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#884745
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:11 am Reply with quote
This isn't so much an issue with ANN in particular as with the Western anime fandom and industry in general, but since ANN does have quite a large voice and impact, ANN's coverage could really help this effort.

Basically, there are a lot of really popular franchises in the anime-related niches in Japan that barely get any attention from Western fans, due to the fact that they don't get translated, and they don't get translated because they aren't anime or manga. When an anime adaptation is made, it's generally for people who are already fans of the series, and Western fans tend to dismiss it for that reason, and ignore the entire franchise.

I feel that if ANN gave these series more coverage (instead of just dismissive, "Well, I don't know these characters, so I don't care" preview guide entries), then that could help Western fans notice these series and get the industry to get them translated, which those of us who are already fans would really appreciate.

The most notable of these at present is probably Touken Ranbu, though Touhou Project definitely had the same situation, and plenty of otaku media contains references to it even now, though it's not as popular now. I'm not a huge Fate fan, but it seems like that series suffered from this, too, up until FGO got an international release. (Thankfully, A3 is getting an international release soon).

In the past year, Hypnosis Mic has grown extremely popular, with singles ranking in the Oricon charts for weeks and weeks. ANN did cover this series at first, but then stopped. Not enough interest?
Uta no Prince-sama has, obviously, had its four anime seasons covered by ANN as anime, but I didn't see any coverage of Quartet Night's recent record-breaking single. I think that ANN should cover (and maybe even review?) these and other "2D" music releases when they aren't connected to an anime, as well as when they are. They're important enough in Japan to have multiple print magazines and countless online sources of coverage.

It depends on what ANN's goal is - to provide English-language information about the landscape of the anime industry and fandom; or to provide certain visible groups of fans with information about the series they already like, with no intention of providing information about series they might not have heard of, except for things that appeal to the editors' personal tastes.

Saying that the series that are popular in Japan deserve recognition by English websites isn't merely some sort of misguided claim that Japanese fans are superior to international fans, or anything like that. This media does, for the most part, originate in Japan, and as ANN's writers often tell fans who quibble over petitions for sequels and the like, sales within Japan are still the driving force behind what gets made in Japan.
And popularity isn't even the issue - the volume of it being produced, the fact that it is part of the anime sphere, and the quality of music from series like SQ, Band Yarouze (sadly now ended), and HypMic, could be enough for ANN to consider them worth, even just a bi-weekly roundup interest article?

Music can be bought internationally from sites like CD Japan, and some series' music - Love Live and Idolish 7, at least - have been made available on US iTunes. AniUta's international version will also have all of this.

~~Would it be that hard to go through AniUta and review a few songs from a few 2D/2.5D music series that are less well-known than those?

I was also bothered by a recent Answerman column - maybe a month or two ago - where the question asked about the possibility of getting translated stage plays and drama CDs, and the response was, "You don't really want those. You don't understand, but those are just silly, empty fanservice, they're not worth translating." The response detailed the logistical issues as well, but the conclusion was that these things are always just bad and not worth it.

The truth is, there are several worthwhile series that exist just as stage plays and drama CDs, with the anime as, essentially, the fluffy side stories you accuse the stage plays of being. Touken Ranbu has at least twice as much heavy plot material in its two stage play series as in its two anime series. The same goes for the TsukiPro franchise, which has built up multiple complex fantasy universes in its 10* stage plays, countless drama CDs, and twitter stories, which barely appear in the two anime series.

.... and even when they are "just" fluffy side stories, why is that wrong? Why scoff at fans who just want to see and hear more of their favorite characters being cute and having fun? Gratuitous cuteness is part of what makes anime worthwhile, it's not right to scoff at it.
The effort to license, translate, and market these things could be made if fans demand, but fans won't demand if they don't know about them. And weren't the same things said about so many other areas of the anime sphere that did eventually get licensed and translated, and routines established for similar works? (e.g. Hetalia and subsequent short anime, simulcasting at all, etc.)

(*The 6th Tsukiuta stage play (8th overall) is being held next month, with the 2nd SQ Stage in November, and the 7th Tsukiuta play in December, plus a joint concert of Tsukiuta and SQ). (The "Black Butler: Tango on the Campania" stage musical also covered that arc of the manga better than the anime movie did, but that's a matter of opinion). (IIRC, there was an international streaming of a Sailor Moon stage play recently. The Touken Ranbu musical cast also performed in Paris and India, and the Tsukiuta stage cast did a performance in Shanghai and one in Taiwan).
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octopodpie
ANN Managing Editor


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:54 pm Reply with quote
Male idol stuff, particularly outside of their anime or manga adaptations, is in Interest's category. As the managing editor, I have tested covering articles about these franchises, like Hypnotic Mic. But you're right. They don't seem to gain any traction. If our readers don't seem to be interested in the articles; commenting in the forums, sharing it or commenting on Facebook, then eventually I drop it from our leads. There's only two of us writing for this section consistently (myself and Jennifer) and one covering events (Kim), so I have to spend our time wisely.

Right now, the only consistent male idol stuff we're still covering are animated music videos or on the off-chance a new group shows up with a neat gimmick. I could go back to covering these topics again if there was more support to do so; one of the best ways to do that would be looking into our subscriber tiers. I think there's something about designating some article topics or something like that, but that would cost money on readers' behalf.
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#884745
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:27 am Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
...
They don't seem to gain any traction. If our readers don't seem to be interested in the articles; commenting in the forums, sharing it or commenting on Facebook, then eventually I drop it from our leads. There's only two of us writing for this section consistently (myself and Jennifer) and one covering events (Kim), so I have to spend our time wisely.
...
I could go back to covering these topics again if there was more support to do so; one of the best ways to do that would be looking into our subscriber tiers. I think there's something about designating some article topics or something like that, but that would cost money on readers' behalf.


Thanks for replying. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I've been away from my computer for a while. And thanks for finally posting the article about TsukiSta~

That's a fair response, especially since you don't have a lot of people. Is there anything that readers can do to pitch in? Is there a way that tip emails should be written to make it easier for you? I try to just put a link and get out of the way, but if it would help to provide more info, I will.


(I will definitely look into a subscription. Thanks for letting me know about that.)

It's also... some of the articles feel sort of like the person writing them doesn't really know the series. Like, just off the top of my head, there was an article posted about TsukiPro putting SolidS' releases on hiatus while waiting for Umehara to recover, but it seemed sort of like it wasn't quite sure what was being put on hold, exactly. A lot of people don't know that these series are constantly releasing music, not directly tied to an anime or game. It felt like if a person who didn't already know the franchise were to read it, they might just think it was an empty gesture or something like that, or that it was about the anime sequel in some indirect way. (Since Umehara has recovered from his illness, Dai and Rikka's Re:Start single has been scheduled for 10/26. The series has a pretty packed release calendar, actually.)

These series - TsukiPro, HypMic, and Rejet, at least - release preview videos for the singles, and while they're not exactly animated, they are interesting. A lot of people are also interested in the voice actors in these series but don't know the series yet. If you were to do an interest article with a headline like, "Toshiyuki Toyonaga, Daiki Yamashita, more, preview upcoming single releases" and put multiple preview videos that people send you in news tip emails, into one or two articles a month, with the most popular seiyuu as the headline, that might get more people interested without taking too much of your time or space.

I just want it to spread that there's more going on in these series than people realize (not only TsukiPro, that's just the one I'm most familiar with). That they're not just "standard bishounen harem + generic song because idols need to sing something", that they actually put a lot of creativity into their music - and that the voice actors everyone loves from shows like YOI, HeroAca, Ghoul, etc. are actually really great singers who can do so much more than just standard character songs.

If you feel like a certain seiyuu is particularly popular, you could also do an interest piece about that seiyuu's music in general, both solo (under their own name) and 2D/2.5D songs. (Most of the series official youtube channels do post non-region-locked preview videos of the music, like the ones I linked to, and there's AniUta)

Those are just some ideas. I just want to share these things, because I feel like international fans would be more interested if they knew more about it...

(If it's not too forward to suggest it, I'd be willing to contribute in any way... I looked at the "freelance contributor" criteria and I don't have a portfolio or resume, so I didn't want to suggest writing something for you myself, but if you need someone to provide background, or describe an event or exhibition (I live in Tokyo), I'd definitely be willing and able. If this is a bad idea, then just ignore me, sorry for mentioning it.)
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octopodpie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:45 pm Reply with quote
First, thank you for your detailed feedback! It's very helpful.

Quote:
Is there anything that readers can do to pitch in? Is there a way that tip emails should be written to make it easier for you?


Absolutely! So tips should be e-mailed to [email protected] Any pertinent details included will save me a ton of time.

Quote:
It's also... some of the articles feel sort of like the person writing them doesn't really know the series.


This might very well be true. A lot of our writers from both News and Interest have to do research when writing up leads since there's only so many of us and so much we can know just from our personal interest in anime, manga and games. Sometimes there's a go-to person on staff for a particular franchise we can reach out to with questions but some times there isn't. This also becomes harder when a work isn't available easily in English, like a lot male idol games or otome works.

Quote:
These series - TsukiPro, HypMic, and Rejet, at least - release preview videos for the singles, and while they're not exactly animated, they are interesting. A lot of people are also interested in the voice actors in these series but don't know the series yet. If you were to do an interest article with a headline like, "Toshiyuki Toyonaga, Daiki Yamashita, more, preview upcoming single releases" and put multiple preview videos that people send you in news tip emails, into one or two articles a month, with the most popular seiyuu as the headline, that might get more people interested without taking too much of your time or space.


I think this is a very good idea for a round-up style approach. If you're comfortable sending me a few e-mails to get started, I could probably make this work after subscribing to correct YouTube channels so that I'd get updates automatically with new videos.

Quote:
(If it's not too forward to suggest it, I'd be willing to contribute in any way... I looked at the "freelance contributor" criteria and I don't have a portfolio or resume, so I didn't want to suggest writing something for you myself, but if you need someone to provide background, or describe an event or exhibition (I live in Tokyo), I'd definitely be willing and able. If this is a bad idea, then just ignore me, sorry for mentioning it.)


I was actually going to direct you to this myself, haha. It sounds like you're very knowledgeable about this sub-genre and you don't need n giant writing resume to pitch an idea to editorial (and get paid for it). If you come up with a few different angles on how to share your passion, whether it's discussing how a specific group achieved mainstream success, or talking about the creativity expressed in the videos, or their appeal, I think you'd have a great editorial on your hands. I think the large casts in some of these series or the unavailability of the games can seem like a hurdle to new fans, so editorials/explainers could be great.
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#884745
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Thanks again for replying~!

octopodpie wrote:
So tips should be e-mailed to [email protected] Any pertinent details included will save me a ton of time.


Will definitely do. I've been sending them to "newsroom", but I'll send to "interest" from now on. Thanks for letting me know.

Quote:


I think this is a very good idea for a round-up style approach. If you're comfortable sending me a few e-mails to get started, I could probably make this work after subscribing to correct YouTube channels so that I'd get updates automatically with new videos.

Will definitely do! Is there any way in particular that would be best to sort them - by series, by voice actor, by style, by some sort of theme?

Hypnosis Mic
Tsukipro
Rejet

(I think that when they release the preview for the single that Umehara is singing, that might be good to do a piece about, since everyone is so happy that he's recovered. Could also mention other entries in the Re:Start series, and the fact that the other three SolidS members wore Dai's color bracelets and light-up rings (cheering things) during the concert in June.)

I'm also curious, what do you think is worth an interest article, and what do you think is just clutter? For example, TsukiPro posted this 15-second trailer for the second SQ stage play, and art previews for their annual Harajuku pop-up shop (more here), as well as their AGF steampunk AU, and Rejet's Marginal #4 series has been releasing radio shows with the previews for their new singles... I wasn't sure, so I didn't send them, because I don't want to clutter up your inbox, but if any of these kinds of things are worth mentioning...
Quote:


I was actually going to direct you to this myself, haha. It sounds like you're very knowledgeable about this sub-genre and you don't need n giant writing resume to pitch an idea to editorial (and get paid for it). If you come up with a few different angles on how to share your passion, whether it's discussing how a specific group achieved mainstream success, or talking about the creativity expressed in the videos, or their appeal, I think you'd have a great editorial on your hands. I think the large casts in some of these series or the unavailability of the games can seem like a hurdle to new fans, so editorials/explainers could be great.

Ahh really? I might try to do this. I would love to. Would it be a problem to make an explainer about one franchise, though? I don't think I'm that knowledgeable about anything but TsukiPro, but I can do research and try!

Again, thanks for taking the time to write such detailed and informative replies.
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octopodpie
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Well, Zac is head of editorial and choosing pitches so I think the best approach is send an e-mail with a variety of pitches so he could let you know what he's most looking for.

When it comes to video examples: stage plays are usually News but I think preview videos for the stage play (or when the home video release comes out, or the cast in costume would be worthwhile. I think radio shows might be a pass. Ultimately, if the video is mostly just talking Japanese without subtitles, a lot of our readers would probably have difficulty understanding what's going on and it would be a lot of work to transcribe a radio show.

CD preview videos though, would work for a round-up. The article could be like the example you offered "Listen to the new, upcoming tracks by /seiyu/" and readers could listen to each video and maybe find a new song they like.
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#884745
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Ahh sorry I didn't reply to this, but I've been sending in a few things as they're released. I hope some of them are worthwhile (like the SQS cast visuals and a few song previews, including the one I mentioned before with Umehara).

ahhh I also wanted to mention... I posted a comment on the article about the next StarMyu stage event asking where the information about a cast change comes from, and no one responded... I checked the source link that was provided and it didn't say anything about that, and neither did that actors' twitter, so I was wondering where that information came from...
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omiya



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:06 am Reply with quote
I have found out about related areas due to artists that I already followed being involved or being of interest to other Japanese fans who I have met and followed on Twitter.

On the Otome side, Kaori Oda, Nagi Yanagi and Kevin Penkin lead to me noticing Norn9.

Interest articles about real-life places associated with anime are also welcome e.g. Abashiri Prison museum associated with Golden Kamui.
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#884745
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:06 am Reply with quote
// hate to post again but I just wanted to say this this way:

The reason it concerns me so much is because I keep seeing people saying things like, "This doesn't exist" or "This doesn't make any sense" in response to the format of some of these series - that is, the format where the "main" part of the franchise is something other than a manga, video game, or novel; where the anime isn't an adaptation of the prior material, and the stage play isn't just a further-watered-down adaptation of the anime; where the in-character music releases stand on their own, just like 3D/"real" artists' singles do, as opposed to series that only release music if it's a theme-song, character-song, or otherwise subordinate to an anime or game.

These things have existed in the anime sphere in Japan for probably 10+ years. Tsukiuta is having its 6th anniversary at the end of this year, and it doesn't seem like it was the first (I mention that specifically just because it's the only one besides HypMic that I can say for sure that it didn't start with a game). And yet, there are a bunch of Western fans online saying that HypMic invented the format, because it's the first time they've heard of it (or assuming that HypMic and TsukiPro must have had games first).

... to be honest, when I see on ANN mentions of the things I follow, it feels similar to how "mainstream" American media talks about anime in general.

I feel most people - and this goes for all people, not just anime fans, and all areas - when people hear about something that has existed, that they've never heard of, they tend to think, "That can't exist, or if it does, it can't possibly be as good as this person is saying it is, because if it existed, I would have heard of it." They're hearing about it now, from the fan who's recommending it to them, but coming from a fan, they're skeptical. They think that if what this fan is saying were true, they would have heard about it from some site with authority. Within anime, ANN has that authority.

Yes, it's true (I guess) that ANN isn't the only anime news site that's this big, but it's one of the main ones. There are a lot of people who will assume that a thing can't be that consequential in Japan's anime-sphere if ANN isn't reporting on it.

This goes for all areas of "otaku culture", not just the thing I'm a fan of.

I feel like, with the level of influence ANN has, that the site has something of a responsibility to be more exhaustive. To give more of an accurate sense of what's being made in Japan, and to inform readers of things they might not be aware of yet, not just the latest news on the series they already know they like.

It has always felt, to me, like it was ANN's goal to be that kind of exhaustive resource, and for at least 10 years, I've trusted ANN that way, more or less. (I know it was at least 10 years, because I remember bringing ANN articles to my high school anime club as research material, and that was about 10 years ago). But when I came to Japan, I realized there are so many different corners of the anime world that there's essentially no coverage of in English - again, maybe the fans aren't interested yet, but they can't be interested in something if they don't know about it.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm repeating the same stuff.

I just feel like, for example with Touken Ranbu, I feel like most mentions of it on ANN feel like, "Oh, that thing, that exists," and I keep meeting Western people who see themselves as knowledgeable about anime, and who try to keep up with what's going on in the field, who have never heard of it. The two anime series might not have the best fight animation, but there's so much more that art/media have to offer in life than just fight animation.



Anyway, I've sent in a bunch of emails, both to "interest (at) animenewsnetwork (dot) com" and "newsroom (at) animenewsnetwork (dot) com", over the past few weeks since the above conversation, and most of them haven't gotten posted... sorry if I'm coming off as annoying or whiny or something like that. Like you said, I've stuck to
- Stage play cast visuals
- Stage play trailers that aren't a lot of talking
- Song preview videos (listed by seiyuu)

I've also sent some things about stage play summaries - those are in Japanese, so they'd need to be translated. I don't know if it would be helpful for me to translate them, or if it would be backseat-driver-ish/unsolicited for me to translate them... but I will if it's helpful.

Again, I don't want to be backseat-driver-ish/unsolicited about writing a description, so I've stuck to bare bones, but if you want me to write something like, "The 7th Tsukiuta stage play revealed visuals of the cast in costume", etc., the way the articles are, let me know how and I will.

I don't want to create more work for you, because I realize you already have a lot on your plate, I just want there to be more of a resource for international fans to find out more about corners of the anime world that they don't know about. I know I've had series that I've scrolled past mentions of on ANN and other sites for months, thinking they're completely something they're not, then suddenly realized they weren't what I thought and realized I was interested...
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digidragon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Hello, Karen here from the newsroom. Thanks for writing in and sending us news tips. I appreciate your concern for stage play coverage -- seeing as how they are largely inaccessible to most English-speaking readers, there's not as much interest as there would be for, say, a new anime, but I agree that our coverage shouldn't always be about what people already know they're interested in.

This is why we try to put out a sampling of stage play news so that readers have an idea of what's going on with these franchises in Japan. We want to be as comprehensive as possible when it comes to what stage plays are out there, so we definitely appreciate news tips to help us do this.

There is an absolute glut of content out there, though, so unfortunately we don't often have time to go beyond "this exists" and maybe "here are some cast visuals." And even though we'd like to get everything, we can't.

News doesn't accept outside articles or translations, but would you be open to chatting directly about TsukiPro and any other franchises you feel deserve more coverage? It always helps to have context directly from fans of a series. Please feel free to shoot me an email at the newsroom or [email protected] if so.
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omiya



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:42 am Reply with quote
To give another example, there is this article:

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-03-13/rumiko-takahashi-draws-album-jacket-for-lyricist-friend-yuho-iwasato/.99674

I didn't realise how significant a lyricist Yuho Iwasato is until recently (English Wikipedia still classes her as not noteworthy, even though there is a category page for songs with lyrics by her).

Anyway, another example of events happening in Japan related to anime was a series of talks by Yuho Iwasato on the lyrics she has written:

https://twitter.com/yuhoiwasato/status/802648950477975552

松井五郎さんゲストの第2回トークライブ!来てくださった皆さん、有り難うございました!恋、応援歌、アイドル、特撮、アニメ等、同じテーマで書いた作品を比べ、創作の秘密を解き明かした2時間。私も松井作詞塾の生徒に。楽しかった!コミネリサさんライブも感動 ♪満員御礼大感謝です!(^^)/



I attended event mentioned above, pictured with Lisa Komine in centre (hardly knowing any spoken Japanese language) and still enjoyed it.

All aspects of the craft that go into making anime and related media should be up for news articles on ANN, and music is certainly part of it.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:58 am Reply with quote
These are all topics that belong in ANN's coverage; however, my position on this has always been, "When we are able to cover 100% of the anime & manga news that is newsworthy, then we'll start trying to be more exhaustive with other, tangential topics." We already cover a lot of tangential topics, but we don't try to be any where near exhaustive with them, because every article about [Topic X, where X != anime or manga] means one less article about anime or manga.

In short, we have limited resources, and we focus most of those resources on anime and manga.

-t
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#884745
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:12 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
These are all topics that belong in ANN's coverage; however, my position on this has always been, "When we are able to cover 100% of the anime & manga news that is newsworthy, then we'll start trying to be more exhaustive with other, tangential topics." We already cover a lot of tangential topics, but we don't try to be any where near exhaustive with them, because every article about [Topic X, where X != anime or manga] means one less article about anime or manga.

In short, we have limited resources, and we focus most of those resources on anime and manga.

-t


Thank you for replying.

It's your site and you have the right to set your focus... I guess as another way of phrasing my view is that, these other media aren't as tangential as they used to be, and I regret that I didn't learn that until I moved to Japan.

I feel like I missed out on a lot because of the fact that all the English-language information/commentary treats anime and manga like they're the only things that matter. Like they're above all other media, like they're The Real Point of all this, when they're... not necessarily.

Before I moved to Japan, I felt like I was "in the loop" for what matters in anime, from following ANN and some other similar sites, and when I got here, I realized I really wasn't.

And a series' anime adaptation isn't always an indicator of the quality or content of the rest of the series. I understand that ANN can't really have critics review things that aren't available outside of Japan, but it's still frustrating to read reviews that basically say "this adaptation is flimsy, so the whole franchise must not be worth anyone's time".

(On the other hand, I also feel like anime producers should understand more that often the anime is all international fans get of the franchise, and make them in a way that will bring in new fans, and not just become an empty shell for existing fans to add to their pile more or less out of obligation. But that's... obviously a harder change to encourage with just emails. And also, the directors of Touken Ranbu: Hanamaru said that they intended it to be that gateway, but most Western fans ended up rejecting it, anyway...)

But I understand that you have limited resources, and it's your call on how to use them...
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