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PR: MangaGamer Announces Addition of If My Heart Had Wings from MoeNovel

'please license erotic games but take the erotic part out.'

i'm actually perfectly okay with this, i can understand people getting miffed but i don't think i'd ever play a visual novel for pornographic content, it seems like a pretty story, if i have the money maybe i'll check it out.

though based on the original comment maybe they went overboard.

i mean, what's wrong with kissing?

MangaGamer would probably do better to release an uncensored version on their 18+ site, and the censored version on their all-ages site. It's the same game, so that surely shouldn't be to much trouble? They get the money either way.

Bablioteca wrote:

though based on the original comment maybe they went overboard. i mean, what's wrong with kissing?

don't you know kissing and holding hands make babies/sarcasm lol. That's' what what I don't understand either unless there are some lolisque looking characters in this title.

Now that they've lost the VN community with censorship, who does MoeNovel expect to buy this? What we have left over is basically a tame romance novel with pictures, from a male point of view. The fact that it's all reading will turn off most gamers. Romance novels aren't something most men would be caught dead reading. That leaves women, who would probably prefer a female POV. In short, MoeNovel screwed themselves by not choosing an all-ages otome game as their first title.

But I still wonder why they want an ESRB rating when it's not required at all for PC games

'please license erotic games but take the erotic part out.'

i'm actually perfectly okay with this, i can understand people getting miffed but i don't think i'd ever play a visual novel for pornographic content, it seems like a pretty story, if i have the money maybe i'll check it out.

though based on the original comment maybe they went overboard.

i mean, what's wrong with kissing?

I guess the main question I would have is: who are they going to try to market this to, and how will they reach them? If they're trying to reach a market of anime viewers, I hardly think a little bit of "fanservice" (and on-the-lips kissing) would have hurt (and they could have gone for an M/PEGI-16 rating). But re-positioning the content to this degree suggests that they have some sort of plan for how they're going to sell it. I'd love to see them succeed (and I think the game itself is certainly worth consideration), but the anime/eroge fan community's predisposition against "censorship" of any kind makes me question if that bad stigma will haunt it to market. (You already have the people chanting "buying it = supporting censorship", which is a shame for the game itself.) If this doesn't work out, it only makes it less likely that good story-centric games will be localized going forward (which is sort of the same boat we were already in).

configspace wrote:

But I still wonder why they want an ESRB rating when it's not required at all for PC games

I believe the game is going on steam (see edit at the bottom).

I actually prefer the game is all ages. Generally speaking, we don't get the console release here (rather the PC).

I actually prefer the game is all ages. Generally speaking, we don't get the console release here (rather the PC). However, ero scenes are pretty terrible and not really interesting to me. As long as the edits are done competently and the story flows, I'd rather play the all ages version.

I actually prefer the game is all ages. Generally speaking, we don't get the console release here (rather the PC). However, ero scenes are pretty terrible and not really interesting to me. As long as the edits are done competently and the story flows, I'd rather play the all ages version.

Then there are plenty of VNs out there that aren't originally eroges. Censoring an eroge though is completely unacceptable.

If this is what VNs have to go through to be able to make it on Steam, it might be better to not cater to Steams whims.

This game doesn't have a console release in Japan. Only English speakers get the privilege of buying an edited version. Rolling Eyes

However, they've gone beyond that and THAT really bothers me. They've rewritten lines and altered non-ero scene images (and not just to cover up some nudity). I don't see this as any better than censoring anime or rewriting lines for the hell of it there. And some of the non-HCG stuff being changed is really, really dumb.

I suppose (edit: like HitokiriShadow said above) my main concern is with the edits that aren't just "removing explicit scenes", and how much it changes the characters in the story... but I guess I'd have to play the game (again) to compare.

Typically, most all-ages/console releases have rather minimal edits aside from the obvious, and are given either a CERO C or CERO D rating (15+ or 17+). The amount that go for a CERO B is a bit less. (For example, all of the D.C. ports are rated C.) (I guess perhaps the issue is that ESRB doesn't have a rating between T and M, and PEGI only has 12 and 16.)

That aside, the other unfortunate thing with this not being an actual all-ages/console release is that you don't get any additional content to make up for what is removed. So, as was mentioned, half of the CG is being removed, but no new CG is being added. This is probably unavoidable, but it is unfortunate.

RyanSaotome wrote:

Then there are plenty of VNs out there that aren't originally eroges. Censoring an eroge though is completely unacceptable.

Of which almost all of the popular ones have all age versions. Why does it matter whether the original had ero or not? if your familiar with the market, you know they port, expand, and modify VNs like crazy. In many cases, these ports have additional content not present in the PC version. There is no "real" version basically--just the one you may want to play.

RyanSaotome wrote:

If this is what VNs have to go through to be able to make it on Steam, it might be better to not cater to Steams whims.

The only community that seems worse at not buying stuff than anime fans and manga fans are visual novel fans. The audience needs to be expanded somehow to those that will buy--or maybe there's just not a viable market for non nukige. Personally, I'm skeptical Steam is the golden ticket but it's worth a shot.

Also, i've been around long enough to know that even if it was perfect no one would buy it. That's just how it works.

Ojamajo LimePie wrote:

This game doesn't have a console release in Japan. Only English speakers get the privilege of buying an edited version. Rolling Eyes

Perhaps they're working on one. It wouldn't be unprecedented. Also, I would consider it a privilege if we get an all ages version first.

HitokiriShadow wrote:

However, they've gone beyond that and THAT really bothers me. They've rewritten lines and altered non-ero scene images (and not just to cover up some nudity). I don't see this as any better than censoring anime or rewriting lines for the hell of it there. And some of the non-HCG stuff being changed is really, really dumb.

I've seen a lot of speculation on what was cut and some very general stuff via an email someone posted. But until the game is out we don't know for certain how much of the non-ero stuff was actually cut if any.

Maybe it will be done in a shitty way like Hirameki did. Or maybe it will improve the flow of the story. Personally, nothing annoys me more than an ill-timed poorly written ero scene in the middle of an emotionally powerful scene. So cutting that crap out is an improvement IMO. If they have to draw bath towels on an erotic bathing scene, I'm fine with that.

If people prefer porn in VNs, fine. I can respect that viewpoint. But I don't. I no more want porn in VNs than I want porn in anime. It's just not something I find interesting.

relentlessflame wrote:

I suppose (edit: like HitokiriShadow said above) my main concern is with the edits that aren't just "removing explicit scenes", and how much it changes the characters in the story... but I guess I'd have to play the game (again) to compare.

I'd definitely be interested in your thoughts once the game has come out. Have you played the demo? It's un-QCed but perhaps it could give you an idea.

relentlessflame wrote:

Typically, most all-ages/console releases have rather minimal edits aside from the obvious, and are given either a CERO C or CERO D rating (15+ or 17+). The amount that go for a CERO B is a bit less. (For example, all of the D.C. ports are rated C.) (I guess perhaps the issue is that ESRB doesn't have a rating between T and M, and PEGI only has 12 and 16.)

As you know, Japan's rating systems have very different standards than the ERSB so there's not a lot of value in comparing them. I know one of the issues Minori raised during the ef controversy is they did not believe it was ethical to release a VN here if it wasn't rated. Of course, they eventually did... but purpose pulltop is operating under similar logic. Or maybe it has to do with Steam. We can only speculate as to why they submitted it for a ESRB rating.

relentlessflame wrote:

That aside, the other unfortunate thing with this not being an actual all-ages/console release is that you don't get any additional content to make up for what is removed. So, as was mentioned, half of the CG is being removed, but no new CG is being added. This is probably unavoidable, but it is unfortunate.

The reason I don't buy this argument it's also $35 as opposed to ~$80-$100 for the Japanese version. Yes, if you wanted the ero version, half the CGs are missing and no new routes were added. But nothing I wanted may have been cut and it's cheaper and translated.

I'd definitely be interested in your thoughts once the game has come out. Have you played the demo? It's un-QCed but perhaps it could give you an idea.

As you know, Japan's rating systems have very different standards than the ERSB so there's not a lot of value in comparing them. I know one of the issues Minori raised during the ef controversy is they did not believe it was ethical to release a VN here if it wasn't rated. Of course, they eventually did... but purpose pulltop is operating under similar logic. Or maybe it has to do with Steam. We can only speculate as to why they submitted it for a ESRB rating.

The reason I don't buy this argument it's also $35 as opposed to ~$80-$100 for the Japanese version. Yes, if you wanted the ero version, half the CGs are missing and no new routes were added. But nothing I wanted may have been cut and it's cheaper and translated.

For me it really depends if the sex is a part of the story. From an ergoe such as "A drug that makes you dream", it is very necessarily for one of the best endings in the game to understand what's going on. Now beleive it or not they do have an all ages school days game called LxH for the ps2 but to me it wasn't the same to me.

Not only was massive amounts of sex cut out but they took away the blood as well, which is huge bummer. Now I can agree with you with certain games from key/visual arts such as kanon air or little buster ex that feel very awkward to read through. Personally the erotica needs to flow in well with the game, you don't start off with right off the bat nor do you keep in middle of the game. It needs to be built up over the course of the route you're playing, then lead actual events.