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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In other words, the whole Magical Girl genre we know best in the West today basically came from the popularity of transforming, crime-fighting idols. Literally. =P

Each season has had there own aesthetic take on there costumes, season 1 seemed to takes its trends from Goth Loli (the reference of Cure Black/White for the color associated with said fashion trend)
Cure Melody/Rhythm from Suite having there outfits resemble ballerina's, so overstating that "they all look like idols" is looking over the trends of individual seasons.
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ZodiacBeast



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:39 pm Reply with quote
I understand the importance of idols to the genre, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like the designs that much. And to say that every magical girl looks like an idol is really stretching it.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:41 pm Reply with quote
But it's not stretching it to say that this is any kind of dramatic departure from past Pretty Cures, in design or in naming convention.
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ZodiacBeast



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:45 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
But it's not stretching it to say that this is any kind of dramatic departure from past Pretty Cures, in design or in naming convention.


It's mostly their similarity to some of Aikatsu's designs that turned me off.

No, it's not a dramatic change from past Cures (and I didn't mention names), but it was enough for me to say "bleh".

Honestly I usually don't pay that much attention to stuff like costume design and names as long as stuff like the story is fine.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:54 pm Reply with quote
I remember during Dokidoki's season reveal there was a similar outcry over the chief faery supporting character Ai.

But in the end, the character design wasn't "that" bad for the theme of the show especially when executed, though it is slightly outlandish that people are apparently passing around what is taken in series as a "normal baby" (be it said baby is actually a cupid of some sort) and passing it around as if it were a corgi.
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ZodiacBeast



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:57 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
I remember during Dokidoki's season reveal there was a similar outcry over the chief faery supporting character Ai.

But in the end, the character design wasn't "that" bad for the theme of the show especially when executed, though it is slightly outlandish that people are apparently passing around what is taken in series as a "normal baby" (be it said baby is actually a cupid of some sort) and passing it around as if it were a corgi.


Ai-chan still looks weird, even by Cure fairy standards. There's just something...off about her.
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1386
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:09 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:

People say "These designs are the worst, they are so bland" etc for every new Precure series.

The answer for that is because they aren't getting any better every season. Just my thoughts.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:13 pm Reply with quote
grooven wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:

People say "These designs are the worst, they are so bland" etc for every new Precure series.

The answer for that is because they aren't getting any better every season. Just my thoughts.


For the record, these designs are almost certainly by Kawamura Toshie, who did the designs for Yes5, Yes5GoG, Smile and the All Stars movies.

So yeah, these are hardly out of line for Precure in general.

As for the idol aspect, the only thing about the designs that screams "idols" are the vests. And, please. If you don't like the designs you don't like the designs, but saying its because they look like idols or Aikatsu is just silly.
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ZodiacBeast



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:16 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
As for the idol aspect, the only thing about the designs that screams "idols" are the vests. And, please. If you don't like the designs you don't like the designs, but saying its because they look like idols or Aikatsu is just silly.


Well then, what can I compare them to instead, since I'm not allowed to compare them to idols?
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:27 pm Reply with quote
ZodiacBeast wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
As for the idol aspect, the only thing about the designs that screams "idols" are the vests. And, please. If you don't like the designs you don't like the designs, but saying its because they look like idols or Aikatsu is just silly.


Well then, what can I compare them to instead, since I'm not allowed to compare them to idols?


Other magical girls? How are they so fundamentally different from any other Precure outfits, other than being almost completely different, because this is goddamn Precure and the outfits are always different?

Also, I don't really see why 'looking vaguely like Aikatsu if you squint really hard and have major preconceived biases" is a problem.
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ZodiacBeast



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
ZodiacBeast wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
As for the idol aspect, the only thing about the designs that screams "idols" are the vests. And, please. If you don't like the designs you don't like the designs, but saying its because they look like idols or Aikatsu is just silly.


Well then, what can I compare them to instead, since I'm not allowed to compare them to idols?


Other magical girls? How are they so fundamentally different from any other Precure outfits, other than being almost completely different, because this is goddamn Precure and the outfits are always different?

Also, I don't really see why 'looking vaguely like Aikatsu if you squint really hard and have major preconceived biases" is a problem.


My not liking them isn't a "problem," it's me not liking them that much. Don't blow things out of proportion. And there's no need to get so upset just because I compared the outfits to Aikatsu. It's the only thing I can think of that has a similar costume. Not the only one that exists, but I've yet to come across anywhere else so I used it as an example.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2093
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I think it's because most knowledge of mahou shoujo extends to Meduka or Sailor Moon. Creamy Mami was about transforming into an idol, and Pastel Yumi has Magical Idol right in the show's title.


But both Madoka and Sailor Moon are still heavily idol-like in design. O.o
Madoka's designs are a bit more unique in a general sense because, at this point, Magical Girls have separated enough from the "idol" concept alone that they can be practically anything now. Still, Madoka's outfit itself is the generic idol outfit concept and you can still see idol aesthetics that have survived in "Magical Girl" series up to today in the others' designs as well.
Sailor Moon lacks the usual frills we see in today's idols, but it really captured some of the rubbery outfits they had back then, during its conception. Sailor outfits were still very idol-related. They paralleled them enough with idols in the series, anyway. Anime hyper

FenixFiesta wrote:
Quote:
In other words, the whole Magical Girl genre we know best in the West today basically came from the popularity of transforming, crime-fighting idols. Literally. =P

Each season has had there own aesthetic take on there costumes, season 1 seemed to takes its trends from Goth Loli (the reference of Cure Black/White for the color associated with said fashion trend)
Cure Melody/Rhythm from Suite having there outfits resemble ballerina's, so overstating that "they all look like idols" is looking over the trends of individual seasons.


Well, for one, idols take some of their aesthetics partially from the "gothic lolita" fashion style, too. But Futari wa's Cure designs are most certainly more idol than gothic lolita. The hearts everywhere, the rainbow they shoot out, and the sparkles when they transform. The jewels... We associate these a lot more with idols than Gothic Lolita, which is usually more of an adult thing and very niche, so it wouldn't appeal as much to little girls.
Not to say some gothic lolitas don't look like idols or vice-versa.

As for Suite PreCure, they have some elements of ballerinas, but those same elements and more (especially the mic-looking jewels and guitar and stuff) are associated much more heavily with idols. Suite PreCure is the most idol-like PreCure from the seasons I've watched myself.

So it's not that each season doesn't have its themes and individual aesthetics. But you can't deny that their Cure outfits are still very idol-like, regardless of their themes. There ARE differences in each season's art style and fashion, but I'd say that PreCure's designs are some of the most... blurry designs in a rebooting franchise ever. And by that, I mean that it's hard to tell who comes from what, even with the themes going on, if you don't already associate them with their respective season. I believe the creators once mentioned that the third season had protagonists that looked like Honoka and Nagisa mainly because they wanted to switch things up, but were afraid the fanbase and kids would be upset that they can't recognize the characters anymore. They look that similar.

Quote:
...to say that every magical girl looks like an idol is really stretching it.


I'm not. I'm saying that every Cure looks like an idol. And that it's done like that intentionally. Magical Girls HAVE looked like idols, but I'm not actually saying that they haven't caught influence from other things before, too. I mean, Nanoha's designs, Magic Knight Rayearth's designs, Utena's designs, and so on break from the tradition a bit. And if we want to go back to ballerinas over idols, there's always Princess Tutu. And those are just popular examples. =P
Doesn't mean that most Magical Girl designs DON'T take from idols. Just that SOME don't. And there's nothing wrong with doing it either way, anyway. You can dislike whatever you dislike.

Personally, I'm on the fence. I didn't like DokiDoki's designs at first, but I got attached to Cure Rosetta's design enough that I eventually bought a nice figure of her when I came across it. Even if her character is flat as all heck. Anime hyper
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:23 pm Reply with quote
I think you are missing the part where a person can openly compare HC's current heroine line up to say AKB48 than say "well the outfit's that the past Cure's wear look like what a JPop Idol MIGHT wear"

I am sure you can scour the interwebs and find a specific example of an idol performing at a mall coincidentally wearing what looks like a future or past Precure outfit, in HC's case it could be said that this set of outfits (especially with the detail on the vests) looks like they got lost from AKB0049.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14033
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:58 am Reply with quote
About idol stage outfits: Smile

  • A new starlet would appear on the scene, there’d be intense interest in her for a couple of months, and then things would die down after either photos of her with a boyfriend (scandalous!) surfaced, or her costume designers ran out of places to add ribbons to her stage outfit, thus forcing her retirement at the ripe old age of 22 or so.
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CureFosh



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:23 am Reply with quote
The names are alright! I just hope we go back to the original style of just having two precures and add extra ones maybe after epi 15-20? That would be a refreshing change vs teams of five all the time...
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