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The Summer 2013 Anime Preview Guide


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Etrien



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 525
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:11 pm Reply with quote
NottJim wrote:
I thought it was interesting that if you discount Zac's review of C3-bu the average score for that show shoots up to 3.875 making it the most popular anime this season.


HAH. I see what you did there.

Though, if you discount Carlo's score for Watamote, it jumps up to an even higher average of 3.9. Wink It even breaks the 4.0 barrier if we count dtm42's score.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:36 pm Reply with quote
NottJim wrote:
That's a great table dtm42.


Why thank you. I did spend an hour or so making it, although a lot of that was me getting distracted and re-reading some of the previews. Anyway, I'm glad you liked it.

I plan to do another such spreadsheet in the Fall season, except I'll post it at the start of the preview guide and then simply update it as new previews roll in.

I also have the idea for Fall 2013 of putting more normal users than just myself on the spreadsheet, so long as I know the ratings they want to give. Increases the range of opinions on offer and provides alternative points of view to the six official previewers.
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zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:21 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
NottJim wrote:
That's a great table dtm42.


Why thank you. I did spend an hour or so making it, although a lot of that was me getting distracted and re-reading some of the previews. Anyway, I'm glad you liked it.

I plan to do another such spreadsheet in the Fall season, except I'll post it at the start of the preview guide and then simply update it as new previews roll in.

I also have the idea for Fall 2013 of putting more normal users than just myself on the spreadsheet, so long as I know the ratings they want to give. Increases the range of opinions on offer and provides alternative points of view to the six official previewers.

Count me in! I'll be sure to post some ratings for you to include.
Etrien wrote:
NottJim wrote:
I thought it was interesting that if you discount Zac's review of C3-bu the average score for that show shoots up to 3.875 making it the most popular anime this season.


HAH. I see what you did there.

Though, if you discount Carlo's score for Watamote, it jumps up to an even higher average of 3.9. Wink It even breaks the 4.0 barrier if we count dtm42's score.

However, I consider it appropriate to discount Zak's score, since in his review he basically abstains from giving it a rating. He gives a rating "for people like me", which is, if I am not characterizing his opinion incorrectly, someone with a rather extremely negative view of anything that could be seen as promoting "gun culture" or "gun fetishism". In other words, the fact that it is about people who play with toy guns means he cannot give it a fair rating and is simply posting his "review" as a warning to like minded individuals.

I'm putting the following diatribe in spoiler blocks so people that don't care can skip it without complaint...
spoiler[I am a fairly staunch gun control advocate, but I had a BB gun when I was a kid and I enjoyed shooting it. I did target shooting and would go out in the 9 acres behind my house with friends and shoot at things, including birds, occasionally. As an adult, I have never owned a gun, believe that owning a gun puts you in greater danger of gun violence, and have encouraged this same attitude in my children.]

spoiler[However, I acknowledge that there are responsible gun owners and that hunting and sport-shooting is a valid pass time for some people. I personally loved target shooting with my BB gun as a kid, but when I got into archery I never picked up the BB gun again. I spent a lot of afternoons in high school target shooting with my compound bow and loved it, but wasn't ever able to do it in an organized fashion. My daughter may have the chance to be on an archery team at her school next year, which I think is a great thing.]

spoiler[However, despite my anti-gun stance, I love a good game of laser tag and when my son's friends were going to play paint-ball for a birthday party in middle school, I had no problem allowing him to go along. I see the type of activity that the girls in C3-bu take part in to be a beneficial and healthy activity. It helps foster team work as well as personal responsibility and learning things like small group tactics can be useful in terms of problem solving and leadership skills throughout life.]

OK, diatribe over... Suffice it to say that I found C3-bu a good enough and "clean" enough show to introduce my 12 year-old daughter to it, which lead her to say, "Awwww dad! Why'd you show me this? I so want to do that now! It looks too fun!!!"

With her group of friends and the stories she tells about them, I should probably be scared... LOL! I wouldn't doubt that she tries to get a group together to do it, or at least to go play laser tag together...


Last edited by zensunni on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:31 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:


I also have the idea for Fall 2013 of putting more normal users than just myself on the spreadsheet, so long as I know the ratings they want to give. Increases the range of opinions on offer and provides alternative points of view to the six official previewers.


Chibi approves.
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Etrien



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 525
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:38 pm Reply with quote
@zensunni:

I understand your point and, for the record, also disagree with Zac's assessment of C3-bu. However, every previewer inherently brings with them their own subjective opinions and biases; I'm of the mind that just because I disagree with the assessment doesn't mean it should just be thrown out. I made the comparison to Watamote because it was in a similar situation - highly positive reviews being brought down by a single outlying exception. Also, I'm always on the lookout for shows that score really highly across the board and typically give them a shot, even if they seem like something I wouldn't care for. This season, Watamote and Genshiken were the closest we had to that - if not for that one outlying score on Watamote. Blood Lad performed surprisingly well, too.

In further comparsion, C3-bu only had two scores rated 4 or higher (though one was a 5). Watamote and Genshiken both had three scores rated 4 or higher (four scores for Watamote, if we count dmt42's rating), with Watamote also getting a 5. When trying to assess the popularity of the shows in the guide, the average is a very important factor for me, but it isn't the only important one. I also try to consider how polarizing the show was, as well as what the actual scores comprising the average are. And, since Genshiken being a sequel series makes it semi-exempted in my books, that makes Watamote probably this run's winner.

I am curious what Zac would have rated C3-bu for people who aren't bothered by guns - say, if the show had been the exact same, but with, I dunno, Nerf Archery instead of Airsoft Guns. But, it's rather irrelevant by this point.
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Blood-
Aria CompanyAria Company


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20760
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Etrien wrote:
I am curious what Zac would have rated C3-bu for people who aren't bothered by guns - say, if the show had been the exact same, but with, I dunno, Nerf Archery instead of Airsoft Guns. But, it's rather irrelevant by this point.


I believe in one of his posts in this thread Zac referred to it as the "samey trash" as other (unspecified) shows about highschool girls, so I'm guessing he wouldn't have rated it very high.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:29 pm Reply with quote
zensunni wrote:
Count me in! I'll be sure to post some ratings for you to include.


ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Chibi approves.


Awesome. Glad to know other people are keen too.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1243
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:18 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
I also have the idea for Fall 2013 of putting more normal users than just myself on the spreadsheet, so long as I know the ratings they want to give. Increases the range of opinions on offer and provides alternative points of view to the six official previewers.

I comment tl;dr crap about every title anyway, I could add number grades if you're interested. Here are a couple of previews of next season's previews:

Kuroko's Basketball 2: 3/5
Kill la Kill: 4.5/5
Valvrave 2: 0.5/5
Megane-bu: 5/5
Tsukkomi Club: 8/5
Loli Wars: 12/5
Let's Sit Around Drinking Tea and Sexually Torment the Quiet, Shy, Big-Breasted and Bespectacled Member of Our Club (Which We Formed for the Express Purpose of Accomplishing Nothing) Every Day Except When the Single Male Member Accidentally Trips and Sees Her Underwear We All Kick Him in the Nuts and Shout "Pervert!" (AKA OchaHentai): 9999/5
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NottJim



Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Edinburgh, UK
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:59 pm Reply with quote
I'd be really interested in a week by week score, so we could see how shows developed, which ones had great promise but failed to deliver and which ones were surprise hits.

It's a shame we have such a small sample size, people are inevitably going to use it to blame/vindicate individuals, so maybe it's not a great idea Confused

(ANIME METACRITIC! Very Happy)

*edited for spelling*
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:24 pm Reply with quote
NottJim wrote:
I'd be really interested in a week by week score, so we could see how shows developed, which ones had great promise but failed to deliver and which ones were surprise hits.

It's a shame we have such a small sample size, people are inevitably going to use it to blame/vindicate individuals, so maybe it's not a great idea Confused


I tried creating one of these a few months back but no one seemed to want to post their updates. Maybe it's too much work :shrug:
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3412
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:01 am Reply with quote
NottJim wrote:
I'd be really interested in a week by week score, so we could see how shows developed, which ones had great promise but failed to deliver and which ones were surprise hits.

It's a shame we have such a small sample size, people are inevitably going to use it to blame/vindicate individuals, so maybe it's not a great idea Confused

(ANIME METACRITIC! Very Happy)

*edited for spelling*

Except that Metacritic is a compilation of actual *review* scores. The Preview Guide's scores are NOT meant to be regarded as actual reviews. They're basically off-the-cuff thoughts based on the first one or two episodes of a series.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:33 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
NottJim wrote:
I'd be really interested in a week by week score, so we could see how shows developed, which ones had great promise but failed to deliver and which ones were surprise hits.

It's a shame we have such a small sample size, people are inevitably going to use it to blame/vindicate individuals, so maybe it's not a great idea Confused

(ANIME METACRITIC! Very Happy)

*edited for spelling*

Except that Metacritic is a compilation of actual *review* scores. The Preview Guide's scores are NOT meant to be regarded as actual reviews. They're basically off-the-cuff thoughts based on the first one or two episodes of a series.


The entire concept of prioritizing the preview guide scores themselves and compiling them into some kind of aggregate mean is disheartening.

Rather than some spreadsheet where forum scores are compiled into some meaningless (and in my estimation, completely useless) spreadsheet of numbers, I'd rather people write about the shows they saw in the same way we do. Your actual thoughts and feelings about the stuff you watch are what's interesting and important, not some stupid number.

Do whatever you want but to me, that spreadsheet thing is passionless, banal scorekeeping that serves no actual purpose.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1243
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:16 am Reply with quote
True, I don't think there's any point in just writing numbers and moving on. I'm more interested in what gets written than the numbers that follow it, but as long as you keep in mind the reviews I think a compilation of the scores that go with them makes an interesting supplement.

In this vein, maybe a site functionality to look at only what's written on each show would be useful. "See what all our contributors said about C3-bu", for example, rather than opening each critic's article and scrolling down to each review in half a dozen different tabs.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:26 am Reply with quote
Oh Zac.

Zac wrote:
The entire concept of prioritizing the preview guide scores themselves and compiling them into some kind of aggregate mean is disheartening.


Disheartening for you, but not for others. I mean, you're the first and only person to have expressed a problem with it, whereas I've had at least half-a-dozen people thank me for it, including Theron who is a (p)reviewer himself.

Zac wrote:
Rather than some spreadsheet where forum scores are compiled into some meaningless (and in my estimation, completely useless) spreadsheet of numbers, I'd rather people write about the shows they saw in the same way we do. Your actual thoughts and feelings about the stuff you watch are what's interesting and important, not some stupid number.

Do whatever you want but to me, that spreadsheet thing is passionless, banal scorekeeping that serves no actual purpose.


Four points I'd like to make in response to this.

The first point is that the spreadsheet isn't useless, it does allow for quick and easy comparisons without having to go back through all the previews. The fact that other people have kept their own personal spreadsheets should tell you that they are relevant. And I didn't come up with the idea of posting a spreadsheet, I just copied what I saw in seasons past.

Following on from the first, the second point is that the spreadsheet is indeed interesting. Analysing numbers is fun, and I'm by no means the only one who thinks that way. It's also quite useful to be able to compare seasons to one another and previewers to one another. It is difficult and time-consuming to do comparisons of text, but a spreadsheet utilising the readily-available scores is another matter.

The third point is that if you think numerical scores are "stupid" then it's a bit weird that you use them yourself. If all that you think matters is the text then there's no need to give a score at all. It's a bit hypocritical of you to imply that they are uninteresting and unimportant when put on a spreadsheet, yet have no issue using them yourself alongside your previews and requiring five other people to do the same with theirs.

The fourth point is that there's nothing stopping people from posting a score and posting their written opinions. One does not prevent or exclude the other. A spreadsheet is just a tool designed to aggregate and quickly represent one aspect (numerical scores) of the previewers' opinions. The spreadsheet is not supposed to take the place of actually reading the previews. And heck, I noticed that in this thread there were people who provided both written opinions and a score.

And a bonus fifth point; please do not assert it is passionless when I am clearly passionate about this. It is extremely hypocritical for you to spend half the thread saying that no-one can second-guess what another person thinks or feels only to then second-guess what I feel. That's quite insulting.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 9206
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:48 am Reply with quote
Zac's not the only one who has reservations about the usefulness of it. I just didn't feel like getting into a bullet-point argument with you about it, since it doesn't matter to me what you do with your free time. Smile

I actually find it sort of fascinating that people would put so much effort into tracking and analyzing other people's opinions on entertainment, treating the numbers as if they represent something tangible, as if it proved something that couldn't otherwise be discerned. But hey, knock yourself out. You've done a fine job doing what you're doing, I just don't understand why you're doing it. Smile And that's fine, there's no reason I need to understand it.

Carry on.
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