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Is anime considered mainstream?


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:11 pm Reply with quote
No, your analogy doesn't work for the reasons I explained, but it's obvious you can't understand the point, so no point in repeating it. And in a sense it doesn't matter because the argument you put forward at the end of your last post far surpasses anything else in the "oh my lord Jesus, she can't possibly be serious, can she?" category.

I refer to your insane Dutch thing. Let's see if I get your "logic" right: If I said that Americans, generally speaking, are fond of baseball that's the same thing as saying that Americans, generally speaking, are fond of killing people? And the reason it's the same is that both claims are based on stereotypes? So it doesn't matter if one assumption is based on a neutral value (being fond of baseball) and the other assumption is based on a negative value (being fond of killing people)? Wow. Just ... wow. I feel like I have entered a whole new realm of inanity.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
No, your analogy doesn't work for the reasons I explained, but it's obvious you can't understand the point, so no point in repeating it. And in a sense it doesn't matter because the argument you put forward at the end of your last post far surpasses anything else in the "oh my lord Jesus, she can't possibly be serious, can she?" category.

I refer to your insane Dutch thing. Let's see if I get your "logic" right: If I said that Americans, generally speaking, are fond of baseball that's the same thing as saying that Americans, generally speaking, are fond of killing people? And the reason it's the same is that both claims are based on stereotypes? So it doesn't matter if one assumption is based on a neutral value (being fond of baseball) and the other assumption is based on a negative value (being fond of killing people)? Wow. Just ... wow. I feel like I have entered a whole new realm of inanity.


Let's be a little less loose with the analogies. The examples I gave were about subjects that people like, not whether people engage in homocide or like to engage in homocide. So I think if you changed that to Americans having a bias in favor of liking baseball vs Americans having a bias in favor of fondness for death and the concept of killing, then yes if one claim is legitimate than the other is too. Explain, using simple objective logic how one is accurate and the other is not. (In other words, stop arguing that you find one offensive and the other not.)
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:47 pm Reply with quote
The question of whether an observation is accurate or not is not relevant to my point. You have taken umbrage to Jose Cruz's theory that Westerners are supposedly more biased towards photo-realism over animated/drawn images. We both agree that observation is wrong, but the difference between us is that you are offended by it. You seem to think that Jose Cruz is, in effect, saying "ha ha, you unsophisticated rubes, you simply can't appreciate the glory of the animated format due to your knavish prejudice in favour of photo-realism - fools!" I mean, obviously I'm exaggerating for effect, but I don't think I am mischaracterizing your position by saying that you view the claim of a bias against animation/drawn images to be a negative value, right?

So that's all we are really arguing about. We both think his observation is wrong. I think the observation expresses a neutral value (we like apples, they like oranges) whereas you think it expresses a negative value (we are too unsophisticated to appreciate the glory of oranges).
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Yes, I think he is assigning a negative value to his claim of Western bias regarding the types of fantastical things that they like. Its not that that merely offends me, but I find any such stereotyped claims about a broad group (such as nationality or similar identity) to be patently absurd, particularly with such a uniquely subjective matter.

But anyway, we obviously won't convince each other about the first point so perhaps we can just somewhat agree on the second Smile
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Well, of course you find stereotyped claims about a broad group (such as nationality or similar identity) to be patently absurd - you're a chick!*








*(Above sentence was written for 100% spoofing purposes and is no way intended to reflect the actual view of the poster. Probably.)
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote
Alright I think you 2 need to go take a breather and chill in your respective corners. You as well Jose Cruz. You have this bad habit of being narrow minded with your views and not listening to any other opinions that conflicts with your own. That does not help foster meaningful discussion.
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Squall-Leonhart17



Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:13 pm Reply with quote
This thread made me realize how niche anime is.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Then my work here is done. Wink
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1773
Location: South America
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101, ok. Just allow me to one final post.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:
This type of argument is wrongheaded because it necessarily relies on a presumption that there is some sort of inherent quality to people "of the west" i.e. people who aren't Japanese in this case, like a gene or a piece of DNA or something that makes them more likely to be biased against "stylization" i.e. anime, in this context. That's the only way you can interpret it, just like it's the only way you can interpret any broad stereotyping claim about such a macro group as "the West." (Again, a less macro version of such generalizations might refer broadly to "the Chinese," or "the French," or in this case, "the Japanese.") You have to assume that there is some inherent quality that this group all share that is objectively qualifiable. Making these types of claims about anything is dicey, at best. Making these types of claims about purely subjective, fantasy-heavy, escapist media like animated works is completely absurd and far beyond any realistic capability of proof.


I think that there is such thing called culture, such a thing called zeitgeist and such thing called civilization. People living inside a cultural sphere/time/civilization are exposed to it and so are influenced by it. Japan and the West (which includes NA, Europe and South America as well other European colonies) are two civilizations, this is well stablished among historians or any other group of intellectuals. They are different in many ways, these differences are manifest in the pop culture they produce. I don't see how that isn't obvious and the existence of those differences are well agreed among scholars in the field of "Japanese cultural studies".

So, you just disagree that those things exist: that populations of any culture at any point in time are all the same on average and you feel offended by the notion that cultural differences exists. Sorry for that.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:23 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Alright I think you 2 need to go take a breather and chill in your respective corners. You as well Jose Cruz. You have this bad habit of being narrow minded with your views and not listening to any other opinions that conflicts with your own. That does not help foster meaningful discussion.


Is it really necessary to come in a day after Blood and I finished our argument just to get in that jab? I don't think so.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:39 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I had the same thought. Especially since it's pretty clear from our respective last posts that we had ended our discussion on a jocular note.
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