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walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 am
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Fencedude5609 wrote: | And they are /still/ dwarfed by the number of male-oriented productions.
How can you even argue this point! Its obvious on its face! |
That tells me the market is dictated by who's dumping in the most money. There doesn't have to be 40 new series every three months. If otaku bought less otaku-oriented anime, those show numbers would come down and and things would even out between male, female, kid, and neutral, like what was common before the late night model took off. But it doesn't mean those other numbers would go up, likewise.
Is X otaku-oriented anime occupying a finite slot, or would that slot have not existed in the first place?
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:49 am
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kuroko no basuke proves this type of show can sell and it can be very popular with girls. I wonder if this will get death threat letters from ANN community people.
Any question is why all the main characters' names only have 3 Kanji characters and girly names too? really 七瀬 遙(Nanase Haruka)?
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championferret
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 765
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:49 am
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eyeofthetiger wrote: |
Fencedude5609 wrote: | Misogyny version of "some of my best friends are black people" |
The "misogyny" card,again.
Yeah, that NEVER gets old. |
You see, it SHOULD be old. We shouldn't HAVE to use it and the only reason we do is because misogyny is still a thing, and one running rampant in this thread.
Also 'my female friends are happy with the shows they have! So they shouldn't need any more!' Do you actually read the things you type? Do you sit and think 'hmm, maybe I shouldn't be saying women don't deserve a show just for them just because they have a small number shows already. Maybe, just maybe, it may make me seem like a whinging dudebro who is sad that 80% of anime caters to his penis instead of 100%.'
If men feel """uncomfortable""" about a show that may (may!) feature male fanservice, then GOOD. I HOPE you do. Because maybe, just maybe! you'll understand how it feels to be female and be an anime fan or hell a fan or just about anything. If I can deal with countless shows, many of which are favorites of mine, suddenly shoving boobs in my face or a sexualized scene of a junior high school girl or any other example of the blatant male gaze included solely to boost sales, if I can learn to deal with it so it no longer bothers me (because we all know any woman it bothers is just an 'annoying feminist', right?), if I can learn to ignore the fact that so many female characters nowadays are created solely as wankbait... Then you can man the hell up and do so too when it happens with your own gender instead of carrying on like some kid who ate five candy bars and then threw a tantrum because his mother made him give the last one to someone else.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:02 am
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A++ Would read again.
Exactly that.
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phoenixalia
Joined: 20 Dec 2011
Posts: 1408
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:54 am
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championferret wrote: |
You see, it SHOULD be old. We shouldn't HAVE to use it and the only reason we do is because misogyny is still a thing, and one running rampant in this thread.
Also 'my female friends are happy with the shows they have! So they shouldn't need any more!' Do you actually read the things you type? Do you sit and think 'hmm, maybe I shouldn't be saying women don't deserve a show just for them just because they have a small number shows already. Maybe, just maybe, it may make me seem like a whinging dudebro who is sad that 80% of anime caters to his penis instead of 100%.'
If men feel """uncomfortable""" about a show that may (may!) feature male fanservice, then GOOD. I HOPE you do. Because maybe, just maybe! you'll understand how it feels to be female and be an anime fan or hell a fan or just about anything. If I can deal with countless shows, many of which are favorites of mine, suddenly shoving boobs in my face or a sexualized scene of a junior high school girl or any other example of the blatant male gaze included solely to boost sales, if I can learn to deal with it so it no longer bothers me (because we all know any woman it bothers is just an 'annoying feminist', right?), if I can learn to ignore the fact that so many female characters nowadays are created solely as wankbait... Then you can man the hell up and do so too when it happens with your own gender instead of carrying on like some kid who ate five candy bars and then threw a tantrum because his mother made him give the last one to someone else. |
this person is my hero.
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Maidenoftheredhand
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2633
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:22 am
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Excellent post Championferret!
The way people act because one show is stuff they may not like in one season is ridiculous. If you don't want to watch fine but there is no need to say women are content with what they have (funny how the people saying that are not women) .
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:28 am
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championferret wrote: | Crowning Moment of Awesome |
/thread
(because no-one can top that)
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st_owly
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 5234
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am
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championferret wrote: | Crowning Moment of Awesome |
You just won at the Internet, madam.
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DissonanceCog
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 11
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:41 am
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championferret wrote: | Awesome |
And thus this becomes a thread in which everything that needs to be said about the matter is said in a single post.
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18185
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:34 am
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I'll also tag in my agreement here, and I hope that post puts an end to the whining about Free! There have been many occasions when I've enjoyed a series but at the same time thought that there's no way in hell I'd show it to (or recommend for) a female viewer, so I've never understood why a few prominent series that might make guys uncomfortable to watch are such a big deal.
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Shiratori1
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:29 pm
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dtm42 wrote: |
Moe is a feeling and a fetish* and cutesy character designs and a genre. Some people liked the feeling so much that it became a fetish for them, and they wanted to buy works that invoked the feeling. Producers and editors and game designers catered towards this demand by coming up with character designs and scenarios that deliberately sought to invoke Moe feelings. Thus with all these similarly-aimed works a genre was formed.
It's the fact that Moe means different things - and that some people apply the term too narrowly when it has evolved to mean much more than just a feeling - is the reason for much of the confusion and argument around the term. Yes, it was once just a feeling, but that was a decade ago. With Key attempting (and succeeding) to invoke it in their Visual Novels, even longer.* |
Nonsense. ANYTHING (whether it is within the Anime universe or not) can become a fetish if a person who likes that particular thing or subject becomes obsessive about it to a certain level. It is unfair for people to single out "moe" as a fetish considering how broad the definition of "fetish" is (if you are going to call moe a fetish, you might as well call everything else (Anime-related or not) a fetish). Additionally, the idea that all of the individuals and companies that produce works that feature "moe" are doing so without any honest interest in telling the stories that they are telling and are just "pumping the stuff out" solely on the basis that it's "moe" and it will sell is absolutely ridiculous and truly only reflects cynicism, anger, and jealousy held by the anti-moe lobby (particularly outside of Japan) based on their nonsensical opinion that "moe-type" shows are "blocking" their favorite types of shows from being made.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:37 pm
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Shiratori1 wrote: | the anti-moe lobby |
Funny you should mention that, I have an appointment with Senator Kanoko-chan (R, MI) on Tuesday that I managed to book by donating heavily to her campaign using funds from the Family Strength Campaign superPAC I founded a few years ago to further the cause of the Anti-Moe Lobby. I intend on discussing our legislative agenda, which is the repeal of the Moe Fan Rights Act of 1993 and potentially the elimination of the 28th Amendment, which states "The right of citizens of the United States, who love moe girls above all else, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of moe."
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Rahxephon91
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:40 pm
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Not really seeing how that statement is nonsense.
You wana tell me that all those shows are produced without the sole intent of making money? That they aren't cynical productions. Then why so many shows that feature the same types of character designs, the same types of settings, the same kind of characters? Why do we get a Last Exile 2 seemingly invaded by these conventions? Because it is whats popular today and what makes money. If it didn't, I bet more then half of these "moe" shows would not exists.
I mean few of us here know anything about the actual behind the scenes production. So we can't say the people behind them don't give a crap about them, but likewise I find it faulty to argue the other side. And I bet it's pretty delusional that the people behind these shows always give a damn.
but hey I have a bias.
Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shiratori1
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:43 pm
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ArmchairTitan wrote: | Hilarious, and also sad. Does watching any form of entertainment involving characters with the same gender as you make you feel just as insecure?
Try less knee-jerking and more open mindedness and you'll find that there is lot's of great entertainment out there that, shockingly, doesn't actually require you to reassess your sexual orientation to enjoy. |
The SAME argument could be made towards female fans who will balk at and avoid a show because the majority of its characters are cute females and it features a slightly-notable amount male-oriented fan service(pure hypocrisy).
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Shiratori1
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:44 pm
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Zac wrote: |
Shiratori1 wrote: | the anti-moe lobby |
Funny you should mention that, I have an appointment with Senator Kanoko-chan (R, MI) on Tuesday that I managed to book by donating heavily to her campaign using funds from the Family Strength Campaign superPAC I founded a few years ago to further the cause of the Anti-Moe Lobby. I intend on discussing our legislative agenda, which is the repeal of the Moe Fan Rights Act of 1993 and potentially the elimination of the 28th Amendment, which states "The right of citizens of the United States, who love moe girls above all else, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of moe." |
Are you really THAT bored pal?
Rahxephon91 wrote: | Not really seeing how that statement is nonsense. |
When someone believes in something that is nonsensical they tend not to believe that it is nonsense.
Last edited by Shiratori1 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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