Forum - View topic
Some feedback surrounding recent events...


Goto page Previous  1, 2

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> ANN Feedback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9644
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:44 am Reply with quote
Quote:
They did go after TUG's daughter.


I only want to add that I do not support this kind of behavior. I don't care who it's being done to. Publishing people's personal information, even if it's information that was already public in a different context is unacceptable. Identifying and harassing people's family, especially their children is even worse. Even if someone does it in support of ANN, I would never condone it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
octopodpie
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 1870
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:58 am Reply with quote
Absolutely agreed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9644
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:43 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
A problem is that you really are just reporting on one side of it. Now, I don't expect you to report on every little embarrassing thing that Monica, Ron, and Jaime get up to, but their bad behaviour should be acknowledged in some way. When you posted about the law suit, I saw a lot of posts in the forum wondering why Vic was going after Monica's fiancée, clearly unaware of his mountain of anti-Vic tweets. Jaime dodging her papers and then gloating about it is also something worth mentioning.


We generally don't report on people's bad behaviour. Allegations of sexual assault, intimidation and inappropriate behaviour. Those can be newsworthy. People acting like idiots or jerks online? That's not news (for us).

There are a lot of jerks in the anime industry, there are a lot of people who have done stupid or inappropriate things. Unless it presents a potential danger to someone, we generally don't cover it.

I do see your point about clarifying why Toye is involved, but aside from that, most of the online bickering isn't newsworthy.

Mignogna has been extremely smart with his online presence. The others, not so much. But the "wins" online pundits are claiming usually aren't nearly as impactful as they are making them out to be, and most won't have much, or any impact in court.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Psycho 101
Moderator


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 14828
Location: Inn of the Last Home
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:57 pm Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
This shit isn't a game. There is no "winning" and "losing" because we have the audacity to act less than perfect under these circumstances.


On a personal note this right here is something more people who have decided to pointlessly embroil themselves in this topic need to get through their heads. This is not some little internet game that doesn't matter. This is not some soapbox for you to stand on and "rally" people with such behavior no matter which side you are on. This is not a goddamn joke anymore. When you start threatening people, start making veiled threats regarding their family, post links and photos and info of said family, then you have more than crossed a [expletive] line. If that were my family I would straight up hospitalize any of the people who did it if I ever met them face to face. The fact that in the face of such harassment people want to criticize those targeted individuals for being upset or unprofessional is beyond deplorable and makes you just as bad as the people perpetrating that behavior itself. There is no excuse for that behavior towards anyone, by anyone. Period.

This sort of crap is why I generally avoid shitter because it seems to simply exist anymore just to help promote the lowest common denominator of people and this sort of conduct. Anything useful seems to just get swept under the rug.


On a moderator note if anyone, regardless of what side you are on for any of this, posts something that even has the faintest whiff of this sort of behavior, or support of it, you'll be removed without hesitation or warning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12907
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:35 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
We generally don't report on people's bad behaviour. Allegations of sexual assault, intimidation and inappropriate behaviour. Those can be newsworthy.


Well, like how you investigated and put together an article featuring tweets to layout the basis for the sexual misconduct allegations against Vic, how about investigating and putting together an article featuring tweets to layout the basis for the defamation, interference in business, and civil conspiracy allegations against Monica and co?

Further harming ANN's image regarding this issue is actually your Shield Hero preview guide. The words of your reviewers do reflect on the site, so them taking issue with Shield Hero because "false accusations practically never happen" is taken as the site's opinion, which means your stance is also that Vic is 100% guilty. That you made no official statement regarding the false accusations against Justin *****, or that you still haven't reported on Todd ****** and how he has solid proof the accusations against him are false, comes off as you not wanting to admit the possibility that the Vic accusations could also be false.

Now, I'm not accusing you of that. I'm sure you just didn't find those things newsworthy/you're still working on the article. I'm just trying to shed light on how others view things.

That brings us to the Hero Hei thing, because how you handled it definitely came off as you trying to silence an opposing opinion rather than trying to protect your copyrighted content. You admitted to your inappropriate behaviour in this thread, but I recommend messaging Hei directly to apologise. He's a decent guy and will mention it in a video. It's sure to bring more positive regard your way.


Last edited by Vaisaga on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
octopodpie
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 1870
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga:
Quote:
Well, like how you investigated and put together an article featuring tweets to layout the basis for the sexual misconduct allegations against Vic, how about investigating and putting together an article featuring tweets to layout the basis for the defamation, interference in business, and civil conspiracy allegations against Monica and co?


That article isn't "featuring tweets" at all. I don't think there's a single tweet IN the article. The stories in the article were relayed to me personally by the alleged victims. I'm not sure how that would even work in reverse, like you're suggesting. Furthermore, at this point those specific allegations of defamation are already being laid out in court by Vic's representation and, presumably, countered by Monica and Co's representation.

At the time of that the original article about the sexual allegations was written, none of that existed. There were no lawyers arguing whether the sexual allegations were true or not otherwise I'd have just written that up because they'd have done all the "investigating" on the alleged victims and Vic's behalf for me.

So in short, you'll get the counter article when things move forward in court, but it'll be written by News, not Interest.

Edit: I double-checked and there isn't any tweets embedded or linked to in the article: http://4NN.cx/.142212. If you're referring to Marchi, Rial, or other VAs tweets that were written here: http://4NN.cx/.143664, I considered those public statements and they brought forth new allegations, thus newsworthy. Similarly, I wrote the same articles when Mignogna tweeted responses: http://4NN.cx/.143423 because his response to allegations are newsworthy.

Edit 2: You keep saying "you" but your post actually involves at least five or six separate staff members. You can dislike editorial's opinions on Shield Hero, but no one involved with that were involved in the Mignogna articles (i.e. myself, I didn't participate in that Preview Guide and have never watched Shield Hero). You can disagree with the YouTube incident but that involves Chris/Tempest (and he's commented on that himself). You can also feel frustrated about lack of Haberkorn coverage. That's the one thing that actually has to do with me.

I made a judgment call regarding whether to proceed with submitting that story for publication after spending weeks on it and directly speaking with almost everyone who was there. We made an internal decision but that's all I can say about the matter. If it becomes relevant again, the legwork is done.


Last edited by octopodpie on Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4093
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:48 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
He's a decent guy and will mention it in a video.


Just looking at his video titles, I have a hard time buying that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9644
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
You admitted to your inappropriate behaviour in this thread, but I recommend messaging Hei directly to apologise.


I messaged him publicly to apologize on Twitter. I apologized for falsely (mistakenly) accusing him of lying about the outcome of the YouTube dispute.

Quote:
He's a decent guy and will mention it in a video.

He comes across as very decent. But his message is essentially "anti-forced diversity." If you support that kind of advocacy, then I guess you can call him a nice guy.
https://medium.com/reflections-of-a-grown-up-fan/the-myth-of-forced-diversity-e44a8525140a

No matter how decent he acts in other ways, I simply can't excuse the message he frequently espouses on his YouTube.

Quote:
That you made no official statement regarding the false accusations against Justin *** , or that you still haven't reported on Todd *** and how he has solid proof the accusations against him are false, comes off as you not wanting to admit the possibility that the Vic accusations could also be false.


Actually, Todd's public statements, along with the public statements of others, confirm the event happened and that Jessie was drunk at the time (according to witnesses, allegedly too drunk to consent). Pride*'s follow-up messages (the one's he published) makes the whole thing extremely messy. Her version is believable, but so is his. Covering the allegations on ANN, even if we told Todd's whole version of the story, would do irreparable damage to his reputation. It's because the evidence isn't solid enough against him, and the points he made in his defence are valid, that we have chosen to not cover it. The veracity of the story didn't meet the bar that we set to report on it, this is done out of consideration for the accused.

The allegations against Justin were laughable. The whole story, if you take her 100% at her word, is that the worst thing he did was badmouth her to her gym owner. The allegations aren't newsworthy. She doesn't allege anything else. If her version of the story is 100% true, then Justin's a bit of a jerk. That's the worst case scenario. For what it's worth, I don't believe her, but I don't feel the need to go into detail about her, but just look at the fact that she added him to a list of allegedly very bad people for doing something that didn't belong on the list at all.

I redacted names in this post because I don't want this being the first thing people see when they google these names. None of the people discussed here really want the topic getting more publicity. If you're kind, you'll remove the family names in your post too.

Quote:
Shield Hero

As Lynzee pointed out, the people involved in Preview Guide aren't involved in this at all. We don't tell our reviewers (most of whom are freelancers) what to say in their reviews. They come to their opinions independently. If they all say they same thing... I guess it's a pretty reasonable conclusion to come to. They also didn't universally hate it. 2 out of 4 reviewers gave it a passing score (3 stars). One of them, Theron, went on to review it weekly and has been giving it a pretty good score (Averaging 4 stars). You can see his most recent review (4.5 stars) here: animenewsnetwork.com/review/the-rising-of-the-shield-hero/episode-21/.147257


Last edited by Tempest on Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12907
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:16 pm Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
That article isn't "featuring tweets" at all. I don't think there's a single tweet IN the article. The stories in the article were relayed to me personally by the alleged victims.


My bad. I assumed the images and stories featured in the articles were gathered from Twitter among other sources.

Quote:
Edit 2: You keep saying "you" but your post actually involves at least five or six separate staff members.


I know, but like I said your staff does represent the organization as whole which is why I use "you" as a collective (also because I don't know which individual is responsible for what). The site allowed them to publish their views and that is seen as the site supporting their views. This is why people like Rosanne get fired for one bad tweet, because the network doesn't want to be mistaken as supporting a racist.

Speaking of tweets, one of the harshest critics was Zac, who strongly represents the entire site being one of the top guys here.

Cam0 wrote:
Just looking at his video titles, I have a hard time buying that.


Heh, yeah, I'll fully admit their clickbaity titles are pretty silly. But I was referring to how he actually made a video defending Monica when a false story about her was getting passed around.

Tempest wrote:
If you're kind, you'll remove the family names in your post too.


Done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7885
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:08 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:


Speaking of tweets, one of the harshest critics was Zac, who strongly represents the entire site being one of the top guys here.


I didn't write any preview guide entries about it - I complained about the show, yeah, pretty harshly, on my personal Twitter account. Well, that's what I really think of it. Tempest can make new rules about that sort of thing if he wants, and if he does, of course I'll follow those rules.

We don't tell our reviewers what to say, period. I edit their work - if there's something in there I think is too much, I'll take it out. I'm pretty permissive, though, and I'll usually ask them to clarify something before changing it. I don't want to misrepresent what their real opinion is. I'm not interested in controlling the narrative - in fact, I went out of my way to assign the Shield Hero reviews to someone who would genuinely appreciate the show in the way I think people reading reviews of Shield Hero - and watching it - would enjoy discussing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12907
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:18 am Reply with quote
Yes, I was referring to what you posted on Twitter. I get that it's your personal account so what you say there is meant to be unrelated to ANN, but the reality is it's not seen that way.

Also it's one thing to hate on a show, but accusing it's audience of being "vicious, regressive misogynists" is crossing a line imo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
james_the_composer



Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:06 pm Reply with quote
I'm very surprised at how maturely you guys are responding to all of the comments. Like I said, now that the company has been caught in certain controversies you guys all have to deal with the angry hordes so to speak, and now there's all this damage control you've got to deal with. No one deserves the death threats, no one deserves all that hate. Unfortunately in this world, what goes around comes around.

I tried my best to stay out of mentioning specifics on any topics because I didn't want the thread itself to be locked down over mentioning that voice actor that has the court proceedings. We'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

It's so odd to me, because entertainment and these conventions and events surrounding it is like a celebration of life. Where American hollywood has taken most IPs and sucked the warmth out of them, anime has always seems to remain a more bright and positive alternative.

My point is this...it's amazing how much hate (in America) is now surrounding a form of entertainment that's meant to in it's nature and at it's core be a positive alternative. Remember the nature of what it's all about, anime fans are anime fans because hollywood's content over here is stormy, muddy and boring. Our 2D animation, with the exception of some shows like Steven Universe, Avatar and a few others, are/were mostly generic bland and we had a lack of serialized content. You're not gonna sit there and compare Dexters Laboratory and Johnny Bravo growing up to Inuyasha or Naruto, the difference is night and day, you just can't account for the beautiful painting, the masterfully orchestrated music, the intricate narratives.

We all looked to you guys to find something BETTER than what corporate bought and paid for elitist Los Angelians who had no care for what they were making and just saw it as like 'meh, it's for kids' for the most part, with few exceptions falling through the cracks. The way I see it, you guys were reporting on what the people wanted, the underground, you guys were FOR the people where Hollywood wasn't, THAT'S why they are so pissed off now, because they turned to underground niche outlets to get away from mainstream entertainment.

From the articles that did come out, from all of the opinions that have been there, the response that you guys have needed all along is to say that you are completely unbiased. The incidents you've had have not been few and far between in, say, the last 6 months or so, it's been multiple representatives of this company, volunteers or not, that all seemingly have exactly the same biased opinion, and then seem to want to defend that biased stance very strongly, even aggressively doing so. It makes it look like there's some kind of conspiracy in where you need to for some reason have that rooted, biased stance. The aggression were not only just in response to all of the hate that's been thrown your way initially...now it's become just horde hate, and again that's something that no one should have to deal with.

You have people now coming at you angry, not because you are reporting this or that information, but it's because seemingly every single one of you seems to have exactly the same stance instead of publicly stating that you absolutely will not agree with either side, and you guys whether you could see it or not, meant a lot to them. And now the people are turned to these Youtubers who are either unbiased or taking the opposite side of the line that you guys drew in the sand, it's sad to see, these Youtubers are making a lot of money off of these news outlet's loss and off of the outrage culture that's brewed up surrounding all of this.

Now the damage seems to be done, the articles were written, the tweets were all put out there, and in order for there to be damage control...I don't know, it's just not looking good, and it's a shame because many of us have followed and want to follow anime news network into the future, and are hoping that anime returns to many of it's creative roots, and that anime news network would be there to report on this as it still is possible that a new renaissance could be ushered in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9644
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:57 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm very surprised at how maturely you guys are responding to all of the comments
. Thanks.

Quote:
instead of publicly stating that you absolutely will not agree with either side,


I think you're referring to the Vic issue? ANN absolutely does not have a position on whether or not he is guilty of some, all, or none of the acts that he is alleged to have committed.

We merely reported on the allegations and on the information that our investigation turned up. We tried to paint as complete and unbiased a picture as possible.

Individuals at ANN are free to draw their own conclusions, but they are expected to report the news in an unbiased fashion regardless of their personal opinions. Away from news (and interest) reporting, they are more than free to publicly state their own opinions. No form of journalism ethics (AFAIK - but I admit to having only read a few dozen of the hundreds of different journalism codes out there, most importantly the SPJ and CAJ codes) requires journalists to be without opinion. If everyone at ANN appears to have come to the same conclusion, maybe it's simply the most reasonable conclusion to come to given the available data.

That said, I also know that numerous ANN staff, myself included, have not stated our opinions on the matter. People are merely making assumptions about our opinions.

-t
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
james_the_composer



Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
We merely reported on the allegations and on the information that our investigation turned up. We tried to paint as complete and unbiased a picture as possible.


Is ANN going to keep reporting on the case now, or was that a one off kind of thing? It seems that moving forward if Monica Rial is caught in contradicting information, which has seemed to be the case in the depositions so far, it would definitely be news worthy that she had lied to the degree in where ANN had gone so far to make an article.

A lot of people's feedback I think would be to have stayed out of it completely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9644
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:24 am Reply with quote
james_the_composer wrote:

Is ANN going to keep reporting on the case now, or was that a one off kind of thing? It seems that moving forward if Monica Rial is caught in contradicting information, which has seemed to be the case in the depositions so far, it would definitely be news worthy that she had lied to the degree in where ANN had gone so far to make an article.


Articles about the depositions (and other recent filings) are in the works. A little late, but it's a lot of material!

I think I know what incident you're talking about when you say "cought in contradicting information," I don't personally see it that way*, but the ANN article won't present an opinion, merely "she said," "He said," "The witness said."

*My interpretation: The witness walked into the room after the alleged assault, and said he didn't see anything to suggest that it had happened. That corroborates a small part of Rial's allegation, but neither confirms, nor denies ( Anime hyper ) the primary allegation. He simply wasn't in the room when it allegedly happened. But I repeat: No interpretation will be published in the article, not mine, not our writers', not those of random internet lawyers and shock jock YouTubers.

-T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> ANN Feedback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group