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No listing, one-liners, or blanket generalizations. Put reasons.


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Tris8



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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Location: Where the rain is.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
Am I asking for too much in the form of one measly sentence with a little bit of logic or reasoning?
Definitely not. I'd say all of those people just don't read the rules, and it sucks. Putting a list down like that, especially when you've put once of your [EDIT: No listing. Put reasons. -TK] warnings down earlier in the thread shows that they obviously haven't read any of the thread except maybe the title. I know I've had that trouble in the past where people haven't read the OP and post an off-topic reply going just by the title >=(

Thanks TK for doing a great job moderating. I know if I had your job I would've pulled my hair out by now Anime hyper
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Riddley wrote:
Americans are ingrained to follow the rules. That's not the same in other countries/cultures.

I think what concerns me is that of all the forums I've visited, moderated, or ran in my time I've never seen so many threads be locked. Even back in the early days of the WoW forums the mods were never as lock happy.

It's not really about "following the rules" for me, but more so that I consider reasoning as a common courtesy. Getting back to the commercial I linked, the significance of it is that even at such a young age with a topic as outlandish as dual-eyed laser beams, if you like something, or in this case want to talk about something, any kind of reason can suffice. Whether or not people agree with your opinion or reasoning is totally subjective, but at least making a case with whatever you believe in is what I'm trying to promote.

As humans, for all the things we like or dislike in the world, we'll always have our reasons. They might not be sound or eloquent reasons, or maybe they are, but I feel it's important that people be able to express themselves for all the positive (and I guess the occasional negative) so that ideas can be exchanged, people are given the opportunity to expand/explore their minds through the interactions of others, and maybe even say they had fun in the process.

The locking is more just an embodiment of consequence, but my intention is never "stop people in their tracks and make them go away" (unless they're just really cantankerous asswipes), it's to say "sorry, try again."

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
I wish I were being facetious here, but I'm not. The sheer intelligence of people trying to carry an online conversation is being lost, and it's ridiculous.

Don't take my word for it, go take a look at comments on many forums anymore. Most of them are simply one-liner opinions without reasons for the opinion.

(*sigh*).. Yeah, as much as I love to talk about movies, IMDb and Blu-ray.com are so overrun with one-liners and off-topic banter, that I'm really disheartened I can't discuss anything with anyone through all that crap. I think this is why I put so much effort into my movie/Blu-ray reviews, or even some of the discussion threads around here. It's a bit of a "half blog, half discussion" approach I take, but it's gotten to the point that I've become so offended by the lack of netiquette that I often end up writing way too much and scaring people off (like my Mushishi thread, which I should damn-well try to finish one of these days Mad! ).

But yeah, like the point I made to Riddley, by essentially promoting people to think for themselves, no matter how simplistic the reasoning, it's my intent to try and galvanize some kind of brain activity, which in turn, can possibly contribute to (or maintain) an atmosphere of intellectual stimulation around here.

And all it takes is a reason.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:43 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
All the regular Forum-goers know to put reasons, so there's no excuse for us. You should only be tolerant of newbies. I think if a person has ten or more posts, and they make a list without putting reasons, then their entire post should just be deleted. Users with less than ten posts should get their offending post edited to include your message of no listing. Some people will find this harsh but I say tough tits to them, they should have known better. You've given out plenty of warnings after all.

This will be my official policy from now on.

Plus, I get to say "tough tits!"
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Tony K: With the last sentence, I would add "Acquire some wits" as really it's not that hard to write reasoning within a post.

I agree with you that one liners or listing really doesn't add much to any topic, but I really don't understand why this is prevalent though.

Makes me wonder if this also translates to how a person communicates in person as well. As a person who has attended college, I can honestly state that no professor, even the most relaxed personal would accept any paper that was laden with one liner sentences that don't provide any crucial detail and don't provide any substance on the material either.

I doubt any boss would accept the answer to why a person wants to work for the company they applied to "just because" and hire them either.

Maybe there is a difference between generations, but I figure given that Anime News Network is a forum that more people would be more apt to express their opinions on any given subject matter. Maybe not always in the most eloquent fashion, but I digress.
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Tamaria



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:03 am Reply with quote
Is it always wrong to post lists?

When responding to someone in the manga recommendation thread, I can often think of atleast half a dozen titles he/she might be interested in, if not more. When that's the case I'll describe one or two suggestions in more detail, but I'll post a list of the other ones (with links to the encyclopedia or wikipedia). So, is that a faux pas as well?
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:59 am Reply with quote
Listing doesn't seem to be the real problem. The problem is people not giving reasons. As long as you put some effort - like, a sentence or two - into talking about why each item is on the list, I would personally consider that okay.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:00 am Reply with quote
If possible, some kind of detail would be appreciated. Even a single statement per recommendation would suffice. A post that is nothing but a list, however, would be in violation. For instance:

---------

Based on your preferences, I'd recommend:

Bleach -- Supernatural shounen with a fairly complex hierarchy.

Hellsing -- It's something of a quasi period piece in the sense that the organization's values and both the protagonist and antagonist are from a forgotten time.

Tenjou Tenge -- The art is fantastic and it's a great mix of gritty martial arts action and guilty pleasure ecchi.

(^ This would be considered a good effort)
----------

Basilisk
Berserk
Claymore
DBZ
Love Hina
Monster

(^ This will get deleted)
----------

I won't always go looking for list posts. But if I find them or if someone reports them, I'll do what has to be done. This thread is just to spread awareness of the fact that it's against the rules to begin with, that it shouldn't be that difficult of a thing to fix, and that you may or may not face my wrath at some point.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:31 am Reply with quote
I am going to assume that the nature of this thread makes it exempt from the necroposting rules.

Tony K. wrote:
EDIT: Have to keep updating the link, 'cause YouTube is a douche.

I have been seeing, and been annoyed by, more and more posts that are nothing but a link to a video, with no explanatory text at all. Sometimes I can guess at the nature of the video because of the context of the thread, but it is just a guess and sometimes it can be way off.
Sometimes the video is nothing but the equivalent of a stupid "face palm" GIF.

Anyhow, should those posts be reported?
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:37 am Reply with quote
Absolutely.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:35 pm Reply with quote
I'm trying to consider my options and limitations for this rule.

As most of you know, I hate the Talkback sub-forum because it's filled with so many crap-posts: one-liner'd and mostly unsupported praises/rants, people arguing/bashing over superiority/inferiority of personal preferences, hot button topics that devolve into flame wars over something *completely* off the original topic, and so on.

I get that this is the Internet and that people can say whatever they want with almost total anonymity, 'cause that's just the nature of the beast. So what I'm looking for is "a threshold." What sounds like a good place to draw the line?

Teh Rules say:

Quote:
Above all else: Be Polite

[...]

3. Discussions should carry some measure of intelligence to them. Consider if what you are writing is relevant or important to others. If it does not contribute to the discussion, then do not post it. Please post detailed answers to questions; lists and one-liners do not contribute.

4. Swearing is frowned upon. If you disagree with a poster, disagree respectfully, or do not disagree at all.

For the most part, my personal inclination is to address the posts that can/do create problems. People that obviously feel like trolls, are super-confrontational or mean about their opinions, resort to personal insults, name-calling, etc. Those are the ones I try to look out for the most. 'Cause who wants come here just to argue with or be bullied by some unrelenting dickhead?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that element of incivility has been around since the dawn of humanity, but we only have so much control over that in the real world. As a Moderator, though, I know I have the power to make more of a difference, here, in this community. I know I could go Old Testament and delete every one-liner I saw, but that's obviously a little on the extreme side. On the other hand, I don't want people taking advantage of the leniency, and then still call us Mods or the rules some kind of hypocrisy.

Attending to overtly negative posts is a given. But what do ya'll suggest about the other stuff?
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:46 pm Reply with quote
We could always create a one line wall of shame to go along with the excessive quoting one lol. Sort of serious and sort of joking on this. I know I report one liners when they are more ignorant, rude, passive aggressive, or add completely zero to the conversation. Reporting every one line in the Talkback section would require me to quit my job and do that like a full time job every day. Which is ANN wants to pay me $25k a year with retirement to do it than sure sign me up. Since I figure I have a better chance of winding up in bed with Rachel Weisz I'll stick to my method of reporting.

Beyond a possible wall of shame maybe more moderator warnings in threads would suffice. I feel often a handful of such posts derail entire threads or suck out any depth from them. Most times there is no moderator presence unless things get heated. So perhaps mods should simply post more warnings and then lock threads. Deleting every one line is honestly futile in my mind. However giving a thread wide warning to "add more depth" can be done. If users don't add a 2nd or 3rd sentence then just lock the thread. That way no users can claim they were unfairly targeted as no posts were deleted, barring they are inflammatory of course or violate another rule, and the moderators presence is felt more in that section. Given the amount of one liners I think that's a better idea, and less time consuming, than a 2nd wall of shame. That would turn into a panorama of shame.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
I know I could go Old Testament and delete every one-liner I saw, but that's obviously a little on the extreme side. On the other hand, I don't want people taking advantage of the leniency, and then still call us Mods or the rules some kind of hypocrisy.

This can be a bit tricky, but I think that you need to be lenient at times because it definitely is possible that one line might be all that it needed. Sometimes just one word might be all that is necessary.

One problem is that others might indeed accuse you of hypocrisy because of that.
On the other hand, do you want to force people to post more than is necessary? If a few words are all that is needed should I add a dozen or so words that are not needed, just to avoid posting a one-liner?

Personally, I think that the one-liner should be allowed if it conveys all relevant information. But there is that pesky hypocrisy issue.

One-liners would probably be sufficient only in reply to a question. So you could make that an exception to the rule.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:06 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I think I'll avoid doing another Wall for this one. There'd just be so much maintenance work required in keeping up with it >_>.

I was thinking more along the lines of reading the posts and considering the context, as Touma pointed out. Sometimes a statement of excitement or jubilation is really all that can be said or is needed to convey a general idea. Maybe the line should simply be drawn at the "intent" and, occasionally, "quality," depending on the circumstance.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Maybe the line could also include the quantity. Example, you have 8 one liners in a single page. Yes they add all intent needed but now they're becoming repetitive. What are your thoughts?
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:28 pm Reply with quote
Sure. Track record and posting history can also be considered. There's one guy I put on Moderation who's annoyed me since I joined the site because all he ever posts are one-liners.
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