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INTEREST: Kameha Con Responds to Recent Guest Cancellations


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n1nn1nn1n



Joined: 25 Mar 2019
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:21 pm Reply with quote
Redlinks wrote:
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
Redlinks wrote:
Ya'll can point fingers at him all you want but Vic is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. Just saiyan.


If you get fired from your job for misconduct but haven't been tried in court, you've still performed a misconduct and get punished. You don't go "Hey you can't punish me or say I'm guilty of this thing unless you take it to court!".


Under United States law, an individual is "innocent until proven guilty". If the situation is that important to Monica, then she should have no problem in court proving that what he did actually happened to her.


Again, you can get fired from your job for misconduct and it doesn't go to court. Most crime and misbehavior doesn't go to court - it's called the dark figure of crime. Just because it's not prosecuted or reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also, TWO companies did an investigation into claims and chose to terminate him. That's not done without cause or evidence, despite what YouTube conspiracists might say.
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Seif



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:30 pm Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:

Tiffany Vollmer who originally voiced Bulma all throughout Dragonball, Dragonball Z, and Dragonball Z Kai is still attending KamehaCon. Monica Rial replaced Vollmer for Final Chapters and for Super after Vollmer retired.


Tiffany Vollmer did not voice Bulma in any part of Kai. Rial has been voicing Bulma exclusively for almost 10 years.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4771
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:35 pm Reply with quote
If we are honest, nothing much will happen to the convention. Unless the reactor breaks and there is an actual meltdown at the convention, life will go on as normal. The convention is more than just some voice actors attending or not attending.

The convention will move along just like any other convention, attendees with laugh and giggle at all the voice actor/actress drama, and then enjoy the other stuff that conventions typically have.

Next year the convention will be back, and people will attend, Typically the people on either side yelling the loudest, do not make up the bulk of attendees. So it really doesn't matter much who attends or who doesn't, people will still come to have fun, and gossip about all the drama.
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Ashen Phoenix



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2694
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:37 pm Reply with quote
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
Again, you can get fired from your job for misconduct and it doesn't go to court. Most crime and misbehavior doesn't go to court - it's called the dark figure of crime. Just because it's not prosecuted or reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also, TWO companies did an investigation into claims and chose to terminate him. That's not done without cause or evidence, despite what YouTube conspiracists might say.


Well said. I'm disappointed in KamehaCon for reversing their cancellation decision. At the same time, I'm glad to see a number of other panelists/VAs withdraw from the convention.

At some point "incidents" such as this become, to me, like the Bill Cosby accusations: you can conceivably argue against one or maybe two, but when this many people come out against an individual and companies start pulling out, I can't see any logic in people continuing to deny the allegations as being true.
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Asaaaasd



Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:38 pm Reply with quote
n1nn1nn1n wrote:


Again, you can get fired from your job for misconduct and it doesn't go to court. Most crime and misbehavior doesn't go to court - it's called the dark figure of crime. Just because it's not prosecuted or reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also, TWO companies did an investigation into claims and chose to terminate him. That's not done without cause or evidence, despite what YouTube conspiracists might say.

They will if they believe that the potential to their reputation/profits that would come from employing somebody who, at the time, had most of the community against him, even if they don't have sufficient evidence. Companies are about making money, and if they think firing a potentially innocent man on the payroll will be more profitable than waiting and doing a proper investigation while experiencing backlash from the fanbase for not immediately dropping him, they will do that.
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LegitSnivy



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:38 pm Reply with quote
Redlinks wrote:


Under United States law, an individual is "innocent until proven guilty". If the situation is that important to Monica, then she should have no problem in court proving that what he did actually happened to her.


Except that's not even how that works.
If enough people are testifying against you, and have had enough companies do an internal investigation on you to where they deemed you unfit to be employed under them, then they have some ground to stand on that you're not fit to be in the working environment as everyone else.
Especially considering the greater reality is most victims aren't able to come out immediately as something happens, whether that be defending their attacker to protect themselves, or even going through some traumatic turmoil internally. This isn't something you can easily prove, but doubting the hundreds of victims that testify him (Yes, I'm aware some have been false.), is still a lot to hold onto.
Especially considering this has dated back since mid 2000's.
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Illia Sadri



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:44 pm Reply with quote
TLDR: contract didn't have a morality or other options out clause. Vic's lawyer likely kindly suggested to the con about the ability sue for breech of contract so they invited him back.

Rather than face a court case where they would be able to state the credible accusations as reason to act in the interest of the general public, they took the easy way out. I get it. Dissapointed, but I get it. Vic won because might makes right here.

Obviously the con isn't going to go after the VAs and others cancelling now. That's a fool's errand considering fear of safety would be easy to establish given all the twitter nonsense going out there all the way up to death threats.

It's sad.

Just the fact that the fandom I saw 20 years ago, that welcomed all kinds of weirdos is dissolving. One of the first places where trans folk could put their toe in the water with expressing themselves was a real joy. The conventions where the quiet outcasts could find their tribe and end up with lifelong friends from are digressing into something ugly.

All the Stans have no idea just how much it hurts. My con staff friends are all aghast that most of the fandom we knew to be a mostly accepting lot have put so much effort in denying the behind the scenes stories we all spent YEARS trying to keep behind the curtain as to not let the drama touch the kids. Many of us are quietly discussing security and hoping nothing happens as we approach the summer con season.

I think a lot of us thought that when all the individual stories from all the years came out people would understand it. After seeing how Cosby and Weinstein used their position to cover up their heinous behavior we could finally have the Vic talk.

The fact that so many of you are calling us liars and denying our experiences is a painful form of gaslighting. You shout trite talking points not knowing what happened and insist the people who were there didn't experience anything. Even 20 years ago I have never seen the sheer misogyny expressed as of late. That the simple act of speaking up against a low grade celebrity's actual behavior would invite sheer hatred is alarming.

To all the Stans who feel they got a win, you shouldn't celebrate. I'm mourning the loss of the fandom where a generation came together learning it was okay to be a geek. I don't know if I'd take my niece to one as I promised.

I hope Vic's happy and the attention is worth it.
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Lobokendo



Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 133
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Interesting thought. Maybe the allegations SHOULD be taken to court. Vic is very religious, so if he had to swear on the bible maybe he would tell the truth about things, or else his beliefs would be questionable as well. And if he lied under oath, by his belief system that would honestly be way worse for him.

I believe the victims just an interesting thought.
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n1nn1nn1n



Joined: 25 Mar 2019
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Asaaaasd wrote:
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
Again, you can get fired from your job for misconduct and it doesn't go to court. Most crime and misbehavior doesn't go to court - it's called the dark figure of crime. Just because it's not prosecuted or reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Also, TWO companies did an investigation into claims and chose to terminate him. That's not done without cause or evidence, despite what YouTube conspiracists might say.

They will if they believe that the potential to their reputation/profits that would come from employing somebody who, at the time, had most of the community against him, even if they don't have sufficient evidence. Companies are about making money, and if they think firing a potentially innocent man on the payroll will be more profitable than waiting and doing a proper investigation while experiencing backlash from the fanbase for not immediately dropping him, they will do that.


Where is the evidence they didn't do a proper investigation? Maybe one company might skip straight to firing but both took their time, acknowledged they were looking into it, and then fired him.

In the case of Funimation, firing one of your more prolific VAs and cast members from the Broly movie after it made bank for them, without cause makes no sense. If there was no cause they could have gone, "We looked into claims against Vic but found there wasn't substantial evidence to backup them up" and yes it'd still leave some unhappy but they could still stick with the fact they looked and found nothing. The problem is they apparently did look and several VAs - coworkers - have agreed there was cause to kick him. We're beyond just a mob at that point.

[EDIT: Removed excessive nesting. - Key]
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Lobokendo wrote:
Interesting thought. Maybe the allegations SHOULD be taken to court. Vic is very religious, so if he had to swear on the bible maybe he would tell the truth about things, or else his beliefs would be questionable as well. And if he lied under oath, by his belief system that would honestly be way worse for him.

I believe the victims just an interesting thought.


Vic also swore during his apology that he would take some time to reflect upon his behavior, and yet here he is forcing conventions to re-invite him with lawsuit threats and publicly lying that those cons were under peer pressure less than a month later. Let's stop pretending that he has any concept of dignity.
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Illia Sadri



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:07 pm Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:

It's not so much as "sacrificing the main cast for the guy that voiced Broly" as it is sacrificing those that bring in less cash for the one cash cow that does. And, as indicated by the contract specifics, it's avoiding a possible lawsuit. Until Vic is tried and convicted in a court of law, he's still considered innocent in the eyes of our justice system.


You do realize that you gave the exact argument that a lot of people looked the other way for years as Vic did this? Look at the stories from those in the industry and behind the scene of cons where everyone admitted they knew about the issue, but he was such a presence in a small industry it was seen as necessary to endure it. Because Vic in a show DID move DVDs and DID sell con badges.

But is that really what we want to guide right and wrong? Is anything okay as long as it makes enough money?

__
And for crying out loud, Funimation is a private company in Texas, a right to work state where all their VAs are under contract rather than salary. They have every right to fire him for any reason specified. Same thing with every convention. They are privately owned and do not need a court conviction to decide that they rather not conduct business with a person.

Again, perhaps wonder why all the people who should know him best are almost entirely on the side of the women? Why does getting a hug and autograph from him make you feel more knowledgable than Funimation and every VA and con staff stretching coast to coast. Shouldn't it strike folks as odd that he doesn't have anyone from inside backing him up?
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Steve Minecraft



Joined: 13 Feb 2019
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Vic also swore during his apology that he would take some time to reflect upon his behavior, and yet here he is forcing conventions to re-invite him with lawsuit threats and publicly lying that those cons were under peer pressure less than a month later. Let's stop pretending that he has any concept of dignity.


When did Vic publicly lie about this?
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:17 pm Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:
When did Vic publicly lie about this?


Nick Rekieta made a public post on his Twitter claiming that the con was being terrorized by Chris Sabat and Monica Rial and threatened by them with legal action, complete with what was allegedly screenshots of phone texts. I suppose he didn't think that anyone would reach out to Kamehacon organizers and get a copy of Mignogna's contract.

Given that Nick Rekieta repeatedly and loudly claimed to represent Vic Mignogna's interests, I intend to hold Vic equally responsible for every piece of nonsense Rekieta says on the matter.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1553
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:30 pm Reply with quote
Illia Sadri wrote:
You do realize that you gave the exact argument that a lot of people looked the other way for years as Vic did this? Look at the stories from those in the industry and behind the scene of cons where everyone admitted they knew about the issue, but he was such a presence in a small industry it was seen as necessary to endure it. Because Vic in a show DID move DVDs and DID sell con badges.

But is that really what we want to guide right and wrong? Is anything okay as long as it makes enough money?


From reading your other post, you've been attending and/or staffing conventions for almost as long as I have. You were around for the days when now behemoth cons were still in their infancy and so was I.

That being said, you also are aware of how the convention scene has changed. Conventions used to be a place where you could meet fellow nerds and bond with them over their opinions on dubs, "best girl", the correct pronunciation of a character's name, etc. The larger ones are now heavily industry controlled, with convention events being specifically designed to cater to a company (ie. Fashion shows highlighting one specific designer). At one time, the movie room at a convention was whatever a staff member torrented before the con. Now, those rooms are showing whatever wares Funi, Crunchy or whatever sponsor has opted to show. You were also around for the days when a convention would have 1 or 2 staffers with a special guest rolodex, whereas now inviting guests is usually arranged by whoever industry sponsors want to bring. Dealer Hall arrangements used to be done by whomever paid the appropriate fees and was first to snag the space. Now, for large conventions, space is controlled by those industries whose presence brings in attendees and/or who bring in convention guests of honor.

To answer your question, you only need to look at how the convention scene has changed in the last 15-20 years. Integrity is easily sacrificed for profit.
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ECW28



Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:43 pm Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
several professional and fan testimonies (which, by law, counts as evidence), and the fact his bad behavior was an open secret for decades.


That is actually incorrect. What makes a statement a testimony is the sworn oath in court that you are telling the truth. Statements by themselves which are not under oath have no weight. It's the consequences of lying which gives a statement the right to become admissible as evidence, as committing perjury is a felony and results in prison time.

Lynx Raven Raide wrote:
Ha... Haha... Damn, I don't even follow Dragon Ball and even I know Bulma isn't exactly an "incredibly small role"...


Tiffany Vollmer who originally voiced Bulma all throughout Dragonball, Dragonball Z, and Dragonball Z Kai is still attending KamehaCon. Monica Rial replaced Vollmer for Final Chapters and for Super after Vollmer retired. So while Rial is the current voice of Bulma, she's not the actress who most fans probably grew up with.

I would say the only notable voice who dropped was Jason Douglas, who voices Beeru. What I found interesting is all the voice actors who dropped were Super voice actors. So far, none of the original Dragonball, Dragonball Z, or Dragonball GT actors have dropped.


Most of that was correct. However, Rial voiced Bulma in ALL of Kai and Super. So she’s been the voice of Bulma for almost a decade now. Vollmer was gone after GT.
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