the frame of nostalgia as a way to bring a sense of sincerity AND character relevance to the plot in a way lacking in his other mystery works.) Last edited by HellKorn on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Anime World Order
 Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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Speaking as someone who just got done hosting a panel entitled "The Absolute Worst of Osamu Tezuka" at Anime Boston, I think I speak for several people when I say--and this is true for a great many posts you write--what the hell are you talking about? The entire gekiga movement was launched out of criticism of Osamu Tezuka! People don't blindly worship the guy to the extent you claim. Not even in America; take it from me, most anime fans in the US don't even know his name. The majority of Tezuka fans I encounter gladly acknowledge that not everything the man made was great. In fact, he made spectacular failures (look up "Animerama" and get back to me), and a lot of his earliest manga works don't really hold up. But that's because nobody knew what was going to work and what wasn't until he tried it. For his unsurpassed contributions to the medium, there is and will be only one "God of Manga": Osamu Tezuka. I'll gladly concede that not everything he did was great...but at the same time, it's pretty damn hard to use Black Jack, one of his single most beloved characters, as your supporting argument for that. (Unless of course you're using clips from the LIVE ACTION Black Jack.) |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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The production values and price of Black Jack are broadly in line with prevailing standards in the alternative / literary comics market and I'm guessing that's the market it's being aimed at.
Some of the otaku types hereabouts might not like that - there are certainly some people on this board who see any manga that doesn't perfectly match the average Tokyopop release in terms of size, cost and aesthetic values (or lack thereof) as some sort of elitist personal affront to their fandom but it makes perfect sense from Vertical's point of view. Across-the-board book sales have been down every month this year (source) and manga sales in particular are in free-fall (down 17% to 2005 levels according to the latest data - source). Sales of non-Japanese graphic novels, on the other hand, are actually up 5% on the previous year (ibid). So if you have a manga with crossover potential, why wouldn't you focus your marketing of it on the growing number of mostly adult, mostly relatively affluent alt-comics readers who are used to paying more for their books rather than to a shrinking, predominantly teen demographic with strictly limited resources? Also, it's not just Vertical - D&Q, Last Gasp and Fanfare (amongst others) take the same approach to their manga releases and so do Viz and Dark Horse when they feel the title merits the treatment (Tekkon Kinkreet; Sexy Voice & Robo etc.). Viz's recent Signature and Media imprint releases have been put out in larger, higher quality, more expensive editions and if that works out for them, we're only going to see more movement in that direction (at least as far as adult-orientated manga goes and, regardless of their original Japanese audiences, Tezuka's works in English certainly fall into that category). The self-cannibalising "license everything - these guys will buy any old crap if it's Japanese" manga bubble model is broken (it took 5 or 6 years for Toren Smith of Studio Proteus fame to be proved right but it was inevitable that he would be in the long run). Companies like Vertical going after a smaller number of more carefully selected, high quality, well-produced titles designed to sustain and grow a stable, long-term readership has to be a good thing. It's a necessary evolution (and, for bibliophiles, an entirely welcome one) - we need less chaff and more wheat, even if the wheat costs more. If I was going to take Vertical to task for anything, it would be for not making the entirety of the series available in hardback - the first three limited edition volumes of Black Jack are things of rare beauty... ---
Says "by Carlos Santos" at the top of the page. Other than that, I'm entirely in agreement with what you and Anime World Order have said. |
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