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ANNCast - Bursting the Bubble with Lance Heiskell


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Mach Rider



Joined: 19 Apr 2019
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:54 am Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:
Hey, no banging on Kiddy Grade. When Colleen Clinkenbeard was in my town for a con last year and someone asked what old anime should people rediscover, her first pick was Kiddy Grade.

Speaking of, question for Lance (I'm only halfway through the episode so maybe this comes up). Funimation is the one licensor that was really strong before and after the bubble, and one apparent side effect is that some old shows they licensed have hung around for 15 years or more now Not just the Dragon Balls and Fruits Baskets, but the real deep catalog stuff, like Kiddy Grade, Moonphase, Rumbling Hearts, Peach Girl, Desert Punk, Suzuka, that kind of thing. All still available to stream, or buy on DVD or download. Were those licensed in perpetuity, or do they come up for renewal every few years and the terms remain acceptable to all parties?


That isn't really how it works. They have to relicense it once it expires. I had thought Funi lost the license to Suzuka, but I think I was confusing it with Shiki.
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LightningCount



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:39 am Reply with quote
I'm really looking forward to listening to this interview!

But in case I listen after Lance is no longer taking questions, three things that come to mind prior to listening (and if they're answered in the interview, never mind):

1.) Do you have any sense how the Fafner scifi/mecha franchise did for Funimation? You released the first series and movie on DVD and Blu Ray a while back (circa 2012), but the prequel OVA and modern sequel series haven't been touched. Is it a matter of sales or just licensing issues with King Records? (The production values on this franchise have really gotten impressive in recent years, so I'm surprised it's mostly stayed in Japan. Crunchyroll streamed the Fafner Exodus season, but that's the closest it's gotten to an official release overseas.)

2.) Were you there during the Evangelion 3.33 delays, and how difficult was that process? Do you foresee that happening again when the inevitable 4.44 arrives?

3.) How important is Funimation's relationship with Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Toonami over the years in terms of generating buzz and sales? And will the recent buyout by Sony affect that relationship, do you think?
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:12 am Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:
Man, this whole episode was a mix of a nostalgia trip and just making me feel old. Laughing
Wizduden64 wrote:
I was a teenager during the anime DVD bubble. Anyone remember Media Play? Man I feel old...

I miss the days of going into Waldenbooks back in the day in the mall when they had racks of manga. (I'm dated now...) Or Best Buy. Or Borders.

Likewise, I am old and dated. Sad Anime cry This podcast has reminded me that I've been meaning to update my entry for Robotech.....
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:59 am Reply with quote
"company representative" ... oops. I think it's time to change that Smile
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:16 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
"company representative" ... oops. I think it's time to change that Smile

I was wondering what company he was representing..... Razz Laughing
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lheiskell
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Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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Location: Fort Worth, TX
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:37 am Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:

Speaking of, question for Lance (I'm only halfway through the episode so maybe this comes up). Funimation is the one licensor that was really strong before and after the bubble, and one apparent side effect is that some old shows they licensed have hung around for 15 years or more now Not just the Dragon Balls and Fruits Baskets, but the real deep catalog stuff, like Kiddy Grade, Moonphase, Rumbling Hearts, Peach Girl, Desert Punk, Suzuka, that kind of thing. All still available to stream, or buy on DVD or download. Were those licensed in perpetuity, or do they come up for renewal every few years and the terms remain acceptable to all parties?


Yup. Kiddy Grade is still one of my favorites. Partially for my first full brand launch. The only problem about Kiddy Grade was that the plot was finally revealed in the middle of the show. If you judged the show buy the first volume or two and dropped, you missed out on a good show.

Shows are typically licensed for 5 to 7 years. We had a good formula for keeping shows out in retail shelves with box sets, Classic and SAVE lines. We also made certain that the shows were available for streaming. Based on survey data that I collected, a lot of consumers (like 70%) watched the entire show either online or on TV before purchasing the series.

Most of the titles we licensed were profitable, so we kept renewing the license. The renewal was based on

A) if the show still had an audience to purchase
B) estimate units we could sell in 1 -3 years based on wholesale price
C) streaming and digital download revenue

Acquisition would negotiate a price that was base for FUNimation and the Japanese licensor and HUZZAH! FUNimation got the show again.
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lheiskell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:39 am Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
Tempest wrote:
"company representative" ... oops. I think it's time to change that Smile

I was wondering what company he was representing..... Razz Laughing


Old title from 2003 when ANN had to install a new forum. Ha Ha Ha.
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lheiskell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:53 am Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
My favourite bubble memory was when FUNimation decided to cancel the Dragon Ball Z Ultimate Uncut Special Editions in favour of the Orange box sets without compromise to the patrons who put their trust and money into the release prior while under the impression that said patrons were supporting the industry. Those same patrons also got laughed off the forums because their contributions towards anime recognition were minor compared to that of cable network viewers and fansubbers.


I was so focused on all the anime other than Dragon Ball Z. It was always more of a Wal-Mart mass market show with Home Video, licensing and production. There were many internal owners of the show.

I wish we could have continued the Dragon Box Sets. That decision was beyond my control.

I did make certain that the Ocean Dub got a release. My initial pitch was a standard DVD box set with just the discs at an affordable price that could stay on retail shelves for a long time. As you know, it got packaged all together in a weird box format for an expensive price. Unfortunately, that thing went out of print because it was expensive to procude due to it's size and shape for additional print runs of 1,000-2,000. That thing would never fit on retail. I don't think it even got placed in Canada.
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lheiskell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:54 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
"company representative" ... oops. I think it's time to change that Smile


How about "Old Fart Anime Alum"
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lheiskell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Wizduden64 wrote:
I hope you aren't tired of the medium by now.

And here I am today writing this post in a con hotel room.

One question, however. Why did anime DVDs of the mid-2000s era have dub-titles, switchable camera angles, and OP/EDs rerecorded in english?

Peace out Lance.

-Sam Kirby


The OP/EDs were done for potential TV broadcast. A lot of voice actors are also signers and stage actors. A lot of people in production were in bands. Very creative staff.

I don't have an answer for dub-titles or for the camera angles.

Peace out Sam
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Mach Rider



Joined: 19 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Lance, what do you think went wrong with Case Closed? As in like biggest single defining factor for why it didn't sell?
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lheiskell
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Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:18 pm Reply with quote
Mach Rider wrote:
Lance, what do you think went wrong with Case Closed? As in like biggest single defining factor for why it didn't sell?


We had to purchase the series in 52 episode chucks, not the usual 13 or 26 episode variety.

There is a breakeven number of units to recoup the expense of dubbing a series. Dubbing 52 episodes is a significant expense. Then you take into account licensing a popular show in Japan that is not that well known. Those advances do add up as well.

So you have 52 episodes of licensing and dub production costs on a show that just does ok in sales.

Sales on the show were ok compared to any anime series. Long running shows need to maintain a sales level and Case Closed didn't hit that level.
The movies did ok. Movies for any show do ok to keep acquiring.

This was before the norm of subtitled only releases. Back then you had to factor the cost of an English dub.
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lheiskell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:25 pm Reply with quote
LightningCount wrote:

1.) Do you have any sense how the Fafner scifi/mecha franchise did for Funimation? You released the first series and movie on DVD and Blu Ray a while back (circa 2012), but the prequel OVA and modern sequel series haven't been touched. Is it a matter of sales or just licensing issues with King Records? (The production values on this franchise have really gotten impressive in recent years, so I'm surprised it's mostly stayed in Japan. Crunchyroll streamed the Fafner Exodus season, but that's the closest it's gotten to an official release overseas.)


Fafner did not perform for Geneon. When FUNimation did the box set, that didn't perform.

Maybe that's why they aren't doing anything for the other titles. That's after my time there.

LightningCount wrote:

2.) Were you there during the Evangelion 3.33 delays, and how difficult was that process? Do you foresee that happening again when the inevitable 4.44 arrives?


I was not in the day-to-day of that series, but I know it was time consuming.

LightningCount wrote:

3.) How important is Funimation's relationship with Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Toonami over the years in terms of generating buzz and sales? And will the recent buyout by Sony affect that relationship, do you think?


A show being on TV is the best commercial for the home video release.

I prefer not to speculate how the ATT/Crunchyroll/Adult Swim umbrella will affect broadcast.
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GNPixie



Joined: 25 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:25 pm Reply with quote
LightningCount wrote:

1.) Do you have any sense how the Fafner scifi/mecha franchise did for Funimation? You released the first series and movie on DVD and Blu Ray a while back (circa 2012), but the prequel OVA and modern sequel series haven't been touched. Is it a matter of sales or just licensing issues with King Records? (The production values on this franchise have really gotten impressive in recent years, so I'm surprised it's mostly stayed in Japan. Crunchyroll streamed the Fafner Exodus season, but that's the closest it's gotten to an official release overseas.)


It didn't do well with Geneon or Funi (they mentioned as much on an older ANNcast iirc), hence why Right of Left and Exodus video licenses probably haven't happened yet. Fafner's an odd duck to begin with, given (a) the original series is fairly old and most people wrote it off as an Eva clone in the West (It was massive on LiveJournal though, with translations of the Drama CDs and what not) and (b) having a constant narrative that makes it hard for newcomers to jump in with everything mattering to some extent.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Play Word-Association with "What springs to mind when I say '00's Bubble'?", and I almost Pavlov-respond "...Coyote Ragtime Show."
The time when ADV was buying up any new licenses coming down from the importer on current TV ratings, while Japan-connected companies like Bandai and Geneon were trying to export the current hits, and any sense of stateside fan appeal came later...Just a matter of marketing, and they'll learn to like it.

While it was a shame to lose Suncoast to the rise of DVD and Amazon online discounts, Bubbles pop because of one unexpected event that nobody worked into their strategies, and we had two: Best Buy throwing a tantrum and getting out of retail when they couldn't sell all these singles of unknown properties they were told would be "trendy", and Sojitz pulling their licenses out from under ADV.
Importing licenses to gamble on hard retail was TOO big a dice-roll, once we had enough anime being watched to be good or bad, and Streaming, at the end of the 00's, created a new market where new titles had to be "auditioned" with the fans before establishing a hit market.
(We'd had that Audition market all along, and it was doing its job to raise awareness for new breakout titles, but in secret, since the fan digisub "gray-market" was still seen as the work of Nasty Pirates.)

lheiskell wrote:
Shows are typically licensed for 5 to 7 years. We had a good formula for keeping shows out in retail shelves with box sets, Classic and SAVE lines. We also made certain that the shows were available for streaming. Based on survey data that I collected, a lot of consumers (like 70%) watched the entire show either online or on TV before purchasing the series.

Most of the titles we licensed were profitable, so we kept renewing the license. The renewal was based on
A) if the show still had an audience to purchase
B) estimate units we could sell in 1 -3 years based on wholesale price
C) streaming and digital download revenue


Seemed as if because Funi was the ambitious "new kid", competing with the other companies to show "We're more than just DBZ!" in the 00's, they were actually a few years ahead of the Bubble:
They figured out that Boxsets were selling more than the Singles that fans (and retail) were mutinying against, and they got into Streaming even before the getting was good. (If they'd waited, we might have an app that works as well as Crunchyroll's, but we'd all be worse off for it.)

As for my questions for Funi insiders, marketing decisions, and relations with CN/AS, I don't have a single question for Funi that doesn't have the words "Sgt." and "Frog" in it. And if they're smart, they KNOW the question. Evil or Very Mad
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