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Ryutai
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:42 am
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Beautiful adaptation of this part of the manga. I disagree with Gabriella about her interpretation of Akira's dream. I know she was probably a bit sarcastic, but her comment belittled all the symbolism of that scene.
During the hug, Kondo thought "he wanted to get wet by Akira's rain".
Everyone should know at this point, that the rain in this story is a metaphor of the characters' inner pain. So, he embraced "her pain". During Akira's dream, we saw her point of view of that hug. Kondo's body was represented like rain, so when she embraced him, she accepted "his rain" (pain), exactly like Kondo did with her. But this comfort is only ephemeral: indeed Kondo disappeared between her arms. So, I found Akira's dream, extremely poetic. I am not denying it was also implied that imagination induced in her some kind of sexual excitement, it's natural since she is in love, but what she felt was way more than only that, and it was painful, since she is trying with all herself to forget her pain caused from her trauma linked to running, absorbing her body and mind in this impossible love, that being "impossible", can't work like complete escapism anyway.
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bemused Bohemian
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 404
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:03 pm
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^ Well said, Ryutai. I thought Gabriella's comments missed the mark in places also. I found her interpretation of the "connection" too blunt, direct rather than intended as a more ephemeral, poetic response to these two individuals' collective pain. I also thought Gabriella was a tad harsh re Kase this time around too. If Kase was consistent as the character heel Gariella implies he would not have chosen to go elsewhere to eat than that stockroom / office rendezvous point at a time Akira was trying to re-establish in her mind more validation past being merely smitten with Kondo.
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Panino Manino
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 737
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:41 pm
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I'm a bit sad.
First they cut the bald spot, now they cut the detail about Akira's sandwiches... I can see now that this adaptation will cover only half the story and end with an original ending alongside with the end of the manga and the premiere of the movie.
At least I can feel the detractors starting to accept that this story is actually not creepy at all. I really want to see if the most angry haters will tergiversate and make a mea culpa.
Ryutai wrote: | Beautiful adaptation of this part of the manga. I disagree with Gabriella about her interpretation of Akira's dream. I know she was probably a bit sarcastic, but her comment belittled all the symbolism of that scene.
During the hug, Kondo thought "he wanted to get wet by Akira's rain".
Everyone should know at this point, that the rain in this story is a metaphor of the characters' inner pain. So, he embraced "her pain". During Akira's dream, we saw her point of view of that hug. Kondo's body was represented like rain, so when she embraced him, she accepted "his rain" (pain), exactly like Kondo did with her. But this comfort is only ephemeral: indeed Kondo disappeared between her arms. So, I found Akira's dream, extremely poetic. I am not denying it was also implied that imagination induced in her some kind of sexual excitement, it's natural since she is in love, but what she felt was way more than only that, and it was painful, since she is trying with all herself to forget her pain caused from her trauma linked to running, absorbing her body and mind in this impossible love, that being "impossible", can't work like complete escapism anyway. |
X _PANINO MANINO______
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Fluwm
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 889
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:18 pm
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I haven’t seen many original endings lately. I expect, rather, the anime to simple end, possible to conclude with another season, later, like Kimi no Todoke ( which has had two loooong seasons and a manga that keeps going well after the point it should have stopped).
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#Verso.Sciolto
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:17 pm
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To me, this still seems like a campaign ad, a "how to manual" for successfully enticing a vulnerable high school student into a long term commitment - a manual for middle aged "gentlemen" on how to "pull it off" without even raising suspicion. The sort of scenario that so frequently shows in gaslighting efforts after another "nice guy" is accused of doing something "inappropriate".
Would anyone believe Akira if she came to the family restaurant the next day and told her co-workers she was quitting because the family man manager had taken advantage of her the night before? In the moments we didn't get to see - before he arranged for a driver to take her home, after ...?
It can be said that the cook doesn't enter with his meal that time because he hears voices inside and he only wants to be in there, be in that room with her, when he can be alone with the teenager he targets. To work her over. Also, on a separate occasion the brash cook once again proves an unreliable deterrent to Akira because he isn't meant to convince her that giving up on the manager is the right thing to do - from the perspective of the patient statutory rapists. We've been told repeatedly that it is a bad idea for a teenager to be alone with someone like the cook but she's perfectly safe with the manager type. His mere presence a deterrent for the "real" threat - or so we are lead to believe.
After the Rain is, in my opinion, perpetuating several rape myths. Lulls potential targets into a sense of complacency because in contrast to the brash cook the kind manager can be trusted when they're alone. She wouldn't even think to report the manager - because, as we are told repeatedly - it is what she would have wanted all along. Or so we are told.
Can you see it from this perspective?
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rahzel rose
Subscriber
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 824
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:02 pm
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#Verso.Sciolto wrote: | Can you see it from this perspective? |
Not at all, actually. And the fact that it is all you seem to see is actually just really sad to me more than anything. Why are you still watching the show, if this is all you're getting out of it? Why did you even start watching it to begin with?
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#Verso.Sciolto
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:13 pm
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rahzel rose wrote: |
#Verso.Sciolto wrote: | Can you see it from this perspective? |
Not at all, actually. And the fact that it is all you seem to see is actually just really sad to me more than anything. Why are you still watching the show, if this is all you're getting out of it? Why did you even start watching it to begin with? |
To see for myself and use the opportunity to comment on the series as well as on the society in which this story is set.
"It" isn't all I see and have said so before. There are many problematic aspects to this series as far as I'm concerned. One of them the history re-writing After the Rain appears to be of older animated series.
Can I ask you to answer this question about "it"?
Quote: | Would anyone believe Akira if she came to the family restaurant the next day and told her co-workers she was quitting because the family man manager had taken advantage of her the night before? |
Taking into consideration that the story is set in Japan in what appears to be the present time.
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jenthehen
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:30 pm
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#Verso.Sciolto wrote: | To me, this still seems like a campaign ad, a "how to manual" for successfully enticing a vulnerable high school student into a long term commitment - a manual for middle aged "gentlemen" on how to "pull it off" without even raising suspicion. The sort of scenario that so frequently shows in gaslighting efforts after another "nice guy" is accused of doing something "inappropriate".
Would anyone believe Akira if she came to the family restaurant the next day and told her co-workers she was quitting because the family man manager had taken advantage of her the night before? In the moments we didn't get to see - before he arranged for a driver to take her home, after ...?
It can be said that the cook doesn't enter with his meal that time because he hears voices inside and he only wants to be in there, be in that room with her, when he can be alone with the teenager he targets. To work her over. Also, on a separate occasion the brash cook once again proves an unreliable deterrent to Akira because he isn't meant to convince her that giving up on the manager is the right thing to do - from the perspective of the patient statutory rapists. We've been told repeatedly that it is a bad idea for a teenager to be alone with someone like the cook but she's perfectly safe with the manager type. His mere presence a deterrent for the "real" threat - or so we are lead to believe.
After the Rain is, in my opinion, perpetuating several rape myths. Lulls potential targets into a sense of complacency because in contrast to the brash cook the kind manager can be trusted when they're alone. She wouldn't even think to report the manager - because, as we are told repeatedly - it is what she would have wanted all along. Or so we are told.
Can you see it from this perspective? |
Are we even watching the same show? This sounds unhinged.
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hissatsu01
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:44 pm
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#Verso.Sciolto wrote: | Can you see it from this perspective? |
Congrats, you've discovered the awful truth. In the final episode they'll reveal Kondou is actually a serial sexual predator that merely poses as the harmless bumbling dad type to lure vulnerable, naive school girls into his trap. Won't all the people giving the show high reviews now feel silly then! But you saw through his disguise. Very perceptive.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2245
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:48 pm
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jenthehen wrote: | Are we even watching the same show? This sounds unhinged. |
I could sort of see this if you squint really, really hard and remove basically all the trappings of After the Rain's in-universe establishments. Plus its subtext. And the text--this is basically Death of the Author in its most extreme form.
Like, yes, in the real world, older men can and do prey upon young girls. But After the Rain is clearly not *that* kind of story because it's not operating in *that* kind of world. And this is coming from someone who leans more into Gabriella's interpretation of the characters than Panino Manino's.
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#Verso.Sciolto
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 pm
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hissatsu01 wrote: |
#Verso.Sciolto wrote: | Can you see it from this perspective? |
Congrats, you've discovered the awful truth. In the final episode they'll reveal Kondou is actually a serial sexual predator that merely poses as the harmless bumbling dad type to lure vulnerable, naive school girls into his trap [...]. |
That would actually be counterproductive for the gaslighting purposes - the scenario as sketched - from that perspective as outlined.
Excerpt:
whiskey wrote: | ... remove basically all the trappings of After the Rain's in-universe establishments ... |
Akutagawa is referenced in universe. The first comment I posted in this thread also made specific reference to the reviewer taking a detached, outside the universe, position on what the show makes us conclude about the characters. As critics we must step outside and we can question whether or not we see the events and intent the same way; question if we're willing to go along with the deduced intentions of the mangaka or -as is the case here- with the animators who are creating the adaptation.
Gabriella Ekens wrote, among other things, in the Episode 4 review:
Quote: | "it's clear that we're supposed to..." |
That is an out of universe observation about the intent of the series and the characters depicted.
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Ryutai
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:00 am
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Panino Manino wrote: | I'm a bit sad.
First they cut the bald spot, now they cut the detail about Akira's sandwiches... I can see now that this adaptation will cover only half the story and end with an original ending alongside with the end of the manga and the premiere of the movie.
At least I can feel the detractors starting to accept that this story is actually not creepy at all. I really want to see if the most angry haters will tergiversate and make a mea culpa.
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Sadly, I guess we'll get an anime original ending too. I hoped for a full adaptation of the manga, since the second half of the story, more clearly focused on the personal struggles of characters than on the romance, which is more the means used to explore their lives than the main topic, is also more beautiful than the first half. Koi Ame isn't obviously only a romance series, is way more than this, but in these first 7 episodes, obviously the deepest topics of the plot have been only marginally touched, even tho the hints are there (see the shots on Kondo's manuscripts).
I am sorry for people who are interpreting this series like a "manual for sexual predators", missing completely the real nature of the plot. As a female fan of Koi Ame, to me it's absolutely absurd like they distort both Akira and Kondo characters, like if their bond was born from Kondo's sexual predator instinct. Honestly, I feel also a bit insulted, because it's like they implied that women like me, who are appreciating this story, are too stupid to understand they are enjoying "a manual for rapers".
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Ryutai
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:08 am
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Basically, they are not expressing an opinion on the actual show, but they sound like those Disney detractors who see some weird subliminal messages in Disney movies all the time.
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Panino Manino
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 737
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am
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#Verso.Sciolto wrote: |
Can you see it from this perspective? |
If you're really writing all this seriously and sincerely... maybe it's time to stop and get help. Seriously, I'm not concerned at all about the anime but I'm started to get concerned about you. It seems that you have a very unhealthy view of the world. Yes, it's good to be a bit cynical and skeptic for your own good, but there are limits, this is a bit too much. We can't really comment along with you because you're discussion things that didn't happened, that's the truth. You are not really watching, you may be looking at the screen and listening to the characters but what you're getting from it are just delusions. You built a huge farce about this story and you are just forcing yourself to confirm that it's true and refusing to accept any evidence on the contrary and it is... "creepy".
And a bit sad, it's not funny anymore.
Why don't you stop watching this and go do something more enjoyable and productive for you? Oh, watch Yuru Camp, that one can help, I hope.
I'll be cheering for you, good vibrations.
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Errinundra
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6524
Location: Melbourne, Oz
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:02 pm
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Please talk about the anime and not each other.
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