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NEWS: Pokémon Sun & Moon Games' Trailer Confirms Starters' Final Evolutions

BadNewsBlues wrote:

Revolutionary wrote: Incineroar is truthfully the worst final starter evolution yet (by design). I don't understand what they see in making these strange humanoid abominations. Because apparently they're only supposed to make Pokemon look exclusively like animals even when most of them aren't.

I never said that. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with the people who complain about non-animals being Pokemon. It has to do with cheesy, awkward designs like Incineroar.

In a way, all three starter evolutions are humanoid, but I didn't complain about the other two, because they work better.

I full well understand your gripe what you don't seem to understand is that most of fanbase got sick of Fire/Fighting types by the time Gen 5 rolled around with Emboar.
Most people don't really cares about the typing so long as it's not the played out Fire/Fighting typing that we already saw with Blaziken, Inferape, & Emboar.

I mean I take issues with Pokemon like Gyarados and Charizard not having the Dragon Typing by default but I don't make a big deal out of it or anything.

Every Pokemon generation has has them though.

Eh the seal turning into a mermaid is definitely your mileage may vary as to it "working better"

As if many of the starters had better designs. I daresay his design is far better than the like of Meganium, Typhlosion, Torterra, Emboar, Samurott, and Chesnaught. He's especially better looking than Primarina (a "cute" looking mermaid for a Water starter, really? Even it's Z move is useless). I honestly don't see anything corny about Incineroar's design, it's definitely not the best but it's got a sense of GAR (like Feraligatr) and that to me makes it better looking than the starters I mentioned before.

BadNewsBlues wrote:

Every Pokemon generation has has them though.

Okay? Doesn't have anything to do with anything.

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Eh the seal turning into a mermaid is definitely your mileage may vary as to it "working better"

I will admit it is my opinion. My opinion that the seal turning into a mermaid is a much better idea than a cheesy 80s humanoid animal action cartoon character.

Kon'Doriano wrote:

As if many of the starters had better designs. I daresay his design is far better than the like of Meganium, Typhlosion, Torterra, Emboar, Samurott, and Chesnaught. He's especially better looking than Primarina (a "cute" looking mermaid for a Water starter, really? Even it's Z move is useless). I honestly don't see anything corny about Incineroar's design, it's definitely not the best but it's got a sense of GAR (like Feraligatr) and that to me makes it better looking than the starters I mentioned before.

The only ones you would get away with arguing had similar or worse designs are Emboar and Chesnaught. I don't see anything wrong with Meganium, Typhlosion or Torterra who are all very logical steps from BOTH of their pre-evolutions. And Samurott, despite being quite different from its two pre-evolutions (which is actually good, because I thought that the middle evolution was very cheesy) is my favorite final evolved starter of all time.

I have no idea what 'GAR' means, but if means something like 'awesome', than Incineroar could never fit that category, unless we were back in the 80s... But we're not. Lets leave the 80s back where it belongs, please.

Incineroar could never fit that category, unless we were back in the 80s... But we're not. Lets leave the 80s back where it belongs, please.

To me, Incineroar looks fine and what I said "GAR" I don't mean "awesome" per se (you're very close though since the word is a pretty broad term) but it specifically means "manliness," "masculinity," and "ferocity"and Incineroar has a few of those elements.

To me, that quote in particular is a load of nonsense. They are free to bring in elements from the 80s and they have the artistic freedom to do so, regardless of the era we live in.

Now when you said Meganium, Typlosion, and Torterra are good because they are logical choices from their designs, what did you mean exactly? I get that the designs are consistent through all their stages but that's not good enough because the same can be said for almost every single starter. When I mentioned the starters I mentioned I'm talking about ALL of their evolution stages as well, not just their final forms. All I could interpret from your paragraph is that those 3 are good because they never went from quadrupedal to bipedal creatures like Incineroar did but considering how you like Samurott I doubt that was your point because you acknowledged that being different can be good. So again, what did you mean?

Kon'Doriano wrote:

To me, Incineroar looks fine and what I said "GAR" I don't mean "awesome" per se (you're very close though since the word is a pretty broad term) but it specifically means "manliness," "masculinity," and "ferocity"and Incineroar has a few of those elements.

Oh. *gags* Perhaps that's part of the reason I hate Incineroar so much.

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To me, that quote in particular is a load of nonsense. They are free to bring in elements from the 80s and they have the artistic freedom to do so, regardless of the era we live in.

Fine... Let me put it this way. Incineroar is just flat out cheesy to me. When I watch an 80s cartoon I can have fun and laugh at how cheesy it is... Because that was just how things were from that time. I can not do that with Incineroar. Incineroar is just cheesy, and not in a way that I can laugh at. It's just an atrocious design with nothing of value, IMO.

Calling back to 80s cheesiness has to be done in a particular way to be successful. Incineroar missed the mark.

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Now when you said Meganium, Typlosion, and Torterra are good because they are logical choices from their designs, what did you mean exactly? I get that the designs are consistent through all their stages but that's not good enough because the same can be said for almost every single starter. When I mentioned the starters I mentioned I'm talking about ALL of their evolution stages as well, not just their final forms. All I could interpret from your paragraph is that those 3 are good because they never went from quadrupedal to bipedal creatures like Incineroar did but considering how you like Samurott I doubt that was your point because you acknowledged that being different can be good. So again, what did you mean?

Hm? My point is that following logically from the design of the first evolution is *typically* the best way to go.

I used Samurott is an exception, because exceptions can exist, and they do in fact exist. I don't know where they were going to go with Dewott, but wherever it was could have been an atrocity on the level of Incineroar based on how bad Dewott was. So I'm very glad they went a completely different direction with its final evolution.

It does not come down to quadrupeds being better, and bipeds being lesser. That's not where I make the distinction. Plenty of bipedal starters and Pokemon work... Just not Incineroar, Emboar, Chesnaught and Dewott.

My issue with Incineroar isn't how appropriate its typing is, it's that at the end of the day, Incineroar is a humanoid wrestler that follows through on the theme established by Blaziken through Emboar, despite an ostensible type change that should break that theme. It doesn't matter what it's typing is if at the end of the day it's still functionally Fire/Fighting.

I will admit it is my opinion. My opinion that the seal turning into a mermaid is a much better idea than a cheesy 80s humanoid animal action cartoon character.

Kon'Doriano wrote:

To me, Incineroar looks fine and what I said "GAR" I don't mean "awesome" per se (you're very close though since the word is a pretty broad term) but it specifically means "manliness," "masculinity," and "ferocity"and Incineroar has a few of those elements.

Oh. *gags* Perhaps that's part of the reason I hate Incineroar so much.

Quote:

To me, that quote in particular is a load of nonsense. They are free to bring in elements from the 80s and they have the artistic freedom to do so, regardless of the era we live in.

Fine... Let me put it this way. Incineroar is just flat out cheesy to me. When I watch an 80s cartoon I can have fun and laugh at how cheesy it is... Because that was just how things were from that time. I can not do that with Incineroar. Incineroar is just cheesy, and not in a way that I can laugh at. It's just an atrocious design with nothing of value, IMO.

Calling back to 80s cheesiness has to be done in a particular way to be successful. Incineroar missed the mark.

Quote:

Now when you said Meganium, Typlosion, and Torterra are good because they are logical choices from their designs, what did you mean exactly? I get that the designs are consistent through all their stages but that's not good enough because the same can be said for almost every single starter. When I mentioned the starters I mentioned I'm talking about ALL of their evolution stages as well, not just their final forms. All I could interpret from your paragraph is that those 3 are good because they never went from quadrupedal to bipedal creatures like Incineroar did but considering how you like Samurott I doubt that was your point because you acknowledged that being different can be good. So again, what did you mean?

Hm? My point is that following logically from the design of the first evolution is *typically* the best way to go.

I used Samurott is an exception, because exceptions can exist, and they do in fact exist. I don't know where they were going to go with Dewott, but wherever it was could have been an atrocity on the level of Incineroar based on how bad Dewott was. So I'm very glad they went a completely different direction with its final evolution.

It does not come down to quadrupeds being better, and bipeds being lesser. That's not where I make the distinction. Plenty of bipedal starters and Pokemon work... Just not Incineroar, Emboar, Chesnaught and Dewott.

Functionally to you but to everyone else it's still Fire-Dark regardless of it's wrestling inspired gimmick and the fact it's going to have fighting type moves in it's movepool.

What's the point of celebrating that it's not Fire/Fighting when it's still very obviously meant to be a fighter? It seems like GF only came up with the typing so they could say 'hey, it's not another Fire/Fighting, so you can't complain!' Well, they won't fool me.

As if many of the starters had better designs. I daresay his design is far better than the like of Meganium, Typhlosion, Torterra, Emboar, Samurott, and Chesnaught. He's especially better looking than Primarina (a "cute" looking mermaid for a Water starter, really? Even it's Z move is useless). I honestly don't see anything corny about Incineroar's design, it's definitely not the best but it's got a sense of GAR (like Feraligatr) and that to me makes it better looking than the starters I mentioned before.

Fine... Let me put it this way. Incineroar is just flat out cheesy to me. When I watch an 80s cartoon I can have fun and laugh at how cheesy it is... Because that was just how things were from that time. I can not do that with Incineroar. Incineroar is just cheesy, and not in a way that I can laugh at. It's just an atrocious design with nothing of value, IMO.

Calling back to 80s cheesiness has to be done in a particular way to be successful. Incineroar missed the mark.

Wow. I think for the first time in Pokemon history I don't want any of the starters. Ugh. That cat one especially, it looks like some kind of bad fake pokemon bootleg. I guess the water one is the least awful but still. Damn. Makes you really appreciate having 3 awesome choices in red/blue and gold/silver etc lol