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dtm42 wrote:

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

Futhermore, we're not obliged to consider the author's intent.

Very true, if you are just reading/watching it for fun. But you simply cannot consider the true meaning of the work (for example, analysing it in a scholarly sense) without at least trying to consider the author's intent. Even if you never find out what the author actually meant because there's not enough evidence or whatever, then at least hypothesise based on what you know of them and their views.

Why is it important to know what the author meant? Because all works exist for at least one reason, and finding out what that reason is is vital if you actually want to critically examine the work. Maybe the author just wrote some meaningless mumbo-jumbo in order to draw a paycheck. Does that mean that anything people see when they look at said work is rendered moot or incorrect? No, not at all. However, it would be wrong of anyone to say "this work means this, this and this" based on just their own perceptions, unless that person qualifies their answer.

I don't believe that whatever the author intended should be treated as gospel, but I also strongly oppose any attempt to ignore the author whenever a critical examination of their work is undertaken. As usual, the best position to take is somewhere in the middle. I believe an author should be - at the very worst - "first amongst equals".

I don't disagree with anything you said. In my earlier post, I only used the word "obligated" to mean that we don't *have* to consider the author's viewpoint: that the choice is ours to make just how much or how little of the author's intent we should take into consideration, just as you said.

Personally, I agree that we ought to at least consider the author's intent, and we should try to make an effort to grasp what the author was trying to say in his story. I suppose it depends on how you are approaching the work in general. Sometimes, I think, a story can be enjoyed/considered purely on its own terms, with no consideration for anything outside of itself: the intent of the author is unimportant and would distract from the purity of the story itself. For this to work, the story has to be pretty captivating and well-told. In this approach, you're not asking yourself, "What did he mean by using this character, or that scene, or that plot device?" You are within the story, absorbed and captivated by it; the technical aspects are unimportant.

As an example, I remember watching and really liking the original Superman movie (yeah, I'm old). Then, some years later, I took a tour of Universal Studios, and they had a set where they showed how the flying scenes in Superman were done, plus one for the original Battlestar Galatica, and Jaws from the first two Jaws movies. After that, I started thinking, "I wonder how they did that?" when watching various shows instead of just enjoying them for what they were.

So, yes, identifying a character by type can be useful in some ways, but IMO it is better to just appreciate the character on its own terms and to try not to get caught up too much in categorization. As I said, this is easier to do with well-done characters, but if someone is determined any character can be deconstructed, but in doing so I think something is lost in the process, so I try to avoid taking that route... at least while I'm actually watching it. Maybe later, if I want to develop a wider appreciation for the work as a whole I might do that, but at least initially I want to try to experience a story on its own terms without using external labels or technical analysis.

I just to thank everyone who came to my defense. While I do understand the idea of "stock characters", unless the characters are extremely one-dimensional, I usually don't notice that much. Many characters, especially the ones I love, are more than just stereotypes.

As for Maka, she reminds me of Hermione from the Harry Potter series. I can't help but wonder if she was the inspiration. A serious, studious type who tries to hard to be perfect; that's how I'd describe Maka. She's a good fighter and a good friend, as well.

Of course, I did notice the influence of Twin Peaks when Soul meets with that demon in what looks like the Black Lodge.

Blast me all you want for liking an overused archetype, but I like meganeko's. Don't really know why, just do.

naninanino wrote:

Character being a -dere does in no way make that his/her most defining personality trait. For some stock characters maybe, but this is just a common way to describe characters among anime communities. Some may use other means like Myers-Briggs type indicator, which isn't really an end be all method either. I don't get why some people get so aggressive over this.

Agreed. I often use the dere terms to describe a bunch of characters because that's a term I'm fond of and find easy to use. I also don't see why someone would rather look at the character's archetype than the character itself unless you're doing some sort of research. But then again, anime might as well be a form of study for some.

And this is why while my favorite personality type is yandere, my favorite all time characters aren't. On the female side for example, I have Amber, Suou, and Yin from DTB; Mai (Ghost Hunt), Sasha (Lost Canvas), Kanade (Angel Beats), Senjougahara (well, partly yandere) & Tsubasa (cat mode), Mio (K-ON!), Kyoko (Skip Beat), Kurisu (Steins;Gate), Alice (Aria), Sora (Kaleido Star), Ferris (LOL Heroes), Kenshiro with boobies (Moribito), and my mind goes blank. So, yeah, besides personality type there's still a whole bunch of factors, and it's not like yandere gets a supreme preference on my part. Thankfully, since good yandere is a rare breed.

Now imagine if I had all these girls in my harem? GAH! Just trying to imagine it makes me feel like I've been drugged.

rinmackie wrote:

...As for Maka, she reminds me of Hermione from the Harry Potter series. I can't help but wonder if she was the inspiration. A serious, studious type who tries to hard to be perfect; that's how I'd describe Maka. She's a good fighter and a good friend, as well...

Funny you should say that. I've often thought that Hermione was the inspiration for Rin Tohsaka, though I think Rin is better (in the series, at least).

OP's return yo! I've been doing finals on my second half of first year law school. Forgive me for not posting. (You can thank insomnia for my presence now!)

I hope everyone feels free to talk about any personality type or just describe what kinds of personality traits they like. It wasn't my intention to make anyone feel like they had to be pigeonholed to the -dere archetypes. I only used Yandere because it truly does describe my favorite. (I'm also rather partial to Tsunderes but Yanderes are the best.)

egoist wrote:

Richard J. wrote:

For me, my personal favorite personality type is the Yandere.

You stole my line. I also enjoy yangire (Higurashi) nearly as much.

Okay, are you my long lost twin or something? We end up agreeing on a lot of threads.

I mean, even Yangire love!

If your top 3 girls from Higurashi are Shion, Rika and Rena, I'm going to start wanting some blood tests. Wink

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

Hmm... I mean, what we're talking about here really ignores the difference between anime and real life. If you like a character type in an anime, wouldn't you like that same character type in real life? Maybe not all the time, but most of the time I think you would.

Actually I'd be quite happy with a Yandere as a girlfriend in real life. Loyality is really the most important thing to me when it comes to a person's personality and the Yandere archetype is psychotically loyal. Sure such a person is a little dangerous and possibly murderous but they're like that because of love! Twisted Evil

I mean, when I was reading Future Diary (may it be licensed by another company now that Tokyopop's going bye-bye) and I kept thinking "I wish a girl like Yuno would fall for me." I even kinda like the idea of being stalked. Embarassed

Yeah, I've got issues. Laughing

Scormio wrote:

Blast me all you want for liking an overused archetype, but I like meganeko's. Don't really know why, just do.

Actually would you mind elaborating on the personality aspects of the meganeko? I've always thought it was more of a visually style than a personality type. (Not judging or denigrating, just seeking more opinion.)

Last edited by dtm42 on Thu May 12, 2011 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total

Richard J. wrote:

Actually would you mind elaborating on the personality aspects of the meganeko? I've always thought it was more of a visually style than a personality type. (Not judging or denigrating, just seeking more opinion.)

This is just my opinion, obviously, but I like Meganekko because of the stereotype/fantasy that girls who wear glasses are smart, kind, calm (i.e. not hyperactive), and have more self control over their emotions. Oh, and because they're oh so cute.

I saw a young mother in the library a while back who looked and acted like a real life early-twenties version of the girl in the image above. Da~amn. The New Zealand military should weaponise that, pronto.

I'm not sure I have any favorite personality type. As long as the character stays true to it's character and (depending on the show at hand) is given at least some form of reasoning why the character acts like he/she does.

Take tsunderes for instance, I usually hate this character type, because anime is flooded with weak forms of this type. But I still love Taiga (Toradora) and Asuka (NGE), because I think they're both very well portrayed characters overall.

I guess one type I usually like is the comically outrageous and over-the-top characters, like Morita (Honey & Clover), Hananakajima (Sexy Commando), Tamaki Suou (Ouran High School Host Club) and the entire cast of Gintama.

Richard J. wrote:

If your top 3 girls from Higurashi are Shion, Rika and Rena, I'm going to start wanting some blood tests. Wink

Never thought about my favorite characters from Higurashi, but you're right. There's a clear difference between how much I like those 3 and the other 2.

egoist wrote:

And this is why while my favorite personality type is yandere, my favorite all time characters aren't. On the female side for example, I have Amber, Suou, and Yin from DTB

And yet, the first three people you list cover all the -deres

Tsundere: Suou
Kuudere: Amber
Yandere: Yin

There's also Kyoko under yandere or tsundere. There are probably other examples, but I'm not familiar enough with the other anime to comment.

Raftina wrote:

egoist wrote:

And this is why while my favorite personality type is yandere, my favorite all time characters aren't. On the female side for example, I have Amber, Suou, and Yin from DTB

And yet, the first three people you list cover all the -deres

Tsundere: Suou
Kuudere: Amber
Yandere: Yin

There's also Kyoko under yandere or tsundere. There are probably other examples, but I'm not familiar enough with the other anime to comment.

I'm confused why you're bringing this up. He said that though his favorite character type was yandere, his favorite all time characters aren't, so you bringing up a tsundere and kuudere is kind of... proving his point.

And I wouldn't consider either Yin or Kyoko to be yandere, though Kyoko does have a few yandere-ish traits.

Last edited by egoist on Tue May 10, 2011 2:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

All deres? I was talking about yandere, not the whole dere tree.

I can agree that Suou is tsundere, but the main Yin isn't yandere, and that's the one I like better. Though I do certainly feel attracted to her dark side much like I'd be attracted to a good yandere. And Amber, not sure if she's any of those types. Kuudere means cold outside, but Amber tends to joke and befriend a lot, to the point Evening Primrose liked her that much. I'd argue that she's more of a yandere than anything else considering her actions, but even so, I still wouldn't apply that term to her.

The only one I wouldn't hesitate in calling yandere there is Senjougahara. But then again, she's more like a parody of the whole moe affair.

Though I must admit that I forgot quite a bunch of Type Moon characters. One of them is probably just as close to yandere as Senjougahara.

Of course I'm totally not opposed to having yandere attached to my all time favorites (heck I'd love that), but they're so rare. There's at least one tsundere in like every anime out there nowadays (didn't IS have at least 3 of them, and how about the main heroine of Freezing, and so on). So to rephrase it, while my favorite personality type is yandere, my favorite characters aren't mostly due to the low quantity. One good way to explain this is the amount of tsunderes in my list. It's not that I adore tsunderes (rather, I often find myself annoyed), it's more like with a pool of a single type to pick from the chances of having a quality character emerging is much bigger.
If I do focus on a huge list of say 50, I'll likely have at least 5 yan deres/gires there, which would be a low number compared to something like 20 tsunderes, 10 kuuderes, and 10 random ones.

I'm taking a look at the list of anime from this season.

OreTsuba could have a yandere somewhere, but so far nothing apparent or worthwhile enough to even be apparent, though I've already spotted a couple of tsunderes. Hoshizora got a tsundere, a kuudere, and a bunch of dumb or shy girls. World God Knows already had 2 tsunderes this season. Battle Girls has one tsundere (the secretary or whatever), and though there's potential for some yandere, none of it has been used. Not watching Qwaser yet, Tono and Gintama is nule. Moshidora has one kuudere, while Astarotte's Toy goes without saying. Iroha has one tsundere, and man, she's totally true to her roots. Dogs Days standard moe cast with one tsundere and the rest unclassified by me. Gosick, tsundere heroine. No one cares about Beelzebub. Can't figure Nichijou properly, but I guess the girls are mostly dumb for the parody.

space

Cardfight kuudere shopkeeper. Aria is, well, another that goes without saying, although there's a yandere there completely underused (I've seen minor characters appearing more frequently in the series). Anohana god knows, 1 kuudere and whatever else. C 1 tsundere, 1 kuudere, and 1 girl who has a boyfriend. Shaft god bless whoever tried to classify their characters. Tiger & Bunny 1 tsundere as well.

And, ugh, that's enough.

Now to yandere I've seen so far.

A Channel has a little brat. She annoys me like hell. You could say she's very similar to the girl with a grating voice from Railgun.
Deadman Wonderland still missing characters from the opening, but it has potential for some tasty yandere/yangire. So far I'd totally call Shiro a yandere.
Hen Zemi has a yandere. But we've seen about 20 seconds of her yandereism for 5 episodes. Not sure if that counts when most tsunderes are on screen 50% of the time.
Steins;Gate. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anything yandere so far. The potential is there, but because I don't want to spoil it I won't dig around. However, it has an excellent tsundere.

Mad_Scientist wrote:

I'm confused why you're bringing this up. He said that though his favorite character type was yandere, his favorite all time characters aren't, so you bringing up a tsundere and kuudere is kind of... proving his point.

No, it does not. I need only find one yandere in the list to counter the claim "my favorite characters aren't yandere." The rest is for amusement.

As for whether Yin is yandere, I can think of few characters who are more extreme examples. After all, she spoiler[developed a world-destroying personality from trying to protect Hei.]

Raftina wrote:

Mad_Scientist wrote:

I'm confused why you're bringing this up. He said that though his favorite character type was yandere, his favorite all time characters aren't, so you bringing up a tsundere and kuudere is kind of... proving his point.

No, it does not. I need only find one yandere in the list to counter the claim "my favorite characters aren't yandere." The rest is for amusement.

As for whether Yin is yandere, I can think of few characters who are more extreme examples. After all, she spoiler[developed a world-destroying personality from trying to protect Hei.]

Is that what happened to Yin? Darker than Black season 2 was so incomprensible as far as her character "development" went that I spoiler[couldn't tell whether she was evil, or insane, or possessed, or some combination of them, or something else entirely.] I still need to watch the Gaiden episodes, maybe they make it clearer.

Though it seems now that Egoist has clarified that he meant the "main Yin," which I assume means the Yin of the first season, before her change. spoiler[Or maybe it refers to one of her personalites, if she's got multiple ones, which she might.] Sheesh, now I'm reminded of Darker than Black 2 and am I'll depressed again.

Raftina wrote:

No, it does not. I need only find one yandere in the list to counter the claim "my favorite characters aren't yandere." The rest is for amusement.

Why would you want to counter that claim? I've edited my post above explaining why I said my favorite characters aren't. And I said "my favorite characters aren't yandere", which could also mean that the number is too little to represent a notable portion, or I'd have said "none of my favorite characters are yandere".

Although you won't find any in the list I wrote.

Raftina wrote:

As for whether Yin is yandere, I can think of few characters who are more extreme examples. After all, she spoiler[developed a world-destroying personality from trying to protect Hei.]

You can argue that. But wouldn't she rather be considered a kuudere? Sure, if you admit that a spoiler[split personality] exists, something else classifies the former and most prominent side, and that something else is most likely the term kuudere. Not rocket science if you compare her to Haruhi's Yuki. Yuki is widely considered kuudere, but does creating all that crazy stuff in the movie spoiler[just to be a normal girl by the protagonist's side make her a yandere] now?

Again, wouldn't that also apply to spoiler[Amber? She tried to kill everyone in Tokyo for Hei.]

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