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INTEREST: Inuyashiki's Trump Cameo Sure Isn't Flattering


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Weazul-chan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 624
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:01 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
Weazul-chan wrote:
let me ask you something - why is it okay to consider all Muslims are terrorists because some radical Muslims are but not okay to consider Westboro Baptist as representative of all American Christianity? that's more of an apples to apples thing than what you're talking about.


Does Westboro drive trucks through shopping centers? I don't know, I've never heard of them doing anything other than picketing. I am not be the most unbiased person to ask because we have Muslim attacks almost every week here.
If they did would you consider them representative of all American Christians?

And if you want to get into stuff Muslim terrorists have done, they've also bombed Islamic mosques. Radicalized Muslims may have no qualms about non-radicalized Muslims being in the crossfire or even actively targeted.

Radicalized Islam seeks to regress Islamic society. When Islam emerged one of the principles were women were the moral equal of men in God's eyes. They didn't have all the rights as men, but they had more rights in early Islamic society than in other Arabic societies atthe time, where the norm was men could marry and divorce as many women as they wanted. Islam set limits on polygyny, gave women the right to have a choice in marriage, made them more than just property. Early Islam changed it so the bride price wasn't paid to the woman's male relatives, but to the woman herself and made it so a woman could inherit. Seriously, in early Muslim women actually had a lot more rights and protection and even influence than other women at the time.

And that's just talking about how progressive early Islam was compared to the norm at the time in that area. They were even making further progress over the centuries and decades until radicalized Islam started taking the scene. There's other ways in which early Islam was pretty progressive as well.

When you lump all Muslims in with the radical terrorists you're lumping the average Muslim person in with extremists who are willing to see them as targets as well and who want to regress parts of Islamic culture so far back they follow pre-Islamic norms. Does that sound fair?


Last edited by Weazul-chan on Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Snomaster1
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Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 2294
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:27 am Reply with quote
If you want my honest opinion,that scene in "Inuyashiki" wasn't done well at all. There was no reason for me to laugh at it,if that's what the people who made it were going for. The best political humor gives you reason to laugh at it and it doesn't have to be mean spirited. This scene was just plain nasty and cruel. The best shows of this type of humor,Not Necessarily The News" and "Spitting Image" usually tried to be funny. They used topical humor but they were trying to get a laugh and more often than not,they succeeded.
And,the best practitioners of this type of humor,those like Johnny Carson and Jay Leno,often made fun of both sides of the political aisle. Heck,even the early years of "Saturday Night Live" knew to do that. Sure,they took swipes at politicians but the reason that humor's lasted longer and can be funny even now is that they knew that the joke came first. That lesson seems to have been lost now.

These days,they're not even trying for a laugh. It's more about taking swipes at political enemies and being mean spirited and nasty rather than making a good joke or being funny. Even during the days of Ronald Reagan,some of the humor could get nasty but not a lot of it. They were out for a laugh and a lot of times,the other side would be equal treatment.
For years,conservatives have been the proverbial punching bag throughout a lot of American popular culture and that's because a lot of it is in the hands of the political left in the U.S. And a lot of people on my side of the aisle felt angry that no one made fun of Barack Obama like they did with the other presidents. There was this belief that a lot of the media shilled for the Obama administration and never went after him like they did with Trump and a lot of times it's been hard not to feel that way.

For a long time now,I've often mentioned here that I'm a writer and I've written a lot of stories,skits,and a few plays over the years. But,what popped into your heads when you read about what I do? Many of you probably think that because of my politics,my writings would be chocked to the brim with characters that are just old fashioned stereotypes and caricatures of every minority group that my vivid imagination could come up with or that I'd dream up something like that. Sheesh! I'd hate to think of the titles of the stuff or the plots of the stuff you'd think I'd come up with. Well,sorry to break to you guys but it's not the case. I would never do that nor could I do that. But,that's what a lot of liberals or people on the left would think about someone like me. Someone who's capable of thinking or doing things like that.
Now,I want you to imagine something. Something that people like Wandering Samurai and myself have been seen subjected to for a long time now and how you'd feel about it. Imagine that for years,you were told that you were called a bigot just because you were a conservative. That you were a racist,sexist,homophobic,Islamophobic creep simply because you disagreed with the Obama administration on anything. Imagine having to hear that for any length of time,especially for eight years,even when you knew that you were nothing like what these people were saying about you or those who thought like you. Not exactly fun,isn't it? But,that's what we've had to deal with for a long time now. Most conservative or right leaning people aren't these knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who are worthy only of scorn,condescension,or contempt. Unfortunately,that's what many on the left seem to think of people like me. I'd never do that to people like you,so why do it to people like me?

I'd like to close by saying this. If much of the mainstream media,including CNN or MSNBC knew about this thing,they'd probably get a kick out of it. Heck,they'd probably enjoy it. They don't like Trump and would probably have this on their computers or show this everywhere they could. Yeah,they'd enjoy something like this. It's doubtful that others would.


Last edited by Snomaster1 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Just Passing Through



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 262
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:43 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Guile wrote:


Does Westboro drive trucks through shopping centers? I don't know, I've never heard of them doing anything other than picketing. I am not be the most unbiased person to ask because we have Muslim attacks almost every week here.


Is here the U.S.? where we don't have attacks that actually succeed every week? the U.K.? which by their own admission their workloads makes it hard to prevent most of these attacks, or somewhere around Asia/Africa where other Muslims are typically the victims of these extremists?


The Muslim attacks in the UK are piddly compared to the Christian attacks we used to get. Body count and the destruction was way, way higher. Thankfully the NI peace process dialled that back. But even now, I hear an Ulster accent on a bus. I get the driver to stop, and call the authorities. Just in case. Cos you know, they're all the same.

Where's the sarcasm smiley when you need it?
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1727
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:19 pm Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
If you want my honest opinion,that scene in "Inuyashiki" wasn't done well at all. There was no reason for me to laugh at it,if that's what the people who made it were going for. The best political humor gives you reason to laugh at it and it doesn't have to be mean spirited. This scene was just plain nasty and cruel.


Cruel? Why? Just showed Trump as a narcissistic and selfish person. He is unabashedly both, in fact, this portrayal of him was less "cruel" and more dignified than how he usually acts in reality.

Quote:
These days,they're not even trying for a laugh. It's more about taking swipes at political enemies and being mean spirited and nasty rather than making a good joke or being funny. Even during the days of Ronald Reagan,some of the humor could get nasty but not a lot of it. They were out for a laugh and a lot of times,the other side would be equal treatment.


I fully agree with you in that respect. US political satire now is completely off the rails. It is not satire anymore but just harsh aggression on their political enemies, yes, enemies because Trump is the ENEMY of mainstream US media. Thing is that the US today is not a true democracy anymore in the sense that there is no dialogue between different political points of view. Instead there is only hatred of one group against the other.

Since the left controls most of the media outlets (as they control the big cities where the media centers are) and the left does not accept the existence of the right and that Trump is actually a perfect punching bag for them since Trump is a terrible thing for the US right, given the fact that he is a clown. Just like Bernie would be a terrible thing for the US left, if Bernie got elected he would seriously damage the democratic party which is why the democrats didn't let him win the primaries.

Quote:
For years,conservatives have been the proverbial punching bag throughout a lot of American popular culture and that's because a lot of it is in the hands of the political left in the U.S. And a lot of people on my side of the aisle felt angry that no one made fun of Barack Obama like they did with the other presidents. There was this belief that a lot of the media shilled for the Obama administration and never went after him like they did with Trump and a lot of times it's been hard not to feel that way.


That is because Obama was a very serious, sensible and intelligent politician. He left very little room for humorous satire of him. While Trump is a clown, which is very easy to satirize.

While Trump is not a real conservative by the way, Trump was affiliated with the democrats before 1987 and his actions show no overall adherence with a conservative political program in the tradition of conservative philosophy like Edmund Burke. His political ideology appears to be actually rather similar to the Italian Fascists and to the German National Socialists of the 1920s and 1930s, but a more clownish version of then.

Read these articles:

https://niskanencenter.org/blog/climate-change-denial-historical-consciousness-trumpism-lessons-carl-schmitt/

According to his analysis Trump's ideology is derived from Carl Schmitt's or at least it is very similar.

This comment nails it:
Gregory Scott wrote:
Weiner is a bit over-delicate in not pointing out that Carl Schmitt joined the Nazis, and much of his work can be understood as a justification of their policies. Still, populist nationalism does indeed have some rhyming relation to fascism. It will not assume the same strength. First time tragedy, second time comedy.


Trump has nothing to do with real Burkean conservatism.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4369
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:12 pm Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
For years,conservatives have been the proverbial punching bag throughout a lot of American popular culture and that's because a lot of it is in the hands of the political left in the U.S.


No the reason why conservatives are punching bags is because followers of the ideology (not all of them of course) tend to things that aren't really.....well thought out.

Whether it's

- Defending pedophiles (while condemning gays for being likely to commit it).
- Supporting or outright discriminating against people of different genders, races, econ. background or religion.
- Occasionally calling for war when not necessary.
- Treating certain groups (like rich people) like they're a class that should be protected
- Touting how big they are on family while cheating on their spouses.
- Or manufacturing controversies like there being a "war on Christmas".

Stuff like this is why they get mocked.


Snomaster1 wrote:
And a lot of people on my side of the aisle felt angry that no one made fun of Barack Obama like they did with the other presidents.


....Obama did get made fun and was even criticized by liberals.

Snomaster1 wrote:
But,what popped into your heads when you read about what I do? Many of you probably think that because of my politics,my writings would be chocked to the brim with characters that are just old fashioned stereotypes and caricatures of every minority group that my vivid imagination could come up with or that I'd dream up something like that.


No actually.



Snomaster1 wrote:
Now,I want you to imagine something. Something that people like Wandering Samurai and myself have been seen subjected to for a long time now and how you'd feel about it. Imagine that for years,you were told that you were called a bigot just because you were a conservative.


I'm not of the mind that being simply a conservative makes you any of those things....but when you see people wear their views on their sleeves it gets hard to deny that stuff. And in the case of the Republican party as I alluded to earlier it does not help their cause when members of the party or their own base are not repudiated for these problematic views and even worse is when those people painfully try to justify those views or worse deny it when there's pretty damning evidence to prove otherwise.


Snomaster1 wrote:
Most conservative or right leaning people aren't these knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who are worthy only of scorn,condescension,or contempt.


By the same token most of them are not forward thinking people who should be taken seriously. Them going for Republicans in 2010 and Trump in 2016 like they did to the extent they did definitely doesn't help their case. If these people don't want scorn condescension, or contempt then they must do better than the Trumps, Paul Ryans, Mitch McConnells, Scott Walkers, Rick Scott, Sam Brownbacks, Steve Kings etc of Federal and State Politics while also joining the rest of us in the 21st century.


Jose Cruz wrote:
Just like Bernie would be a terrible thing for the US left, if Bernie got elected he would seriously damage the democratic party which is why the democrats didn't let him win the primaries.


Actually Bernie didn't win the primaries because he was running against a more notable candidate who simply got more votes then him....not because of either of those two things.
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 509
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:48 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

Is here the U.S.? where we don't have attacks that actually succeed every week? the U.K.? which by their own admission their workloads makes it hard to prevent most of these attacks, or somewhere around Asia/Africa where other Muslims are typically the victims of these extremists?


I am Dutch. It's a common view in a lot of European countries.

Weazul-chan wrote:
If they did would you consider them representative of all American Christians?


If it was like centuries ago where speaking out against the church meant punishment via death, then yes. Any ideology that promotes violence in the name of a religion seems dangerous and should be condemned. The difference is modern Christians don't, or can't do that anymore. Maybe one day Islam will lose its power and radicalization like Christianity did.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16603
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
Does Westboro drive trucks through shopping centers? I don't know, I've never heard of them doing anything other than picketing. I am not be the most unbiased person to ask because we have Muslim attacks almost every week here.

When you referring to something being a common view in Europe, were you referring to how Westboro is regarded? They're pretty commonly regarded in the U.S. as Christian extremists, with the main difference between them and ISIS or the Taliban being that they're unarmed. (And that may be because armed Christian extremism is virtually universally regarded as unacceptable, at least in the States.) That doesn't make their behavior any less repugnant, though.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4369
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
Any ideology that promotes violence in the name of a religion seems dangerous and should be condemned.The difference is modern Christians don't, or can't do that anymore.


Actually

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014#Impact

https://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_modern_day_christian_terrorist_groups_our_media_conveniently_ignores_partner/

https://thinkprogress.org/why-obama-is-right-about-christian-violence-8e6d4f68a894/

They can do this stuff if they choose so, as long as they're led to believe certain things and in turn believe certain actions in relation to those aforementioned beliefs is wholly justified even if contradictory these actions will of course happen. Like being led to believe abortion is a sin, which in turn leads to someone claiming they're pro-life and then shooting an abortion doctor in a church.


Guile wrote:
Maybe one day Islam will lose its power and radicalization like Christianity did.


...Christianity has not lost it's influence or power with regards to Government in countries like the U.S. or Russia. The U.S. in particular is teetering on turning into a theocracy something that shouldn't even be a thing in 2017.
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