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Kaysuami wrote:

Isn't that the blog you post on Toaru Wiki, OH&S?

Well, it was posted here first. Then made into a blog post. Then synchronized.

It is a very pragmatic situation, she gets more power and gets out of control, touma gets a nonsense power up to solve everything.
Do you know what is really disappointing about this?
Misaka, when she tries to do something alone, fails and is to blame for the disaster for not asking her friends for help.
Seriously, while Touma does everything on his own, yet he always wins, always solves the problem, it's surprising that the JC staff always strives to make Misaka look great, but she has never shown anything worthy of that Merit. With the accelerator she couldn't even touch it, now she had to be rescued again by Touma, in the WW3 arc where she couldn't even rescue Touma because he doesn't need her at all she's a nuisance to Touma, but she depends seems on him.

it's amazing how suddenly the whole series conspired against she turning her into a useless pathetic, dragged and ridiculous weak damsel in distress without a reason for this to happen.

I will grant them that at the very least Touma and the other dude couldn't one-shot the whole thing until Misaki and Kuroko did their part so in turn it's a team effort. But yeah, I get your grievances which makes this entire sports festival arc in Railgun kind of wonky. At least it's still relatively better than Index's take which was draggy and godawful.

Anneyuno1 wrote:

Do you know what is really disappointing about this?
Misaka, when she tries to do something alone, fails and is to blame for the disaster for not asking her friends for help.
.

This makes the entire filler arc in Railgun S even more eye-brow raising since Mikoto actually did ask for help for taking out a bunch of giant robots and a killer satellite in order to save a bunch of kids. It's not like they retcon it (I believe they showed a flashback scene of Kongo's involvement) so it felt like it went backwards on Mikoto's character.

^
I'll entirely disagree with that. Mikoto is naturally inclined to take everything upon herself, whether because it's her nature or she feels it's her responsibility as someone with power, even if that means suiciding to do it. That she was willing to admit that she couldn't do it alone and needed help was, I felt, a key turning point for her.

That being said, I will agree that it makes her look bad compared to what they let Touma get away with. That's part of the reason why I loved this team-up between Touma and Sogiita; Touma actually didn't get to do that much, and Mikoto only thinks that he did the lion's share of the work since she isn't aware of what else was going on.

Anneyuno1 wrote:

<snip>

Yikes. This opinion reflects a very poor understanding of the franchise. Or maybe the inconsistencies brought about by the anime adaptations are just that pervasive? Let’s get to it in order then:

Regarding Misaka: You’re being too hard on her. She honestly didn’t do anything wrong in this arc. She just had the bad luck of being caught in a trap in which she had no idea what the true aim was. The issue of not relying on her friends from the Sisters Arc (and the repetition of ideas in the anime only arcs) didn’t really apply here because she actively relied on her friends in this arc and those friends ended up having a major role in rescuing her; in fact Shokuhou was the main reason she couldn’t immediately rely on them. This arc along with the Remnant Arc from Index II have given her a greater appreciation of her friends and on relying on them. You’ve also misunderstood her role in Index III (or rather her minor role) as the WWIII arc was entirely focused on the trials of the 3 male MCs. There was meaning in her arriving to rescue Touma from the Star of Bethlehem but he couldn’t leave with her without finishing the original task of rescuing Index as well safely downing the flying fortress. But ironically, the idea that Misaka could generally be a nuisance/burden to Touma rather than help is an idea that is explored later in New Testament. But the question is: nuisance/burden in what way? Its definitely not what you’re insinuating.
Regarding Touma: As for Kamijou’s role in Railgun, see my previous post where I go in depth on that matter. As for general comments on him, you’re just objectively wrong. He does rush in on his own but he rarely ever solves or wins his battles just by himself. How you came to this conclusion I have no idea; maybe it was the poor anime adaptation or maybe it shows a poor ability to keep track of what’s going on. But also ironically, the same character flaws that Misaka has also show up in Kamijou as well and are only dealt with in New Testament. Key’s description of Misaka’s character equally applies to Kamijou (all you have to do is switch the names). The two characters are actually really similar to each other. They also generally cover for each other when they are at their most emotionally fragile. Maybe that’s why the ship is so popular.
Regarding Touma’s “nonsense power-up”: This’ll take too long to explain so I’ll keep it brief. The central mystery of the entire franchise is just what Imagine Breaker (IB) actually is. IB’s lack of explanation sticks out compared to all other abilities (even Sogiita’s as least we know he’s a gemstone esper) as everything in the magic and science side has an explanation; its actually one of the key characteristics of this series that everything has an explanation and that you can count the number of actual asspulls in one hand. There have been more than enough clues beforehand in both the light novels and the anime about there being something else beyond IB that make Kamijou Touma special (though many of these clues were omitted from the Index anime or not given a strong focus). In short, as soon as his arm went flying you, should have known exactly what was going to come out; or rather that ‘something’ was going to come out. Sure it was more of a spectacle than anyone could have expected but the basic fact of there being a dragon behind IB has been alluded to from the very beginning of the series. Here are the earliest hints:
1. IB was associated with dragons in the very first encounter with magicians. The very first magic that IB negates is Index’s Walking Church outfit which was said to have been “...impossible to destroy unless the legendary dragon of St.George appeared.” Also the first direct magical attack in the series which IB couldn’t properly negate as it overcome by pure attrition was Index’s Dragon Breath; “...the strike of the legendary dragon of St. George”.
2. The most obvious imagery was in the Index anime’s most famous scene with the battle against the alchemist; where right after Touma’s right hand was cut off, Aureolus’ anxieties and Ars Magna spell supposedly conjured up a dragon head from Touma’s bleeding wound. The novel also mention Touma’s eyes glowing red while this was happening. Sound familiar? This was handwaved away by the narration as just a result of Aureolus’ anxieties, but in the novels Touma speculated that the dragon was far too specific of an image to have been formed. Heaven Canceller also mentions something about Touma having a fantasy-like body.

Surprise, surprise. The dragon was real (with the first dragon coming out of Touma this episode being exactly the same as from the Index scene). This is one of the franchise’s best usage of the Chekov’s Gun trope and it first fired at the climax of WWIII when the invisible spectre came out and pulled the rug from under Fiamma’s feet. That was a HUGE revelation that was simply glossed over in Index III. His eyes were also glowing when during this in the novels. The big thing of note is that whatever it is, it showed superiority over Fiamma who raised his position something beyond what a Level 5 could achieve and honestly beyond whatever level Misaka achieved during this arc. Fiamma would've wrecked her; and Fiamma got wrecked. Why wouldn't Misaka?

Now the bigger takeaway from all this isn’t the fact that there are dragons; that’s far too shallow for this series and doesn’t explain anything. The big question is why dragons? What do dragons in the Raildex franchise represent symbolically and thematically? Why does that apply to Touma? Who is the only other character in the franchise to be referred to as a dragon? Why is that character referred to as a dragon? What specific thing did he say about Touma when describing him? Hm? What’s that? They omitted his words from Index III? Christ, I hate Index III.

You know, I get the dragons are supposed to be part of the mystery behind Imagine Breaker, I get that Touma represents "all that is good" in Railgun and that he didn't do it all on his own.

But man, that moment feels like a crappy moment to me. It feels like a complete deflation of the tension rather than a satisfying resolution.

Frankly, I liked the little slice of life interactions Misaka had with her friends (and the implication that Misaki indirectly humiliates Misaka with her mental abilities) far more than the fight resolution.

As for the Ship between Touma and Misaka, igonring the fact taht misaka is techncially 14 at the start of Index and 15 around the time of NT/GT, i just don't like the ship. Like I ask, when have Touma and Misaka had an actual moment outside of combat that revolves around personality and character traits and not some odd story contrivance.

I've been watching Kaguya Sama and reading the manga for it and while i do think the double tsundere antics get tiring, i find there is more chemestry there than between Misaka and Touma which feels like Touma has no clue about Misaka's feelings and Misaka at times feels like it's a one sided tsundere crush without much further attraction to Touma as a person rather than the ideal

(yes, i'm being very cynical and cold with RailDex but man, it feels painful not seeing the show evolve past the tropes of 2004)

So I guess Kuroko's back to her usual shtick. That's a shame, she's actually likeable when she's not doing her psycho lesbian routine.

OH&S wrote:

[snip]

This explains a lot that I wasn't understanding from watching the episode. (Including incorrectly identifying who was generating the dragons, but whatever.) Those previous hints you mentioned are so nebulous and buried so far back in the series that I'm not sure how an anime-only viewer can be reasonably expected to pick up on them. That's the thing that probably irritates me the most about the franchise: that you can't fully appreciate everything it's doing without also keeping up with the dozens of novels and manga. Too little of the franchise can stand well enough on its own in animated form.

Izanagi009 wrote:

But man, that moment feels like a crappy moment to me. It feels like a complete deflation of the tension rather than a satisfying resolution.

Frankly, I liked the little slice of life interactions Misaka had with her friends (and the implication that Misaki indirectly humiliates Misaka with her mental abilities) far more than the fight resolution.

Absolutely on both points.

Quote:

As for the Ship between Touma and Misaka, igonoring the fact that Misaka is technically 14 at the start of Index and 15 around the time of NT/GT, i just don't like the ship.

I have found it best to entirely ignore anything said about the ages of characters in this franchise. They're just not realistic. (Don't even get me started on how unbelievable Stiyl's age is according to the first novel. . .)

Quote:

I've been watching Kaguya Sama and reading the manga for it and while i do think the double tsundere antics get tiring, i find there is more chemestry there than between Misaka and Touma which feels like Touma has no clue about Misaka's feelings and Misaka at times feels like it's a one sided tsundere crush without much further attraction to Touma as a person rather than the ideal

Any list of the most romantically dense male protagonists in anime history would have to include Touma among the top 3 (at the least). Been that way for at least a decade, too. The real question is whether Touma started the trend of ultra-dense male protagonists or was a product of an existing trend at the time.

Cam0 wrote:

So I guess Kuroko's back to her usual shtick. That's a shame, she's actually likeable when she's not doing her psycho lesbian routine.

As much as I don't normally mind yuri pairings, I have to agree with this sentiment.

Quote:

And what, exactly, is the nature of Sogiita Gunha's power, anyway? He seems able to manifest his will as sheer power, including making giant energy balls, and now he can generate dragon heads which eat away at Mikoto's otherworldly power, something which he did not seem aware himself that he could do? I can appreciate keeping some mysteries floating about him, but there seems no logic to his power whatsoever.

There are other issues here as well. Touma gets his arm blown off, but the next thing we see, it's back where it should be. Episode 24 of A Certain Magical Index III, which chronologically happens a couple of months after this, showed that Touma can recover his arm if it is severed or destroyed, so this would mark the first time it happened, I guess? That Touma is never later shown wondering about that in A Certain Magical Index II then becomes a gross inconsistency.

What are you even talking about,the dragons came out from Touma after his right hand got torn off,it was pretty lengthy scene,how do you do even confused him with Gunha there???Not to mention this is not first time dragons appeared from Touma's arm,do you remember first season of Index,Deep Blood arc,fight against Alchemist when Touma got his arm cut off and dragon also appeared?

I enjoyed the climax of this arc. I had previously read the manga so I knew what to expect but I did particularly enjoy seeing dragons finally animated. Not much to say regarding the dragons setpiece except that it is a wtf moment if you don't recall prior information in the series, particularly a notable one in the early series, which will either aggravate anime-only watches or intrigue them hopefully the latter.

OH&S wrote:

The two characters are actually really similar to each other. They also generally cover for each other when they are at their most emotionally fragile. Maybe that’s why the ship is so popular.

The "they also generally cover for each other when they are at their most emotionally fragile" is a bit of a hyperbolic statement if you ask me; the emotional support is mostly one-sided. Mikoto and Touma's relationship isn't really all that interesting or profound beyond Touma simply being there for Mikoto when she needs him the most, an action he would do for anyone. Heck, I would argue the way Index feels for Touma (and her relationship with him) has more character to it than Mikoto's, one reason being that Index seems to love Touma simply for who he is and what they share together. That being said, I agree with everything you said on Touma's "nonsensical power-up." I find that those who are calling it a deus ex machina are simply throwing that word around as a result of their dissatisfaction rather than meditating on the implications of what occurred this episode. Granted, I think there's a conversation to be had about Mikoto's compromised agency during the climax of this arc and some of Kamachi's weaknesses as a writer, but the dragon resolution is not one of them

L0ken wrote:

Quote:

And what, exactly, is the nature of Sogiita Gunha's power, anyway? He seems able to manifest his will as sheer power, including making giant energy balls, and now he can generate dragon heads which eat away at Mikoto's otherworldly power, something which he did not seem aware himself that he could do? I can appreciate keeping some mysteries floating about him, but there seems no logic to his power whatsoever.

There are other issues here as well. Touma gets his arm blown off, but the next thing we see, it's back where it should be. Episode 24 of A Certain Magical Index III, which chronologically happens a couple of months after this, showed that Touma can recover his arm if it is severed or destroyed, so this would mark the first time it happened, I guess? That Touma is never later shown wondering about that in A Certain Magical Index II then becomes a gross inconsistency.

What are you even talking about,the dragons came out from Touma after his right hand got torn off,it was pretty lengthy scene,how do you do even confused him with Gunha there???Not to mention this is not first time dragons appeared from Touma's arm,do you remember first season of Index,Deep Blood arc,fight against Alchemist when Touma got his arm cut off and dragon also appeared?

Check the post right before yours. Key already addressed it. Now to hope and edit is done to the actual review so we don't have a comment every so often appearing regarding this.

Izanagi009 wrote:

But man, that moment feels like a crappy moment to me. It feels like a complete deflation of the tension rather than a satisfying resolution.

Out of curiosity (and this a genuine question) what would you have considered a satisfying solution given what we know about the characters involved and their abilities?

Animation-wise, the dragons were underwhelming to me. They're nice and impactful on those manga spreads, but seeing them all moving they didn't feel nearly as threatening or powerful. Gunha carried the sakuga, and that was great too. Wish his content wasn't cut from Index III, or maybe gets adapted later in some form (very small hopes though).

Last edited by we love lain on Sun May 17, 2020 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Key wrote:

This explains a lot that I wasn't understanding from watching the episode. (Including incorrectly identifying who was generating the dragons, but whatever.) Those previous hints you mentioned are so nebulous and buried so far back in the series that I'm not sure how an anime-only viewer can be reasonably expected to pick up on them. That's the thing that probably irritates me the most about the franchise: that you can't fully appreciate everything it's doing without also keeping up with the dozens of novels and manga. Too little of the franchise can stand well enough on its own in animated form.

Yea but to be fair, I think the series in anime form has already done its due diligence in priming its viewers into expecting, "shit bout to go down" whenever Touma's arm gets severed. That conditioning has been set up regardless of whether you dabble in the source material. Now to be fair to you, the first instance of this was almost 12 years so no one would necessarily blame you for forgetting that now-integral moment which was initially handwaved as being caused by something else. However, Index III also loaded this Chekhov's gun of a development only a year ago: once again, Touma's arm was severed and it almost brought forth the defeat of the antagonist if it weren't for Touma suppressing the power on his own. You know the saying: "third time's the charm" or even, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." At this point, seeing Touma's arm be blown off should prime the aforementioned response, and the reward is seeing what all the fuss is about as it raises intriguing questions about the systems of the To aru would and what the implications of certain things are. Railgun T is simply cashing in on rewarding viewers who always wondered what was up with Touma's body, and that's a question i don't think you needed to be a novel reader to be intrigued by. That being said, I absolutely agree with the notion that the anime adaptations haven't done a comprehensive job with organizing all its pertinent plot details.

On a side note, I find your criticism about exploring more about Dolly's past in the next episode as being a narrative structure issue to be puzzling. Exploring Dolly's past through Mitori's eyes simply serves as an epilogue to this entire arc. From a storytelling standpoint, I could see why placing it here might be more cathartic considering the underlying goals of our two seemingly antagonistic characters (one of them actually being an antagonist) and how their motivations were influenced by the apathetic and morally corrupt machinations of To aru's science side.

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