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EP. REVIEW: Steins;Gate 0


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getumbuck



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:10 am Reply with quote
So I'll just come out and say it. Why did Okabe need to time travel at the very end to save Mayuri and Suzuha? The entire timeline was about to be erased once he sent back that video D-Mail so the Mayuri and Suzuha of the new Steins Gate time line should be safe.
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Jonattan Van Der Horst



Joined: 16 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:26 am Reply with quote
I completely agree with the dude doing the review. Steins;Gate 0 is average, nowhere near the OG Steins;Gate that I freaking loved.

My experience with Steins;Gate 0 was underwhelming.
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James_Beckett



Joined: 23 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:16 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
So I'll just come out and say it. Why did Okabe need to time travel at the very end to save Mayuri and Suzuha? The entire timeline was about to be erased once he sent back that video D-Mail so the Mayuri and Suzuha of the new Steins Gate time line should be safe.


This is the thing the ending completely fails to explain. As I understand it, there's technically at least a decade, if not more, in between the moment that Okabe goes out to save Mayuri and when the Time Machine is actually fully completed so Suzuha can go an send the message and help Past Okabe get to Steins Gate. So Okabe was saving Mayuri and Suzuha in the interim, since the convergence of that world-line meant he had to "die" on that day anyway, and stepping outside of time to pull of a rescue mission essentially fulfilled that requirement.

Why on earth this had to be so convoluted and poorly explained is anyone's guess.
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:37 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
So I'll just come out and say it. Why did Okabe need to time travel at the very end to save Mayuri and Suzuha? The entire timeline was about to be erased once he sent back that video D-Mail so the Mayuri and Suzuha of the new Steins Gate time line should be safe.

That's not how time travel works in Steins;Gate. World lines don't get erased.
This series is not about reaching Steins Gate, because it's already too late for the Okabe Rintaro we're following to get there. The point of this series is that they make it possible for a different Okabe Rintaro (the one from the first series) to reach Steins Gate.

The reason Okabe goes back to save them, is because he and Kagari made a promise to see Mayuri again. Also the first season foreshadowed an Okabe Rintaro existing in 180000 BC (see episode 12 of the first series), so it's cool we got an explanation for that, lol.

Quote:
When Future Okabe finishes the video, Suzuha is still a child, meaning that the actual mission to send Suzuha back into the past to deliver the video message is years off

What the heck is this reviewer talking about?
They send the video back in time through a D-mail. It has nothing to do with Suzuha.

James_Beckett wrote:
As I understand it, there's technically at least a decade, if not more, in between the moment that Okabe goes out to save Mayuri and when the Time Machine is actually fully completed so Suzuha can go an send the message and help Past Okabe get to Steins Gate. So Okabe was saving Mayuri and Suzuha in the interim, since the convergence of that world-line meant he had to "die" on that day anyway, and stepping outside of time to pull of a rescue mission essentially fulfilled that requirement.

Why on earth this had to be so convoluted and poorly explained is anyone's guess.

As I said above, Suzuha doesn't have anything to do with the video Okabe got from his future self.
But you're right about Okabe using the rescue mission to escape the convergence point of his death.

---

Anyway, I've pretty much disagreed with all of ANN's negative reviews about this series. But even though I disagree, I'm also glad it turned out like this in a sense. I feel too many people held the original Steins;Gate up on a pedestal while rejecting the other Science Adventure Series entries that are just as, if not more, interesting than Steins;Gate, so it always kind of bothered me that S;G became the "face" of the franchise, the one everyone pointed to and recommended without even mentioning the others. Since Steins;Gate 0 apparently has traits that garner unfavorable views from reviewers like this, that puts it in similar uniformity to the other Science Adventure titles, which have mostly received unfavorable reviews here if I recall correctly.

Well, those were just my ramblings, and that still doesn't change the idea that both Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 are good.
Watching both shows was very fulfilling, and I'm glad to see 0 wrap up so strongly.

The next title is gonna be Robotics;Notes Dash on PS4 and Switch, a sequel to the original. I wonder if it might get an anime someday? Daru is set to appear in it, so that'll be cool.
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rizuchan
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Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
We got Kagari, a brainwashed, time travelling, future-daughter to Mayuri, who is also obviously a clone of Makise Kurisu,


O.M.G. I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out exactly what exactly Kagari was and how she ended up looking like Kurisu, but now you say that, and it's totally obvious that Leskin made a clone of Kurisu.

...But then the question is, why? Kagari never seemed to be particularly intelligent or anything, it really seemed like any little kid would have worked if he just wanted someone to brainwash.

I guess I really will just have to go play the visual novel. Good timing because I'm just finishing up with Muv Luv Alternative, and I don't think even a mediocre sequel to Steins;gate could top my disappointment of Alternative.


Last edited by rizuchan on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yanv



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:04 pm Reply with quote
rizuchan wrote:
O.M.G. I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out exactly what exactly Kagari was and how she ended up looking like Kurisu, but now you say that, and it's totally obvious that Leskin made a clone of Kurisu.


Honestly, I have a feeling that their resemblance is a huge cosmic joke on Okabe. Just a wild happenstance.
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getumbuck



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:42 pm Reply with quote
BalmungHHQ wrote:

That's not how time travel works in Steins;Gate. World lines don't get erased.
This series is not about reaching Steins Gate, because it's already too late for the Okabe Rintaro we're following to get there. The point of this series is that they make it possible for a different Okabe Rintaro (the one from the first series) to reach Steins Gate.

The reason Okabe goes back to save them, is because he and Kagari made a promise to see Mayuri again. Also the first season foreshadowed an Okabe Rintaro existing in 180000 BC (see episode 12 of the first series), so it's cool we got an explanation for that, lol.
.


Actually, that is how time travel works in Steins Gate. There is only ever one dominate reality and Okabe is the only character who can remember things from realities that no longer exist. Only one worldline is ever active, the others serve as potential inactive worldlines. Case in point, take the true ending or the OAV where Kirsu is able to remember echos of herself from several of the timelines that no longer exist. So the moment the Steins Gate Worldline is reached, the WW:III world line is erased and only serves as a potential. That scene from the first anime was also in the game and was only a dream sequence. That raises only more questions when you use that as a defense, because the Okabe from that dream sequence had no memory of who he was or how he got there. This is nothing like the Okabe from this season final. So yea, don't try to defend plotholes, with other plotholes, you'll only make my head hurt if you do that, lol
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:31 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
Actually, that is how time travel works in Steins Gate. There is only ever one dominate reality and Okabe is the only character who can remember things from realities that no longer exist. Only one worldline is ever active, the others serve as potential inactive worldlines.

Hmm... I can't see how this could possibly be the case.
Okabe can see several different world line's due to his Reading Steiner, and we as viewers follow him through those world lines he moves between. But that doesn't mean any of the other world lines cease to exist. The time travel theory this series is based around uses the concept of infinite world line possibilities, all existing in their own world simultaneously.
Both Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 made use of this, and it's the foundation upon which Steins;Gate 0 is able to exist at all. By your theory, there cannot be two Okabe's active at the same time. But the fact that the True Ending of the first series happened at all is due to the influence of Mayuri's call and Okabe's video message, which only exist thanks to Steins;Gate 0 and what this Okabe went through.
For example, if the Okabe Rintaro we're following now in Steins;Gate 0 got to enter the Steins Gate world line (as in, Reading Steiner kicks in and he ends up in that world with his POV), then what would happen to the Okabe Rintaro that got to Steins Gate in the first series, and never went through any of this stuff that happened in 0? You can't have both of them in the Steins;Gate world line at the same time as one person, when they're both two different Okabe Rintaro's that each had different experiences.

getumbuck wrote:
Case in point, take the true ending or the OAV where Kirsu is able to remember echos of herself from several of the timelines that no longer exist. So the moment the Steins Gate Worldline is reached, the WW:III world line is erased and only serves as a potential.

Even beyond those scenes there are multiple cases where characters recall other world lines through dreams or visions. It doesn't mean those world lines they envision aren't active. Rather, if they weren't active, how would they have a vision of them in the first place?

getumbuck wrote:
That scene from the first anime was also in the game and was only a dream sequence. That raises only more questions when you use that as a defense, because the Okabe from that dream sequence had no memory of who he was or how he got there. This is nothing like the Okabe from this season final. So yea, don't try to defend plotholes, with other plotholes, you'll only make my head hurt if you do that, lol

I meant that it answers the question of why an Okabe Rintaro would ever end up in 180000 BC in the first place.
Yes in the original Steins;Gate it was just a dream, but it was a dream influenced by a vague vision of one of his many other selves.
The Okabe Rintaro we saw go to 180000 BC in S;G0 is quite likely not the only Okabe Rintaro to ever end up going to 180000 BC.
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getumbuck



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:12 pm Reply with quote
BalmungHHQ wrote:

Hmm... I can't see how this could possibly be the case.
Okabe can see several different world line's due to his Reading Steiner, and we as viewers follow him through those world lines he moves between. But that doesn't mean any of the other world lines cease to exist. The time travel theory this series is based around uses the concept of infinite world line possibilities, all existing in their own world simultaneously.
Both Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 made use of this, and it's the foundation upon which Steins;Gate 0 is able to exist at all. By your theory, there cannot be two Okabe's active at the same time. But the fact that the True Ending of the first series happened at all is due to the influence of Mayuri's call and Okabe's video message, which only exist thanks to Steins;Gate 0 and what this Okabe went through.
For example, if the Okabe Rintaro we're following now in Steins;Gate 0 got to enter the Steins Gate world line (as in, Reading Steiner kicks in and he ends up in that world with his POV), then what would happen to the Okabe Rintaro that got to Steins Gate in the first series, and never went through any of this stuff that happened in 0? You can't have both of them in the Steins;Gate world line at the same time as one person, when they're both two different Okabe Rintaro's that each had different experiences.

Even beyond those scenes there are multiple cases where characters recall other world lines through dreams or visions. It doesn't mean those world lines they envision aren't active. Rather, if they weren't active, how would they have a vision of them in the first place?


I meant that it answers the question of why an Okabe Rintaro would ever end up in 180000 BC in the first place.
Yes in the original Steins;Gate it was just a dream, but it was a dream influenced by a vague vision of one of his many other selves.
The Okabe Rintaro we saw go to 180000 BC in S;G0 is quite likely not the only Okabe Rintaro to ever end up going to 180000 BC.


I explained how the rules in this show work buddy, if you don't want to believe me that's fine, but the facts are the facts, there is only one active world line, all the others are just potentials. Pretty sure the creator explained this a while ago, but I'm honestly too lazy to look it up. It might also be explained this way in the visual novel as well, it's been a while since I last read it. It doesn't 100% follow actual string/multi world theory. All Reading Steiner does is allow Okabe to remember memories from worldlines that no longer exist. For everyone else these happen in the form of memory echos, dreams, and deja vu. Reading Steiner isn't only limited to Okabe.

Also only an active timeline can alter time, while all possible/inactive worldline can't. Once the past is altered, the currently active timeline becomes a possible, while a previous possible/inactive worldline becomes the dominate one.

btw: in the original visual novel for Steins Gate 0, the true ending just has Okabe enter the time machine and vanish. There's no appearing in 1800000 BC. In fact we never learn what happens to Suzuha and Mayuri. They're just lost in time and Okage travels back in time so he can find them. The entire final sequence to this episode is just a creation by the anime team and not the original creator. I'm not entirely sure if I like it.


Last edited by getumbuck on Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:15 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
I explained how the rules in this show work buddy, if you don't want to believe me that's fine, but the facts are the facts, there is only ever one active world line, all the others are just potentials. Pretty sure the creator explained this a while ago, but I'm honestly too lazy to look it up. If might also be explained this way is the visual novel as well, it's been a while since I last read it. It doesn't 100% follow actual string/multi world theory. All Reading Steiner does is allow Okabe to remember memories from worldlines that no longer exist. For everyone else these happen in the form of memory echos, dreams, and deja vu. Reading Steiner isn't only limited to Okabe.

Also only an active timeline can alter time, while a possible/inactive worldline can't. Once the past is altered, the currently active timeline becomes a possible, while a previous possible/inactive worldline becomes the dominate one.

btw: in the original visual novel for Steins Gate 0, the true ending just has Okabe enter the time machine and vanish. There's no appearing in 1800000 BC. In fact we never learn what happens to Suzuha and Mayuri. They're just lost in time and Okage travels in time so he can find him. The entire final sequence to this episode is just a creation of the anime team and not the original creator made. I'm not entirely sure if I like it.

Well, it's not that I didn't believe you, it just didn't match with the way I'd interpreted the series so far. But I do see what you're saying.
Ah well, it's too much to think about any more deeply, honestly. Anime smile + sweatdrop

As for the final scene, I'd read somewhere that it comes from a Drama CD rather than the VN itself, so it is by the original writers. But I don't know the details myself.
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Calsolum



Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:18 pm Reply with quote
BalmungHHQ wrote:
Also the first season foreshadowed an Okabe Rintaro existing in 180000 BC (see episode 12 of the first series), so it's cool we got an explanation for that, lol.
The next title is gonna be Robotics;Notes Dash on PS4 and Switch, a sequel to the original. I wonder if it might get an anime someday? Daru is set to appear in it, so that'll be cool.


YES someone remembers that.
after a while I thought it was seriously out of place and that maybe the all the sandstorms was supposed to to represent sand falling in an hourglass, an obvious reference to time.

Quote:

The next title is gonna be Robotics;Notes Dash on PS4 and Switch, a sequel to the original. I wonder if it might get an anime someday? Daru is set to appear in it, so that'll be cool.


Oh god no. I absolutely hated Robotics;Notes, it was so boring and uninteresting and the only thing that could have salvaged it was characters from other semicolon works but they were reduced to just cameos. Hell even spoiler[Mr Braun would have been fun to see again cracking heads in his 'serious' mode but no we get his yandere daughter instead.]
The last part is a joke.
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#887731



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:24 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
So I'll just come out and say it. Why did Okabe need to time travel at the very end to save Mayuri and Suzuha? The entire timeline was about to be erased once he sent back that video D-Mail so the Mayuri and Suzuha of the new Steins Gate time line should be safe.


yea, I was confused at the first. but this time the situation is different they have to wait for
Suzuha (the little one) grows up and bring the time machine back to Okabe in the previous
season. otherwise even the past Okabe got the video mail but still can't change anything
without the time machine. on the other hand, Suzuha (the little one) with time machine
and the video mail they sent are the last two key factors essential to lead to SG world line.
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Niyari



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
This is simply a story that didn't need to be told


Pretty much how I felt (and still feel) when I finished the game. When I initially delved into the game, I assumed it was going to be a spin-off focusing on different characters. Something like Maho as the main heroine and Amadeus Kurisu as the main "antagonist". It wasn't until I was more than halfway into the game that I realized where the story was heading Crying or Very sad
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tee2330



Joined: 11 Oct 2013
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:17 am Reply with quote
I seriously don't get the hate, at no time watching this did I ever think "this is shit, or that was executed poorly." I think everyone's being to harsh on the series however I just enjoy what I enjoy, if I am entertain and get goosebumps form cool moments or plot twists i don't see coming I'll just be happy instead of picking apart every tiny detail of an anime making them less enjoyable.

I hate ANN's reviews of this but it takes alot to really make me hate a show or think it's trash , don't get me wrong I don't like everything there are lots of things that turn me off from an anime, but I don't see any of these problems that you guys keep talking about and probably never will even if you explain them in detail.
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Goober2049



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm Reply with quote
tee2330 wrote:
I seriously don't get the hate, at no time watching this did I ever think "this is shit, or that was executed poorly." I think everyone's being to harsh on the series however I just enjoy what I enjoy, if I am entertain and get goosebumps form cool moments or plot twists i don't see coming I'll just be happy instead of picking apart every tiny detail of an anime making them less enjoyable.

I hate ANN's reviews of this but it takes alot to really make me hate a show or think it's trash , don't get me wrong I don't like everything there are lots of things that turn me off from an anime, but I don't see any of these problems that you guys keep talking about and probably never will even if you explain them in detail.

It's frustrating to watch as someone who played the VN first because it could have been so much better.
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