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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:11 am Reply with quote
(the first question was me) I didn't mean to dismiss all dubs from the 90s, I just meant why were there so many more bad dubs then compared to today. Aside from most 4kids dubs, I can't think of any unwatchable dubs that have come out in the past decade, although that doesn't mean there aren't any.
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SpacemanHardy



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:35 am Reply with quote
Videogamep wrote:
Aside from most 4kids dubs, I can't think of any unwatchable dubs that have come out in the past decade, although that doesn't mean there aren't any.


Well, to be fair, Sentai Filmworks has put out a couple MASSIVE stinkers here and there, but by and large their dubs have become generally... "okay" at this point.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:16 pm Reply with quote
I always see non-Murricans talking about all of the anime their countries aired when they were kids, like Saint Seiya all over the place and Harlock in France, and both of those and more in Italy. It would have been nice to see those WMT anime get dubbed since they're mostly European or North American works to begin with. Though I'd question their feasibility of licensing even now, not many people are chomping at the bit to see the new Anne or Les Miserables.
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SahgoDN



Joined: 09 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:32 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
I always see non-Murricans talking about all of the anime their countries aired when they were kids, like Saint Seiya all over the place and Harlock in France, and both of those and more in Italy.


Ironically, it is my impression that the tables are turning nowadays. With the focus on the home video market, North America is getting *way* more anime than here in South America (can't speak for Europe, though), whose dependence on broadcast-channels-based licensing (and piracy, I guess) evolved in such a way that the anime scene has become kind of a wasteland.

But we're always gonna get more Saint Seiya, Toei promises.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Videogamep wrote:
(the first question was me) I didn't mean to dismiss all dubs from the 90s, I just meant why were there so many more bad dubs then compared to today. Aside from most 4kids dubs, I can't think of any unwatchable dubs that have come out in the past decade, although that doesn't mean there aren't any.


Basically, in the mainstream, anime didn't become A Thing in the US until after Sailor Moon in '94, or even after Pokemon, which would've been '99 by then:
Up to that point--apart from niche fan companies like AnimEigo, who knew anime, were smart enough to take their lumps from trying to fandub UY themselves and hire Coastal for Goddess and YUA--the industry was controlled by, as Justin says, small-time audio jobbers, with Carl Macek at the top.
Who had either "scored" an ancient discount feature/OVA or obscure 70's import series at the syndication markets, and just needed to get it into English for sales, no questions asked.

By the time we realized, hey, this stuff's not only foreign, it's actually different, and requires something with a little more effort than the "foreign-film dubbing" Roger Corman put into GE999, Viz had already gotten Ranma 1/2 onto shelves--
And which was also "Japanese-looking" enough to establish that the genre and characters of most anime shows were unique enough to need their own voices, and those like Coastal and Ocean who knew how to specialize were writing their own ticket.
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:04 pm Reply with quote
I'd just like to take this time out to say this column is usually one of my favorite reads on the site. While I am poor at technical things I do like the idea of picking the brain of a veteran to answer many things that are not commonly asked. Thanks for writing it.
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noblesse oblige



Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 257
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:09 pm Reply with quote
That last question brings up an interesting point about the rather subjective nature of "coolness" and something I have been curious about for some time now. Obviously to us in the U.S. the idea of authorities promoting "cool" is, in fact, the very antithesis of cool. But in Japan, at least as far as anime and manga portray it, cool seems to be quietly following the rules and making good grades thereby ensuring a higher station in adult life. Now obviously you shouldn't take everything you see in anime as fact, but there does seem to be an underlying cultural difference in the way that we define "cool".
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:23 pm Reply with quote
noblesse oblige wrote:
That last question brings up an interesting point about the rather subjective nature of "coolness" and something I have been curious about for some time now.


Y'mean, why hasn't someone grabbed mdo7 and told him that nobody on the planet likes Korean stuff except other Koreans?...While emphasizing the point by repeatedly smashing his face into the computer monitor? Razz
It was cute/annoying on the boards for a while (substitute "American" for "South Korean", and you've got Snomaster...PERIOD)--But if he's going to break out of his cage and start scribbling his nationalistically obsessed geek-banner-waving on the actual archivable columns, that's it, SWAT teams, shut this guy down. NOW.

noblesse oblige wrote:
Obviously to us in the U.S. the idea of authorities promoting "cool" is, in fact, the very antithesis of cool. But in Japan, at least as far as anime and manga portray it, cool seems to be quietly following the rules and making good grades thereby ensuring a higher station in adult life.


That, or "Trendy rebelliousness" as they imagine it in TV and movies, but it'd be hard to expect authorities to get a meaningful hold on that either.

"Cool Japan" was run by national Chamber of Commerce/PR people who didn't personally know what was cool about Japan, except what was reportedly selling in the West. (We're ten years past the point where liking Miyazaki movies makes you "internationally cool")--
They knew from sales that the Young Kids liked the anime, games, pop trends and Vocaloids, but how much "cool" export of anime could you expect from a country where enjoying the stuff immediately makes you UN-cool in the eyes of the gainfully employed mainstream?: How could they, for ex., sell Doraemon as the '20 Olympic mascot with any degree of sincerity, when they believe only preschool kiddie-winkies and immature NEET's watch Doraemon in the first place? Rolling Eyes
Without the messy negotiations of anime and J-pop, the only "cool" that most of the government could sell to the West was by reminding us how much we love Hello Kitty, and that's unfortunately the Anti-cool stereotype anime fans have been fighting for the last twenty years...But what do you expect from old government guys?


Last edited by EricJ2 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:41 pm Reply with quote
Animaze's early work was pretty lousy, if you ask me. Wings of the Honneamise's dub is pretty middling and doesn't really capture the magic of that film, and Macross Plus' is just painful and poorly directed (the VA for Myung is very stiff and unnatural). How else could they get a lousy performance from Bryan Cranston? They didn't really hit their stride until the late 90s, when they were churning out great English dubs like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Trigun, and the like. That's when they became my favorite dub studio.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14450
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
("This is one of the biggest stars in Japan! If we're going to invade America now, I want my client to be paid what he's worth!")


Except in Hollywood, we're racist and/or condescending to Asian entertainers, so you're lucky if you get to keep your shirt on.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:03 pm Reply with quote
In itself Cool Japan is a commendable idea. However to express my criticism of it in one short line;
It is a too top-down heavy approach in the form it is being implemented.

It lacks the synergy and interaction with one's demographics compared to for example Crunchy. Heck, even Funi would beat it on that front. It's dictated from the top and people be damned to have any say or influence on how it should operate/get better. Or at least that's the general impression I get...

A lot of it of course comes from Japan's corporate culture where it is very heavily ingrained. And we see it in many other Japan-lead exported enterprises/experiments, Bandai Visual, Daisuki, Aniplex etc. (Of course, Aniplex seems to be doing pretty well so there are exceptions...)
But however well it works in Japan, that mindset more often than not doesn't work that well when brought over.

I admit I could be wrong though...
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noblesse oblige



Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 257
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:09 pm Reply with quote
No, EricJ2, I was not referring to mdo7's obvious pride for South Korea, and I'm not in favor of silencing unpopular opinions or pointless name-calling either. I was just thinking out loud about cultural differences in the perception of what is "cool" and inviting anyone with a better grasp of the subject to elaborate on my thesis.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:14 pm Reply with quote
It's easy to completely ignore Cool Japan if you're just watching anime. The only time I ever see it being referred to tends to happen on ANN when people are deriding it, otherwise its presences seems to go by unnoticed.
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Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 15928
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:04 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Animaze's early work was pretty lousy, if you ask me. Wings of the Honneamise's dub is pretty middling and doesn't really capture the magic of that film, and Macross Plus' is just painful and poorly directed (the VA for Myung is very stiff and unnatural). How else could they get a lousy performance from Bryan Cranston? They didn't really hit their stride until the late 90s, when they were churning out great English dubs like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Trigun, and the like. That's when they became my favorite dub studio.

Yours is, I think, a small minority opinion on the Macross Plus dub, though. Having watched it several times over the years, I entirely disagree, and the overwhelming majority of what I've heard/seen said about that dub over the years has pointed to it as a "notable exception" when people complain about dub quality.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:19 pm Reply with quote
I agree with his view on Myung, I'd avoid the dub in the future because of her. Cranston and Batou were fine.
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