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Flowers Of Evil (TV).


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Mad_Scientist



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 2343

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:04 am Reply with quote
Thanks lossthief. I've been watching the series on crunchyroll, so the songs aren't translated, but I could tell the lyrics were different for the versions and was curious as to what they were. Was planning on downloading some fansub episodes (since last I checked youtube didn't have the openings posted, oddly enough) but you saved me the trouble.
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Riddley



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 534
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:41 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I think you are all missing one very salient, intellectual fact about episode 7...

...namely that Saeki's mom is one hot piece of ass.


But what is it with anime moms having husky voices? Is there some hormone in Japan that after they have kids, they hit Mom puberty or something? I can only think of one example where the mom had a voice that sounded like she was a teen, and that was in Code;Breaker.
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 15491
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:37 am Reply with quote
Well, episode 7 was a real turning point for Kasuga. It demonstrated that the theory he is, on some level, enjoying Nakamura's persecution/domination, is true. He was spoiler[free and clear: she had nullified their contract in disgust. It seems obvious that he chose not to be free and clear.]

By the same token, it is now also obvious that Nakamura isn't simply bullying Kasuga for shits and giggles. She genuinely sees him as a kindred spirit in a Hell of conformity and sees it as her mission to liberate him from the vestiges of that. That's what has always been stated, but until episode 7, it was never proven to be true. spoiler[But her willingness to nullify the contract and not wanting to have anything more to do with him after briefly thinking he wasn't the "hentai" she thought] he was reveals it is true.

And they are genuinely kindred spirits. Kasuga despises his provincial town and its inhabitants because he believes himself to be intellectually superior. Nakamura despises those around her because of their willingess to perpetuate the rituals of social conformity while secretly thinking only of sex.

I haven't read the manga, but I have to wonder how dark this story is going to go. Right now, it wouldn't surprise me if it goes Columbine dark.
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bonbonsrus



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:20 am Reply with quote
He broke!
I can't decide yet if I think this was brilliant or this is where it falls apart for me, it kinda depends on where it goes next...but one things for sure, it left a strong impression. It's not an episode you can forget easily. Not a show you can forget easily. I love how wonderfully done this show is!
I can't wait to see more!
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1858
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:


He was spoiler[free and clear: she had nullified their contract in disgust. It seems obvious that he chose not to be free and clear.]



I feel like this is a particularly important detail since spoiler[it's fairly clear that Kasuga could have walked away from it... but then he doesn't.

Looking past that, even more than some kind of masochistic desire to be under Nakamura's thumb, I think a large part of why he doesn't get out of the relationship does have to do with the idea that him and Nakamura are "kindred spirits": if he lets her walk out now... he'll be all alone again.

(or at least he think he'll be alone... it's very strange that he goes on and on about how no one is on his level, yet it's pretty apparent that he has a book buddy in the form of his father... is family really not good enough to fill the void left by a lack of "smart" friends his age?)

He briefly references Baudelaire during his short internal monologue... but I don't think it has so much to do with the idea that he's so isolated that he can't talk about the guy in what he perceives to be a "bumpkin" town as it does with the idea that Nakamura seems to be the only person out there that understands the "real" Kasuga and accepts him for what he really is.]


That being said, due to my recent (extremely) heightened interest in Hiroshi Nagahama, I picked up Detroit Metal City on DVD...

(it's essentially about this aspiring pop artist that ends up becoming the dark emperor of Japan's death metal scene for whatever reason)

It's interesting to watch in the context of Flowers of Evil given that both works seem to cover some of the same type of ideas regarding roleplaying within a society at large that highly values appearances.

On one hand, you have this dude who wants success, but on his own terms (he can't seem to learn to appreciate the success in death metal that he isn't able to find in pop music). On the other hand, you have a fanbase that is by and large very superficial (when the guy performs his pop music at a street corner, a bunch of DMC fans write the guy off as to not having any talent, not knowing that he's the dark emperor that they all worship so much).

It's really interesting (and hilarious) stuff and I do highly recommend it.
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 15491
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Oh man, I love both the live-action Detroit Metal City movie and animated OVA series. They are awesome. I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't realize that DMC and FoE share the same director. Embarassed
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1858
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:22 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Oh man, I love both the live-action Detroit Metal City movie and animated OVA series. They are awesome. I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't realize that DMC and FoE share the same director. Embarassed


The guy is amazing... I'mma dick-ride Masayuki Kojima (Monster, Tibetan Dog, Piano Forest) a lot, but I mostly feel like this dude is right up there with him.

Funny thing is, I mostly knew about Nagahama from my exposure to Mushi-shi... the one episode of which I did find boring when I saw it a long time back, but it kind of stuck with me given its apparent high level of competence and is largely why I was pretty interested to see what he would do with material that I already knew I liked.

(that said, I'm actually willing to go back and watch Mushi-shi now... bought it along with the DMC set)

That entire story sounds kinda fraudulent, but whatever lol
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1567

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Well the only reason I got interested in this anime in the first place was Nagahama.I consider Mushishi to be best anime of all time,and I am quite sure directing on that anime was great.I am not sure if you will find a lot of parallels between FoE and Mushishi,though a lot of characters in it suffer due to the inherited position in social hierarchy(both metaphorically and literally). If you want to see more of Nagahama,I recommend watching episode of Fruits Basket that he directed,it was wonderful and it showed influence from another famous director Ikuhara.I believe they both worked together on Utena.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Baka RangerBaka Ranger


Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:15 pm Reply with quote
I didn't know how to describe it at the time I watched the episode, and I still don't really, but the vandalism scene was oddly exhilarating.
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DuskyPredator
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 8478
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:51 am Reply with quote
Episode 8

I know that they were going for a building tension in this episode, but it was just awfully done. I literally skipped minutes of the episode because it was just a spoiler[slow walk from the school with them holding hands], it was not until like 8 minutes in he reached his house. Half the episode was over by the time he got to school, and they took their sweet time with still shots to show everything, and finally revealing that spoiler[no one knew he did it, something I figured out as soon as he put ink on the blackboard].

I did like how the music got louder as he was walking to school, and there was some good atmosphere around the later half, I also liked some of the reactions. But they left what I really wanted to see happen as a cliff-hanger, that spoiler[Saeki would obviously figure out that it was him because the drawing on the ground is obviously the flower on the cover of his favourite book]. I really want to see what happens next as I feel it will make or break the payoff of all the events till now.

EDIT: My thoughts through parts of this episode.
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12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 546
Location: Derby, England

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:14 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Episode 8

I know that they were going for a building tension in this episode, but it was just awfully done. I literally skipped minutes of the episode because it was just a spoiler[slow walk from the school with them holding hands], it was not until like 8 minutes in he reached his house. Half the episode was over by the time he got to school, and they took their sweet time with still shots to show everything, and finally revealing that spoiler[no one knew he did it, something I figured out as soon as he put ink on the blackboard].

I did like how the music got louder as he was walking to school, and there was some good atmosphere around the later half, I also liked some of the reactions. But they left what I really wanted to see happen as a cliff-hanger, that spoiler[Saeki would obviously figure out that it was him because the drawing on the ground is obviously the flower on the cover of his favourite book]. I really want to see what happens next as I feel it will make or break the payoff of all the events till now.

EDIT: My thoughts through parts of this episode.


Agreed, you were not the only one thinking of that particular Monty Python scene. Well that and seeing the killer rabbit flying out of nowhere into Kasuga's neck.

Anyway, while it was a climb down it was the slow bubbling of the story which made the previous climax so exhilarating. Also, as silly as it sounds, while the flower symbol in the centre of the room was obvious, I was not expecting Saeki to figure it out so quickly, mainly because anime characters do not have a track record of picking up on the obvious which did give the episode a good cliffhanger.

Also on the subject on why we picked up the show, I simply started watching it because it had 'evil' in the title, did not have a clue what it was about at the time but I am a big horror fan and am happy I picked it up.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 2164

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Episode 8

I actually really enjoyed the long Death March home, partly because of the music, but mostly because it really showed me why they feel so trapped in this town. Nakamura has good reason to want to break down the walls, because this place seems to consist of nothing but walls and fences. I guess there are some birth canal metaphors too if you want, especially that long overpass shot.

I also liked how the students were just as excited by it all as the duo was in wreaking the havoc in the first place. They're clearly just as bored with life there as the MCs. Until they realize the monster they imagine is one of them, in which case, no mercy.

12skippy21 wrote:
I was not expecting Saeki to figure it out so quickly, mainly because anime characters do not have a track record of picking up on the obvious

I have a feeling Saeki (and her vigilant friend, who I think also knows) will turn out to be 10 times smarter than the local constabulary.
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Riddley



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 534
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:50 pm Reply with quote
I can summarize this episode in one compound sentence.

After a night of violent sexual inter...I mean spoiler[rampant vandalism], Kasuga & Nakamura engage in a post-coital...I mean spoiler[post-rampage] walk home for 9 minutes, then walk some more, then spoiler[stare at the viewers for a while] and finally have an interlude spoiler[ 3-way behind the school.]
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lem
Enjoying the time of EVEEnjoying the time of EVE


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:06 pm Reply with quote
just watched Episode 8 on CR...

Just when you think Kasuga would step up, and finally face the music... spoiler[ he gets a pass. Well up until the conclusion of the episode at least. That was killer. You could really see how relieved he was upon seeing that he managed to conceal his identity and then Saeki of all people shows up as he's talking with Nakamura. ] Vey well done.

I'm really enjoying this one. Much more than the manga so far. But that's probably because, to me, the anime character faces convey more than the typical flat faced big eyes pointy chin character designs of static images. The rotoscope effect, a little weird and off putting at first has really added to the telling of this particular story. Everything about it so far, the music, the wry end sequences (this latest Ep in particular "Rock, Paper, Scissors" <--- who knows which of these will win out next week?) have all been a pleasure. But being pulled along like this on a weekly basis has only been bearable thanks to doses of Attack on Titan.

spoiler[From just one little losing battle with temptation I think Kasuga has seriously jeopardized his future.] Amazing how that works.spoiler[To think that all it took was one mistake, one instance of being dishonest with himself that has allowed someone like Nakamura to enter his life. Seeing that his ideal of purity in Saeki has been soiled by his own hand has got to be one of the most cruel fates he could ever imagine. What an incredible turn of events. As for Nakamura, damn. What a great character. At her relatively young age she's already painfully aware of what it's like to be "the nail that gets hammered down". I'd argue that her classmates and Teacher are just as evil for their shunning and demeaning of her.]

I would've loved to have been able to see a show like this while I was sill in school. Kids in Japan are lucky that way. As for any other ways I'm not so sure, but at least they have the mirror that is broadcast television reflecting back at them with this.
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1858
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:12 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Episode 8

I know that they were going for a building tension in this episode, but it was just awfully done.



Personally, the sequence had this oddly spoiler[serene and romantic] quality to it that I really liked.

spoiler[They're not just holding hands...they're savoring this newfound connection they've established with each other. This is like... vastly different from what Kasuga and Saeki experienced when they started "going out" where there's a lot of talk of "dating" going around, but you're never quite sure that they're on the same wavelength.

There's a couple of cool things going on in the sequence, like how isolated the characters are depicted and how, despite the incoming storm, it seems like there's this weird acknowledgement that the pair feels like they're gonna be okay... because they have each other.

(though, understandably, Kasuga is a little on edge because he was under the impression that his normal life was about to come to an end)]


Would actually watch the sequence again >_>
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