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Rob24



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:51 pm Reply with quote
So my brother got permanently banned not too long ago. Firstly I want to emphasize that I am not here to complain about the ban on his behalf. As a gay man I understand why his comments were considered problematic even though I know he meant well. So please don't delete this post for that reason.

As upset as my brother is about the whole situation, he still cares about this site and would like to offer feedback on some systematic issues that made things more frustating.

Upon finding out he was banned, my brother e-mailed "[email protected]" as instructed and asked for why he was banned and for how long it would last. He did this three times over a three week period and never recieved a response. I don't think I need to explain what the issue is there. Why have the e-mail if you're just going to ignore anything sent there? (Granted we have no way of knowing if this is just an isolated incident or of it happens with other people too.)

Eventually he sent an e-mail to the editor address and he finally got in touch with some one. They did explain the situation and said his ban was being discussed. Some more time later he finally got the confirmation that his ban was permanent.

Now he's willing to be amicable about it but then he was given more details about why he was banned. That "he is a clear example of creating a toxic atmosphere" and he "was on final warning at the time of his ban for his conduct". He was pretty shocked to hear that because that was all news to him. He admits that he could get pretty bad at times (no arguments from me there) but had no idea it was that serious. According to him he never recieved any formal warnings, just mods telling him to adjust his behaviour within the context of a single discussion, rather than his behaviour in general. Upon looking through past posts myself that's the interpretation I come away with too. There was one time he was almost put on moderation for a comment he made, but that was the worst of it in the 6+ years he'd been active on the site. And upon recieving that warning he made sure not to make such comments again.

If those warnings were meant to be formal ones that was not communicated clearly. If one of those warnings was his "final warning" then no one told him that was the case. If he knew he was on thin ice he would have adjusted his behaviour accordingly.

Most people are decent and if you give them a chance they can better themselves. But that's not possible if the moderators don't clearly communicate the seriousness of their warnings. It's too late for my brother but we both hope going forward others can avoid his fate.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4034
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:21 pm Reply with quote
I always perceived Vaisaga as a fairly polite user and definitely not a toxic one. Aside from the new rules thread, I don't remember Vaisaga having a habit of getting into trouble with the mods. Vaisaga was sometimes rigid, but I never thought of him as a troublemaker. So I'm honestly shocked to see him get banned. Was Vaisaga ever even on moderation?

Well, this'll probably get locked but it is sad to see one of the most active users on the forum get banned.
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Rob24



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Cam0 wrote:
Was Vaisaga ever even on moderation?


Nope. He had never received any sort of formal punishment before this.
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Calathan
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 6877
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:08 pm Reply with quote
I learned that Vaisaga had been banned when he made an alternate account and PMed me. Looking at his last few posts, it was clear that he was banned because of things he wrote in the new forum rules thread. While I agree that his posts there were inappropriate, I nevertheless disagreed with him being banned. While there might have been more things happening that I was unaware of, I had never been aware of inappropriate behavior from him before then. As far as I could tell, he had a long history of constructive posting, and it seemed shocking to me that he could just be shown the door for one mistake (again, there could be more that I'm unaware of).

I'm very sorry to say this, but this incident made me lose confidence in the site management (or whoever makes the banning decisions). His banning for what seemed to me like one incident made it feel like you want us all to be perfect, and don't really see us as real people who have flaws and will sometimes have bad days. While I found his comments in that one thread inappropriate, even offensive, I also felt like Vaisaga was a member of our community, and generally a positive and productive one. I felt like there must have been some better way to make it clear to him that further comments of that sort would not be tolerated, rather than just permanently banning him from the site.
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Psycho 101
Moderator


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 14798
Location: Inn of the Last Home
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:19 pm Reply with quote
For starters this is rather ridiculous that he's now going to these lengths. He heard from the site CEO. He's already made an alt account and messaged other users to get them to stick up for him. Now this? Let me make quite clear something we mods have had to repeat many times lately already. We do NOT ban people. Only admin can. So once they ban a user any communication with them has to be via ADMIN, not moderators. We do not have access to the email accounts used to sign up here by users, nor any of the @ann email accounts. That is all admin only, along with banning, at this point in time. So claiming there was unsatisfactory moderator communication is entirely false. If he felt the admin did not respond in a more timely manner then that is between him and the admin.

Rob24 wrote:
Cam0 wrote:
Was Vaisaga ever even on moderation?


Nope. He had never received any sort of formal punishment before this.


That is stretching the truth. Was he ever actually put on moderation? No. Was he warned by mods for his behavior many times? Yes. As you mentioned he was at the time of his banning on final warning status before being placed on moderation. He was told about that by the mods. He's been warned by me personally several times, and he was warned about his conduct in the very thread discussing the new rules by Errinundra. He ignored errinundra and kept on with it. He was warned by mods several times over his time here in regards to his conduct. He was also reported by users quite frequently for his conduct and behavior.

So claiming he was unaware of any of this is entirely false and disingenuous on his part. Whether he simply lied, withheld that, ignored it, or if you know he was and are bs'ing us here, does not matter. It does not change the fact he was most assuredly warned several times about his conduct by the mods. Hell, as I already mentioned he was even acting up in the new rules discussion thread itself. The discussion where it was made clear such behavior was not going to fly here anymore. He, and several others, put a big fat target right on their heads by doing that. He personally has a long history of bad faith arguing with users and staff, insulting users & staff, entirely mysognisitc posts, and soapboxing about straight white males being targeted by the rules (not just in the new rules discussion but several times in various loli discussions over his time here). The last 2 clearly fell under the new rules and toxic atmosphere people had been complaining about. He also cannot claim this was personal as the admin banned a large handful of users. Many due to their own behavior in that new rules discussion thread when they all basically ousted themselves as the very problem being discussed.

We also only have your word you are actually his brother, or that he even has one. No offense meant, but it's not as if we have any real proof. Assuming you truly are his brother then I re-iterate he was most definitely aware of his status here. The emails he sent were also brought up by Tempest in the staff section and the moderators discussed them and what to do about his status before giving Tempest and Zac our recommendation regarding him. So part of why he did not get an immediate response is the fact the issue was under discussion. The result of that discussion was the mods, and other staff, agreed he should remain banned at this point in time. I personally said he should stay banned for at least 6 months. Zac and Tempest have given out temp bans before as opposed to permanent bans in the past. My personal opinion was that he, and the rest who got the boot thanks to their conduct during the new rules discussion, should at least serve a 6 month temp ban before being allowed back. If and when allowed back he, and the others, would also go right onto moderation status as well. That is solely my own opinion. I will not speak for the direct personal opinions of others. They can if they so choose. Regardless, whatever the admin decided and conveyed to him is up to them. Yes they ask us for our opinions and feedback but at the end of the day they run the show. If he has, as you put it, "feedback on some systematic issues that made things more frustrating," then that is also something to email to the admins.


Calathan wrote:

I'm very sorry to say this, but this incident made me lose confidence in the site management (or whoever makes the banning decisions). His banning for what seemed to me like one incident made it feel like you want us all to be perfect, and don't really see us as real people who have flaws and will sometimes have bad days. While I found his comments in that one thread inappropriate, even offensive, I also felt like Vaisaga was a member of our community, and generally a positive and productive one. I felt like there must have been some better way to make it clear to him that further comments of that sort would not be tolerated, rather than just permanently banning him from the site.

As I pointed out that was hardly a singular incident. It was the last in a long series of incidents that were unacceptable. All of which was inf act relayed to him. Numerous times. Being productive or posting a lot does not mean you get a pass on the rules. Neither does being a subscriber. We've moderated and banned others even more "productive" than him, some of which were paid subscribers, due to their continued conduct.


Cam0 wrote:
I always perceived Vaisaga as a fairly polite user and definitely not a toxic one. Aside from the new rules thread, I don't remember Vaisaga having a habit of getting into trouble with the mods. Vaisaga was sometimes rigid, but I never thought of him as a troublemaker. So I'm honestly shocked to see him get banned. Was Vaisaga ever even on moderation?

Well, this'll probably get locked but it is sad to see one of the most active users on the forum get banned.

There were several "active" users who for too long skirted the rules. There were too many who did just enough to prevent themselves from being banned under the old "simply be civil" rules. The new rules primary goal is to remove such users who clearly promoted a toxic atmosphere, insulted and made users feel unwelcome, and were a general disturbance to forums. I'm glad you had a nice amicable relationship with him but that was not the case for everyone. He was often a problematic user we got reports about quite often.

As for locking this thread I personally am not going to. Not yet. It can stay open so his brother can await a response by admin, or other mods/staff, if they so choose to give one. However, this is not going to turn into some public spectacle or debate on Vaisaga by the users like some sort of trial. So anyone else wishing to chime in with their opinions should please just save their breath.


Last edited by Psycho 101 on Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Calathan
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 6877
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101, thank you for your reply explaining the situation. My interactions with Vaisaga were almost solely in the character guessing game thread (I only rarely post in any other threads), and I hadn't seen any bad behavior from him there. But if he has been causing problems elsewhere on the site, and had been warned repeatedly about that behavior, then the banning makes more sense to me. It wasn't clear to me that he was on thin ice, but as long as it was clear to him, then banning him seems more reasonable. I'd still like to think there is some way to get through to him that his behavior was hurtful to people and get him to behave better in the future, but maybe I'm seeing things through rose-tinted glasses.
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Rob24



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
He's already made an alt account and messaged other users to get them to stick up for him.


Not really. While he did make an alt account it was for the purpose of messaging Tempest after 3 weeks of silence from the banned e-mail because he could think of no other way to contact the admin. He did message Calathan at the same time but that was for the sake of giving him a farewell message to post in the character thread should the ban be permanent, similar to what I posted today. Obviously I can't produce the PM he sent but Calathan might.

Quote:
We do NOT ban people. Only admin can. So once they ban a user any communication with them has to be via ADMIN, not moderators. We do not have access to the email accounts used to sign up here by users, nor any of the @ann email accounts. That is all admin only, along with banning, at this point in time. So claiming there was unsatisfactory moderator communication is entirely false.


In the e-mails with Mr. Macdonald he said "whether your ban is lifted or not is up to the moderators" so it sure sounded like the moderators had the final say. But if we misunderstood this then we apologise.

Quote:
That is stretching the truth. Was he ever actually put on moderation? No. Was he warned by mods for his behavior many times? Yes. As you mentioned he was at the time of his banning on final warning status before being placed on moderation. He was told about that by the mods. He's been warned by me personally several times, and he was warned about his conduct in the very thread discussing the new rules by Errinundra. He ignored errinundra and kept on with it. He was warned by mods several times over his time here in regards to his conduct. He was also reported by users quite frequently for his conduct and behavior.


Again, the severity of those warnings were not communicated clearly. A cop might pull you over and casually warn you your tail light is out, or they might give you an official written warning that goes on your record. Most warnings he got he interpreted as the former. This warning is nice and clear, but it was the only time he's been threatened with punishment. While the words "final warning" aren't in there it says moderation is the next step. Moderation, not ban. If he was told "drop it or you're banned" he probably would have.

In the new rules thread one of the people antagonizing him was clearly told they were almost banned for their behaviour. We think that level of directness is most desirable.

Quote:
He personally has a long history of bad faith arguing with users and staff, insulting users & staff, entirely mysognisitc posts, and soapboxing about straight white males being targeted by the rules (not just in the new rules discussion but several times in various loli discussions over his time here).


I find it hard to believe that, if he was really that bad, you waited over 6 years to do anything more serious than just warn him. And obviously I'm going to believe him over you.

Again, it's not my intent to complain about the fact he was banned, but that how close he was to being banned was not communicated clearly. I do believe he wasn't given a fair chance, though. His comments in the rule thread (which, again, I understand were seen as problematic) weren't because of some inherent bigotry, it's because he's been harassed by members of the LGBTQ+ community in the past and the moderators of that community did nothing to help. He just wanted reassurance that it wouldn't happen here.

Quote:
We also only have your word you are actually his brother, or that he even has one


Including me he's got 3 and 1 sister. I made this account years ago but didn't really use it since I prefer to lurk.

Quote:
and contacted the site engineer/admin privately


Wait, why are you listing this as a bad thing? You were saying he had to talk to the admin about it, which he did. He just reached them through the [email protected] e-mail instead of the [email protected] e-mail.

Quote:
So part of why he did not get an immediate response is the fact the issue was under discussion.


And the fact that it was under discussion should have been communicated to him. Instead he had 3 weeks of silence with no idea what was going on.

Quote:
It wasn't clear to me that he was on thin ice, but as long as it was clear to him


It wasn't.
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Psycho 101
Moderator


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 14798
Location: Inn of the Last Home
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:39 am Reply with quote
Quote:
In the e-mails with Mr. Macdonald he said "whether your ban is lifted or not is up to the moderators" so it sure sounded like the moderators had the final say. But if we misunderstood this then we apologise.

Let me attempt to clarify. The mods do discuss putting users on moderation or if we feel a user should be banned. In the case of Vaisaga, and the other users related to that new rules discussion, we were asked for our opinions. We gave them to Tempest and Zac and we (the mods and some other staff) discussed the issue. Ultimately though only admins can ban a user or lift bans, so that is at their discretion. We can give them our opinions, which we did, but they make the final call based on what we've told them and their own opinions. So when he asked us our opinions the mods agreed we felt the ban should stay in effect. He obviously then chose to agree with us as he did not rescind the ban.Sometimes the admin agree with us, sometimes they don't. We are in effect assistant managers for an analogy. He and the other admin are the owners of the store. They hired us to do a job and it would be beholden upon them to ask and listen to our opinions, but in the end they own the store. Hope that clarifies.

Quote:
Again, the severity of those warnings were not communicated clearly. A cop might pull you over and casually warn you your tail light is out, or they might give you an official written warning that goes on your record. Most warnings he got he interpreted as the former. This warning is nice and clear, but it was the only time he's been threatened with punishment. While the words "final warning" aren't in there it says moderation is the next step. Moderation, not ban. If he was told "drop it or you're banned" he probably would have.

In the new rules thread one of the people antagonizing him was clearly told they were almost banned for their behaviour. We think that level of directness is most desirable.

I can assure you his warnings in the past were quite clear. You can believe him over me or the other mods, that's your prerogative. It won't change the fact though that he was clearly warned, and also quite clearly argued with myself and others in response. As for the user you linked to that was also acting in a similar manner, they're not around anymore either. Yes he was warned that moderation was next, at that point in time. That does not mean being banned is not a possible next outcome. It depends on the egregiousness of the behavior and conduct. We skip multiple warnings or moderation for many users and go right to bans when their conduct warrants it.

He had shown a continued lack of listening to warnings including in the very thread that was mentioning such toxic users would be banned straight out. That discussion, and the new rules, made it clear that for such users they would be banned much more quickly instead of multiple chances being given. Mind you he had already been given multiple chances. Yet he continued to post in a detrimental manner and ignored a moderator's warning (errinundra) in that very discussion. So yes, his previous final warning was for moderation. That was before the rule change. Once again before you or he claim it's not fair all the users in that discussion that crossed the line were sent packing and not simply put on moderation. If you keep causing problems at your work don't be surprised when they fire you instead of simply suspending you. It does not change the fact his behavior was violating the rules past and present. It does not change the fact he had ample warnings before and had mostly ignored them all and often argued with staff over said warnings.He put a giant spotlight on himself in that discussion as did several others. Their bans are a result of that.

Quote:
Including me he's got 3 and 1 sister. I made this account years ago but didn't really use it since I prefer to lurk.

I'll take you at face value and assume you're being truthful.

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that, if he was really that bad, you waited over 6 years to do anything more serious than just warn him. And obviously I'm going to believe him over you.


I can give you the names of no fewer then a dozen users who in just my tenure as a moderator here have been banned who had anywhere from 4+ to 8+ years here at the forums. People change. People get away with things. Things fall through the cracks. People don't get reported to us for a while. The old rules also had a downside to them that allowed for some users to skate that line between acceptable and not acceptable. The idea of you can say what you want as long as you're civil. Well unfortunately over time some users went and pushed the envelope of what they could or could get away with. All the while making the place not very welcoming for groups of people or fans of certain shows/genres. Hence the new rules on creating a toxic atmosphere. ANN is a private company and the admin decided they would rather be tighter on the rules on what is allowed in order to create a more welcoming atmosphere. A decision given a lot of thought by the CEO. The new rules don't allow for that sort of line skating anymore.

So there have been several users removed just since the new rules went into affect who had been on the forums for multiple years. There are a few more right on the cusp of getting a boot as well. As I already said, time spent here, your amount of posts, or whether you're a subscriber or not does not matter when it comes to violating the rules. We do not play favorites nor allow such factors like those to influence any sort of decision. You either follow the rules or you don't. He can claim there was no inherent bigotry in his comments but the amount of times he has soapboxed on certain topics would suggest otherwise. More to the point many users have reported him for his posts and conduct, and he had been warned to stop. He didn't.


Quote:
Wait, why are you listing this as a bad thing? You were saying he had to talk to the admin about it, which he did. He just reached them through the [email protected] e-mail instead of the [email protected] e-mail.

Again let me clarify. He was given a response by the CEO and admin Tempest. I am sorry if it took a while but he needs to understand this is a business and the admin are busy and this was the middle of con season. One of the busiest times of the year for the site in terms of news. He then went and emailed a second admin (Dan42) after getting a response from Tempest to try and get a different response. Now he has you posting here, and in other threads, on his behalf and has contacted other users. At this point he is simply digging his hole deeper and deeper. The only thing working in his favor right now is he has not attempted to make several new accounts and then keep posting on the forums with the same shitty behavior as if he was not banned. Unlike some others who have attempted that behavior. I want to make clear for him, and any others who might be lurking and reading this, going that route will result in a perma ban for any and all accounts with no possibility of it being lifted. The fact he has not done that and showed a modicum of restraint with this is the reason I am here posting at all personally. He would be better served though to simply deal with the ban until at least the new year comes in before bringing forward the notion to the mods and admin of letting the ban be lifted. Actually show he is serious about improving his conduct and deal with the "punishment" for now based on his actions. That is my personal opinion as a mod on the matter. If any of the other mods, or admin, have an opinion I am sure they will express it themselves.
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Rob24



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:46 am Reply with quote
Quote:
All the while making the place not very welcoming for groups of people or fans of certain shows/genres.


So this means you're going to crack down on people who insult otaku for liking fanservice shows, right? Comments like that being allowed is something my brother would always complain about.

Quote:
He then went and emailed a second admin (Dan42) after getting a response from Tempest to try and get a different response.


He e-mailed Dan42 in order to thank him for not misunderstanding his post and for warning that other user. Nothing more. As I said, he's had bad experience with mods so I'm not surprised he'd argue with you if he felt you were wrong. So when a mod actually took his side for once he was quite happy.

As for contacting others, he's spent many years on this site and has gotten to know lots of people so rather than just vanishing with no explanation he wanted to give a proper goodbye. And that's all he did. He did not complain about the ban or bad mouth the mods or anything like that. The others can show you their PMs if you don't believe me. I'm doing this for him because he remembered I have an account and he knew making another alt account wouldn't be a good idea.

At any rate, I've said all that he wanted me to say. I gave you the feedback and if you've decided to dismiss it that's your choice. He was told his ban would not be lifted and honestly I think he should cut his losses since you clearly don't want him here.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4034
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:18 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
messaged other users to get them to stick up for him.


I was never asked to do this. I came here of my own accord.

Your post definitely gives a very different perspective on Vaisaga. During the years I've seen him post here, I can't really agree with that perspective, but I'm starting to understand why he got banned. Permanent ban is definitely too harsh in my opinion particularly since I can think of a couple users that are still posting and are more problematic than he was.

And I sent a private message to you, Psycho. It's completely unrelated to this thing. I mostly want to know whether you can see it or not because either I'm having a huge brainfart or private messaging doesn't work for me.
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Psycho 101
Moderator


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 14798
Location: Inn of the Last Home
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:22 am Reply with quote
Quote:
So this means you're going to crack down on people who insult otaku for liking fanservice shows, right? Comments like that being allowed is something my brother would always complain about.

Yes. As Tempest pointed out in the new rules discussion we are going to remove users who create a toxic atmosphere for ANY group of people. If there's a user soapboxing on fans who like ecchi shows (I am one of them and I am not ashamed to admit it one bit) then they will be dealt with the same way a user who is intolerant of feminist views or fans. Nobody has to agree with anyone else here but the days of civilly being a dick to groups of people are gone. See my response below to Cam0 however for a very important fact. We have to be aware of it.

Quote:
As for contacting others, he's spent many years on this site and has gotten to know lots of people so rather than just vanishing with no explanation he wanted to give a proper goodbye. And that's all he did. He did not complain about the ban or bad mouth the mods or anything like that. The others can show you their PMs if you don't believe me. I'm doing this for him because he remembered I have an account and he knew making another alt account wouldn't be a good idea.

At any rate, I've said all that he wanted me to say. I gave you the feedback and if you've decided to dismiss it that's your choice. He was told his ban would not be lifted and honestly I think he should cut his losses since you clearly don't want him here.

I understand he has spent years here but you have to realize his conduct since being banned has pretty much simply lent credence to the notion he is trying to get around it and get people to stand up for him who are unaware of all of the facts. Just like while he claims that there is and was no bigoted agenda on his part previously his posts and attitude give off an entirely different message. Actual posts and attitudes are what we deal with as mods, not supposed intent or lack there of. We're not mind readers so we deal with what is actually put in front of us.

As for clearly not wanting him here, I do not want any user here who insults others, makes them feel unwelcome by judging a group of people, or otherwise is somehow belligerent and a disturbance. Regardless of who it if. I personally don't care one way or another in regards to him individually. I am not friends with him, I do not know him. Likewise I'm not "enemies" nor despise him in some fashion. I have no personal stake in wanting him gone or not. How other mods or staff feel is their own deal. What I personally care about is simply people following the rules and not being a dick to other users or in general. That's the simplest way I can say it. Those who cannot and cause problems I deal with accordingly. If he serves time on his ban and then in a few months politely emails Tempest and requests we reconsider it at that time I would probably be amenable to that personally. Provided from that point he can show he has improved his posting habits and attitude. Again, I only speak for myself and I think I've said everything I can on the subject.


Cam0 wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
messaged other users to get them to stick up for him.


I was never asked to do this. I came here of my own accord.

Your post definitely gives a very different perspective on Vaisaga. During the years I've seen him post here, I can't really agree with that perspective, but I'm starting to understand why he got banned. Permanent ban is definitely too harsh in my opinion particularly since I can think of a couple users that are still posting and are more problematic than he was.

And I sent a private message to you, Psycho. It's completely unrelated to this thing. I mostly want to know whether you can see it or not because either I'm having a huge brainfart or private messaging doesn't work for me.

For starters nope, no PM. If you're having issues try posting in the Technical Bugs section and I can mention it to Dan to look at your post. I just sent you a test PM to see if you got it. Let me know if it showed up.

On the issue of other problem users still posting and still being here, part of that simply comes down to who gets reported and who doesn't. Who we see doing it and who we don't. That is why we consistently tell people to not engage trolls or problem users, but to report them. We cannot check every new thread and every new post here on a daily basis. All of the mods work full time jobs, as do the admin obviously, and we do this as volunteers. We make time to moderate. So yes, I am quite sure plenty of posts go unnoticed and we're not fully aware of the continued bad behavior of some users. Even if we don't take action at that specific time a report if filed we do take notice of how often a user is reported. We also keep an eye on WHO is doing the reporting to sift out cases of simple personal grudges as opposed to legitimate reports. We've warned a few users here for abusing the report system and reporting users they simply don't like or users who simply have a different opinion than them so they report them as trolls. The fact remains though if you want us to see something in regards to a user acting out then you really need to report it. Or PM a mod directly. We can't fix or deal with what we don't see.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4034
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:

For starters nope, no PM. If you're having issues try posting in the Technical Bugs section and I can mention it to Dan to look at your post. I just sent you a test PM to see if you got it. Let me know if it showed up.


I received your PM just fine. But it seems like you haven't received the PM I sent earlier. I sent another as a final test to see if it works, but nope I can't see the PM I sent in my outbox or sentbox. Dunno what's going on, but I made a thread about in Technical section. Thanks for being my test subject. I won't derail this thread with this issue any longer.
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octopodpie
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 1843
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:32 am Reply with quote
We aren't having a public trial here. Locking this up.
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