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REVIEW: Sailor Moon GN 8 -10


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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:30 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Guys, remember, the original Sailor Moon manga and anime releases were pretty much concurrent.


That too.
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:58 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
but it was the only thing that was similar between the anime and manga, in the end they turned good.


What was similar? They had better development in the anime than the manga. They were one dimensional and lackluster in the manga, spoiler[and destroyed within mere moments of their actual attacks on each of the girls]. I just read it earlier this week. What are you talking about?
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roseversailles



Joined: 13 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:33 am Reply with quote
This is easily an instance where I like manga-Chibiusa more than her anime counterpart. She's actually kind of likeable here, understandably frustrated at her age and maturity and her desire to advance and taste a bit of what Usagi has, to become an equal. She comes off as bratty in the anime as she repeatedly harps on this point, whereas the anime actually uses personal narration to give her some voice and garner sympathy. I feel like the final battle is less engrossing than in the anime, as that EPIC showdown in THE FREAKING SKY is pretty hard to top Smile However, this preps us for the final arc, which is also tied with the "S arc" for my personal favorite spot~

On that note, we also get bishie human form Artemis for a glimpse, so...yay!
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roseversailles



Joined: 13 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:43 am Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
Nico1924 wrote:
The Amazon Trio was just an excuse for more and more filler episodes, none of them getting inspiration from the manga. There is almost nothing similar between the TV and the manga versions, except the characters and the big lines (Nehelenia wants to get Pegasus).

In the anime, the Amazon Trio just hangs in a bar, watching pictures of their victims, go to hunt them "disguised" (and these stupid Sailor Senshis met them several times and never recognized them :S ).

The only development they got was that they wanted to have dreams like humans and Fish Eye helped Usagi and Chibi Usa.


One of the more interesting flaws of Super S was its lack of subplots. Sailor Moon always had a subplot or two to keep things interesting outside the main plot. The first arc had Nephrite's romance with Naru, Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask's identity crisis, Mamoru turning evil, the hunt for the silver crystal, and the search for the Moon Princess, and the gathering of the soldiers. R had the Soldiers getting their memories back, Usagi and Mamoru's reunion and breakup, Chibi-Usa's hunt for the silver crystal, etc. S had Haruka and Michiru's search for the holy grail and Hotaru's budding friendship with Chibi-Usa (Not much need for subplots in this one since notably there's a LOT of main plot). Super S' designated subplot took the form of Chibi-Usa and Pegasus' budding relationship. How much could they have moved the plot? Chibi-Usa's just a kid (and far less powerful than she was in the corresponding manga arc; why make the bell her sole weapon?) and Pegasus is an illusion. Not that the brewing conflict is really FELT. The Dead Moon is content to target one person at a time, while its leader and army of monsters faff about (Zirconia's like the Lothor of the Sailor Moon anime), so the closest we get to an 'interesting' subplot is the designated trio villain developing their victim's trap every week while the soldiers faff about and occasionally wonder why a flying horse comes to help them in every fight. Luckily this changes once the Quartet comes and Super S rights itself by having more fights and more episodes to develop the main plot. I like it for what it is, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't.


I agree with this immensely. I never really considered how the level of subplots dwindled considerably for season four. I realize Ikuhara was having fun with all of the "dream outings" between Chibiusa and Pegasus, but the monsters of the week were weak (no pun intended), and the main cast was reduced to give focus to the budding romantic friendship between the two. However, I really liked the villains of this season, a lot more than with the Dark Kingdom. The Amazon Trio were generally entertaining and, in the end, borderline sympathetic, the Amazoness Quartet were fun, and Zirconia was creepy while Nehelania was enjoyably crazy Very Happy They were more dynamic than the Dark Kingdom to me, at least as far as camp value and sheer entertainment level can go. However, I think the problem comes from the fact that they follow such formidable and threatening foes (Tomoe, Mistress Nine, etc.) that they come off as unsatisfactory. They feel like a reversal of the darker matter that came before them, which can cheapen the storyline's potential for drama and effectiveness, as you indicated (apparently this was done to rope back in the younger female audience that had started to stray). If we ever get our new anime adaptation (which seems to be a ways off in the distance Rolling Eyes ), I really wonder if they will manage to elevate the Dream arc above its previous anime counterpart? Will they be able to maintain a more even amount of drama, comedy, and character development?

And for that matter, will they keep the Outer Senshi in the plot? Always hated them being cut out and excused with a brief little tv special Sad
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GracieLizzy



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Sunderland, England, UK

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:53 am Reply with quote
Princess_Irene wrote:
GracieLizzy wrote:
I suppose it proves the point that I'm an obsessed Sailor Moon fan that it bugs me you've labelled this the "SuperS" arc, when that was an anime only title (though yeah TokyoPop used it as well) the manga calls this the "Dream" arc. Eh I not really that bothered but I did still feel the compulsion to point it out.


It was a conscious choice - I went with the title that I felt most people would be familiar with, which was, as you pointed out, in large part due to the original TokyoPop releases.


Yeah fair enough I thought it was likely, as I said, more my fault for being so durn nitpick-y that it very mildly got under my skin.
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Princess_Irene



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 898
Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:38 pm Reply with quote
GracieLizzy wrote:

Yeah fair enough I thought it was likely, as I said, more my fault for being so durn nitpick-y that it very mildly got under my skin.


No worries. You should see the levels of annoyance that a period-incorrect costume in historical fiction can provoke in me. Laughing
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 965

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:46 pm Reply with quote
roseversailles wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
Nico1924 wrote:
The Amazon Trio was just an excuse for more and more filler episodes, none of them getting inspiration from the manga. There is almost nothing similar between the TV and the manga versions, except the characters and the big lines (Nehelenia wants to get Pegasus).

In the anime, the Amazon Trio just hangs in a bar, watching pictures of their victims, go to hunt them "disguised" (and these stupid Sailor Senshis met them several times and never recognized them :S ).

The only development they got was that they wanted to have dreams like humans and Fish Eye helped Usagi and Chibi Usa.


One of the more interesting flaws of Super S was its lack of subplots. Sailor Moon always had a subplot or two to keep things interesting outside the main plot. The first arc had Nephrite's romance with Naru, Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask's identity crisis, Mamoru turning evil, the hunt for the silver crystal, and the search for the Moon Princess, and the gathering of the soldiers. R had the Soldiers getting their memories back, Usagi and Mamoru's reunion and breakup, Chibi-Usa's hunt for the silver crystal, etc. S had Haruka and Michiru's search for the holy grail and Hotaru's budding friendship with Chibi-Usa (Not much need for subplots in this one since notably there's a LOT of main plot). Super S' designated subplot took the form of Chibi-Usa and Pegasus' budding relationship. How much could they have moved the plot? Chibi-Usa's just a kid (and far less powerful than she was in the corresponding manga arc; why make the bell her sole weapon?) and Pegasus is an illusion. Not that the brewing conflict is really FELT. The Dead Moon is content to target one person at a time, while its leader and army of monsters faff about (Zirconia's like the Lothor of the Sailor Moon anime), so the closest we get to an 'interesting' subplot is the designated trio villain developing their victim's trap every week while the soldiers faff about and occasionally wonder why a flying horse comes to help them in every fight. Luckily this changes once the Quartet comes and Super S rights itself by having more fights and more episodes to develop the main plot. I like it for what it is, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't.


I agree with this immensely. I never really considered how the level of subplots dwindled considerably for season four. I realize Ikuhara was having fun with all of the "dream outings" between Chibiusa and Pegasus, but the monsters of the week were weak (no pun intended), and the main cast was reduced to give focus to the budding romantic friendship between the two. However, I really liked the villains of this season, a lot more than with the Dark Kingdom. The Amazon Trio were generally entertaining and, in the end, borderline sympathetic, the Amazoness Quartet were fun, and Zirconia was creepy while Nehelania was enjoyably crazy Very Happy They were more dynamic than the Dark Kingdom to me, at least as far as camp value and sheer entertainment level can go. However, I think the problem comes from the fact that they follow such formidable and threatening foes (Tomoe, Mistress Nine, etc.) that they come off as unsatisfactory. They feel like a reversal of the darker matter that came before them, which can cheapen the storyline's potential for drama and effectiveness, as you indicated (apparently this was done to rope back in the younger female audience that had started to stray). If we ever get our new anime adaptation (which seems to be a ways off in the distance Rolling Eyes ), I really wonder if they will manage to elevate the Dream arc above its previous anime counterpart? Will they be able to maintain a more even amount of drama, comedy, and character development?

And for that matter, will they keep the Outer Senshi in the plot? Always hated them being cut out and excused with a brief little tv special Sad


Great point. Nehelenia is small potatoes compared with the massive extraterrestrial threats the soldiers have come across.
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mangaka-chan



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:07 am Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
roseversailles wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
Nico1924 wrote:
The Amazon Trio was just an excuse for more and more filler episodes, none of them getting inspiration from the manga. There is almost nothing similar between the TV and the manga versions, except the characters and the big lines (Nehelenia wants to get Pegasus).

In the anime, the Amazon Trio just hangs in a bar, watching pictures of their victims, go to hunt them "disguised" (and these stupid Sailor Senshis met them several times and never recognized them :S ).

The only development they got was that they wanted to have dreams like humans and Fish Eye helped Usagi and Chibi Usa.


One of the more interesting flaws of Super S was its lack of subplots. Sailor Moon always had a subplot or two to keep things interesting outside the main plot. The first arc had Nephrite's romance with Naru, Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask's identity crisis, Mamoru turning evil, the hunt for the silver crystal, and the search for the Moon Princess, and the gathering of the soldiers. R had the Soldiers getting their memories back, Usagi and Mamoru's reunion and breakup, Chibi-Usa's hunt for the silver crystal, etc. S had Haruka and Michiru's search for the holy grail and Hotaru's budding friendship with Chibi-Usa (Not much need for subplots in this one since notably there's a LOT of main plot). Super S' designated subplot took the form of Chibi-Usa and Pegasus' budding relationship. How much could they have moved the plot? Chibi-Usa's just a kid (and far less powerful than she was in the corresponding manga arc; why make the bell her sole weapon?) and Pegasus is an illusion. Not that the brewing conflict is really FELT. The Dead Moon is content to target one person at a time, while its leader and army of monsters faff about (Zirconia's like the Lothor of the Sailor Moon anime), so the closest we get to an 'interesting' subplot is the designated trio villain developing their victim's trap every week while the soldiers faff about and occasionally wonder why a flying horse comes to help them in every fight. Luckily this changes once the Quartet comes and Super S rights itself by having more fights and more episodes to develop the main plot. I like it for what it is, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't.


I agree with this immensely. I never really considered how the level of subplots dwindled considerably for season four. I realize Ikuhara was having fun with all of the "dream outings" between Chibiusa and Pegasus, but the monsters of the week were weak (no pun intended), and the main cast was reduced to give focus to the budding romantic friendship between the two. However, I really liked the villains of this season, a lot more than with the Dark Kingdom. The Amazon Trio were generally entertaining and, in the end, borderline sympathetic, the Amazoness Quartet were fun, and Zirconia was creepy while Nehelania was enjoyably crazy Very Happy They were more dynamic than the Dark Kingdom to me, at least as far as camp value and sheer entertainment level can go. However, I think the problem comes from the fact that they follow such formidable and threatening foes (Tomoe, Mistress Nine, etc.) that they come off as unsatisfactory. They feel like a reversal of the darker matter that came before them, which can cheapen the storyline's potential for drama and effectiveness, as you indicated (apparently this was done to rope back in the younger female audience that had started to stray). If we ever get our new anime adaptation (which seems to be a ways off in the distance Rolling Eyes ), I really wonder if they will manage to elevate the Dream arc above its previous anime counterpart? Will they be able to maintain a more even amount of drama, comedy, and character development?

And for that matter, will they keep the Outer Senshi in the plot? Always hated them being cut out and excused with a brief little tv special Sad


Great point. Nehelenia is small potatoes compared with the massive extraterrestrial threats the soldiers have come across.


True...but anime!Nehellenia is also the only Sailor Moon to come back and fight Sailor Moon a second time. Gotta give her props for that. Wink
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 965

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:41 am Reply with quote
mangaka-chan wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
roseversailles wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
Nico1924 wrote:
The Amazon Trio was just an excuse for more and more filler episodes, none of them getting inspiration from the manga. There is almost nothing similar between the TV and the manga versions, except the characters and the big lines (Nehelenia wants to get Pegasus).

In the anime, the Amazon Trio just hangs in a bar, watching pictures of their victims, go to hunt them "disguised" (and these stupid Sailor Senshis met them several times and never recognized them :S ).

The only development they got was that they wanted to have dreams like humans and Fish Eye helped Usagi and Chibi Usa.


One of the more interesting flaws of Super S was its lack of subplots. Sailor Moon always had a subplot or two to keep things interesting outside the main plot. The first arc had Nephrite's romance with Naru, Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask's identity crisis, Mamoru turning evil, the hunt for the silver crystal, and the search for the Moon Princess, and the gathering of the soldiers. R had the Soldiers getting their memories back, Usagi and Mamoru's reunion and breakup, Chibi-Usa's hunt for the silver crystal, etc. S had Haruka and Michiru's search for the holy grail and Hotaru's budding friendship with Chibi-Usa (Not much need for subplots in this one since notably there's a LOT of main plot). Super S' designated subplot took the form of Chibi-Usa and Pegasus' budding relationship. How much could they have moved the plot? Chibi-Usa's just a kid (and far less powerful than she was in the corresponding manga arc; why make the bell her sole weapon?) and Pegasus is an illusion. Not that the brewing conflict is really FELT. The Dead Moon is content to target one person at a time, while its leader and army of monsters faff about (Zirconia's like the Lothor of the Sailor Moon anime), so the closest we get to an 'interesting' subplot is the designated trio villain developing their victim's trap every week while the soldiers faff about and occasionally wonder why a flying horse comes to help them in every fight. Luckily this changes once the Quartet comes and Super S rights itself by having more fights and more episodes to develop the main plot. I like it for what it is, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't.


I agree with this immensely. I never really considered how the level of subplots dwindled considerably for season four. I realize Ikuhara was having fun with all of the "dream outings" between Chibiusa and Pegasus, but the monsters of the week were weak (no pun intended), and the main cast was reduced to give focus to the budding romantic friendship between the two. However, I really liked the villains of this season, a lot more than with the Dark Kingdom. The Amazon Trio were generally entertaining and, in the end, borderline sympathetic, the Amazoness Quartet were fun, and Zirconia was creepy while Nehelania was enjoyably crazy Very Happy They were more dynamic than the Dark Kingdom to me, at least as far as camp value and sheer entertainment level can go. However, I think the problem comes from the fact that they follow such formidable and threatening foes (Tomoe, Mistress Nine, etc.) that they come off as unsatisfactory. They feel like a reversal of the darker matter that came before them, which can cheapen the storyline's potential for drama and effectiveness, as you indicated (apparently this was done to rope back in the younger female audience that had started to stray). If we ever get our new anime adaptation (which seems to be a ways off in the distance Rolling Eyes ), I really wonder if they will manage to elevate the Dream arc above its previous anime counterpart? Will they be able to maintain a more even amount of drama, comedy, and character development?

And for that matter, will they keep the Outer Senshi in the plot? Always hated them being cut out and excused with a brief little tv special Sad


Great point. Nehelenia is small potatoes compared with the massive extraterrestrial threats the soldiers have come across.


True...but anime!Nehellenia is also the only Sailor Moon to come back and fight Sailor Moon a second time. Gotta give her props for that. Wink


No I don't. Razz She's reduced to a plot device for accelerating Saturn's soldierly development and she doesn't even come back on her own power. Leaving her in space would've been the more interesting ending. Just having her top dick move after dick move until the soldiers finally forgive her was unjustified and anticlimactic.
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jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 2307
Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:59 am Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
Princess_Irene wrote:
jr0904 wrote:


Though spoiler[ the amazon trio becoming a part of Chibi Usa's team ] was definitely a shock cause i don't think it actually happened in the anime.


It didn't happen in the anime - they cut that part out. As I recall, most of the complaints I heard back in the day about SuperS were along the lines of "Rini sucks!", but personally I remember thinking that it was just too sugary in general when compared to S. All in all I think the event under discussion really adds to the story, spoiler[especially in Stars.]

Quote:
though have yet to see the Stars arc since it was never released in the US.


It's a doozy. Very Happy I prefer the manga version of it; I think it's ultimately more powerful, particularly as regards the ending. I'll probably review the two Kodansha volumes together, but feel free to start a discussion in the manga forum as they come out!

KENZICHI wrote:
As for her art: I still love it, but I do agree that Naoko goes crazy with the arms and legs sometimes lol.


I love it too, crazy limbs and all. I can't wait for the artbook to be released! Very Happy

I am a little surprised by all of the complaints about the Amazon Trio. Maybe I don't feel attached to them because I initially read the manga first? I was always more captivated by the Amazoness Quartet...


Yeah; I liked the quartet more. Toei is the one who placed restrictions on the anime's team (More Chibi-Usa; fewer battles). They did the best they could considering and I think fans will be a lot more forgiving of Super S if it's released in three parts by Funimation. Their attitude towards it is harsher because Super S was broken up into much smaller portions in the days of geneon. If it came out as three 13-episode sets, people would be fine with it.


and it's the reason why people are so pissed of with them. especially their stupid reason to not release stars in the US.kinda dumb if you ask me.


Haterater wrote:
Quote:
probably they never completed the edited version of the Super S series when it showed on CN.


They did, it was all shown in full.


Are you sure its the CN from the US? Cause i was a mega moonie fanatic back when it showed on toonami, and i never once saw them completed Super S.

they definitely completed S but not the sequel. and after my sister who made me watched the eps they skipped in the japaneese version , i could definitely understand why they did during in that time.
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roseversailles



Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 213
Location: Washington, U.S.

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:21 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
Princess_Irene wrote:
jr0904 wrote:


Though spoiler[ the amazon trio becoming a part of Chibi Usa's team ] was definitely a shock cause i don't think it actually happened in the anime.


It didn't happen in the anime - they cut that part out. As I recall, most of the complaints I heard back in the day about SuperS were along the lines of "Rini sucks!", but personally I remember thinking that it was just too sugary in general when compared to S. All in all I think the event under discussion really adds to the story, spoiler[especially in Stars.]

Quote:
though have yet to see the Stars arc since it was never released in the US.


It's a doozy. Very Happy I prefer the manga version of it; I think it's ultimately more powerful, particularly as regards the ending. I'll probably review the two Kodansha volumes together, but feel free to start a discussion in the manga forum as they come out!

KENZICHI wrote:
As for her art: I still love it, but I do agree that Naoko goes crazy with the arms and legs sometimes lol.


I love it too, crazy limbs and all. I can't wait for the artbook to be released! Very Happy

I am a little surprised by all of the complaints about the Amazon Trio. Maybe I don't feel attached to them because I initially read the manga first? I was always more captivated by the Amazoness Quartet...


Yeah; I liked the quartet more. Toei is the one who placed restrictions on the anime's team (More Chibi-Usa; fewer battles). They did the best they could considering and I think fans will be a lot more forgiving of Super S if it's released in three parts by Funimation. Their attitude towards it is harsher because Super S was broken up into much smaller portions in the days of geneon. If it came out as three 13-episode sets, people would be fine with it.


and it's the reason why people are so pissed of with them. especially their stupid reason to not release stars in the US.kinda dumb if you ask me.


Haterater wrote:
Quote:
probably they never completed the edited version of the Super S series when it showed on CN.


They did, it was all shown in full.


Are you sure its the CN from the US? Cause i was a mega moonie fanatic back when it showed on toonami, and i never once saw them completed Super S.

they definitely completed S but not the sequel. and after my sister who made me watched the eps they skipped in the japaneese version , i could definitely understand why they did during in that time.


Actually, SuperS did air in full. I remember watching the final episode the season when it first aired (and IIRC, I've only seen it air once). I remember it vividly, because I was called out of the room and missed the last five minutes, and never saw the "ending" till a few years later when I purchased the VHS (remember those? Very Happy ). I can't recall them airing that again, but it was definitely Cartoon Network. I think it was in 98 or 99, but don't quote me on that. They did, however, edit episodes in SuperS, but none were skipped in full.
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_Emi_
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:40 pm Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
mangaka-chan wrote:
True...but anime!Nehellenia is also the only Sailor Moon to come back and fight Sailor Moon a second time. Gotta give her props for that. Wink


No I don't. Razz She's reduced to a plot device for accelerating Saturn's soldierly development and she doesn't even come back on her own power. Leaving her in space would've been the more interesting ending. Just having her top dick move after dick move until the soldiers finally forgive her was unjustified and anticlimactic.

I don't either. I liked Nehellenia being in the mirror. Then they had to retcon her background to how she just wanted to be loved. Rolling Eyes I thought it was a waste of episodes that they could have better spent on the actual Stars arc.
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