Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: A Certain Scientific Railgun T
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It's possible that I will change my mind on that impression after seeing how next episode is handled, and if so then I will say something about it in next week's review. However, without knowing what's coming, putting a crucial character's motivational backstory after the climax AND denouement just seems like an odd placement unless it's being used to set something else up. Just feels like it would have been better dealt with this episode, with the post-climax content pushed into next episode. |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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Gunha's scenes are always a joy to see animated and makes me wish we can see him in action some more (Kenichiro Aoki and Takeshi Morita go in). The sound design whenever he's using his power is impeccable. That being said, I get being underwhelmed by the animation on the dragon strike scene. For me, my feelings are mixed: one the one hand there are certain moments in the cut where Hironori Tanaka delivers on the intensity, particular when the green dragon quickly chomps shit out of an arm-shaped projectile emanating out of black mass of otherworldly energy, but then I'm instantly distracted by the hazy color compositing on the dragons or parts of the cut where their movement feels sluggish without any real communication of the monstrous weight/inertia their presence should have to compensate, which comes off as a limitation in the craft rather than a deliberate decision. Ultimately, I found the scene effective moreso due to its imagery rather than the technicality of it |
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Zaiu
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There's two things here I have a problem with, perhaps you're remembering something completely different, but first off in WW3, Touma's eye did not glow red in the Fiamma fight, at least not during the portion you specified. Also in OT2 his glare is what was specified as so intense that a red light could come from them. Also, the IT scene really wasn't as downplayed as you say it was, that's a bit of a exaggeration considering that part is almost entirely word for word. As for what he said about Touma? Wht exactly are you referring to? Because Fiamma called Touma a lot of things, but if you're referring to him calling him a dragon of sorts, that did not happen in OT22 |
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SilverTalon01
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Beyond what Mikoto could/did achieve sure, but beyond what a level 5 could achieve? It seems to me like Accel's spoiler[silver wings] are above the power Fiamma reached at his height. I think this scene is really more about how crazy the dragons are anyway. Even though Mikoto wasn't at full power Fiamma level, hearing imagine breaker trigger then seeing the entire arm pretty much instantly blown away shows how strong the attack was. It flows into why Fiamma would nearly crap himself when he sensed it. Also, the first guy to see it was basically traumatized for life. I definitely don't think it is an ass pull for the dragons to just trivialize her city destroying blast considering Fiamma was going to nuke a continent with one of his blasts. |
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Treecko Tempo
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So I believe Kongo's name is spelled Mitsuki all throughout the review instead of Mitsuko. I'm guessing this is just a mistake from the I key being next to the O key.
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LooseTac
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If I remember correctly dragons symbolize the devil, at least from a historical standpoint.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Or it could just be that there are too many Japanese names common in anime that are all spelled very close to the same way in English. (Don't even get me started on having to stop and think each time to be sure that I am using Misaki and Misaka correctly.) I'll correct that one. |
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Stiles
Posts: 105 |
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I like that you're asking all the right questions Key, but try not to let it bog you down. There's supposed to be mystery and foreshadowing here, Kamachi is only teasing the reader/viewer for future events.
This is the first appearance of the seventh-ranked, you don't really need to know the true identity of his power to appreciate it (and speculate on it). As for Touma, we already knew that there was something beyond the Imagine Breaker and this arc just does away with all pretense without giving everything away. If you (the viewer) are surprised, then great! You're supposed to be, but there were definitely hints leading up to all of this, including the otherworldly power of a theoretical level six. For anything else, you can probably just refer to OH&S's posts. Honestly, I thought the whole episode was strong. If it's messy, it's because the pacing is bad. The beginning of this episode should've been the climax of the previous one. |
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SilverTalon01
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So much this. They should have pushed episode 13 back to do it properly |
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nargun
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One day there will be a show with characters called Tsugumi and Tsumugi. |
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OH&S
Posts: 306 Location: Sydney, Australia |
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There’s a lot to reply to so I’ll respond to valid criticisms of my post first:
@Zaiu: I’ll concede that I was remembering incorrectly about the glowing eyes in the climax of WWIII. Point for Index III, I guess. I still maintain that it wasn’t the complete ‘stop the presses; moment it should have been due to the terrible pacing and other inherent qualities of that adaptation. As for OT2, you’re also right but that doesn’t disprove what I was saying as that interpretation was from Aureolus’ point of view. An alternate interpretation is that his eyes were actually glowing. A valid enough interpretation, that I wasn’t surprised when Kamijou’s eye turned red in this episode as well as in the manga. Also, I wasn’t talking about Fiamma. I was talking about Aiwass (aka DRAGON) in his dialogue with Aleister in the epilogue of OT19 or just before the WWIII arc began. @SilverTalon01: That’s not fair bringing up Accelerator and his spoiler[powers gained by accessing the third tree, Clonoth]. I will concede that maybe I wasn’t giving Misaka’s death ball a fair rap; it probably falls into the same class as Accelerator’s black wings and Fiamma’s Holy Right: sufficiently large or powerful supernatural phenomena that Imagine Breaker can’t immediately negate. I do think that Kamijou could have tackled it differently knowing the death ball’s real strength but at this stage he had not mastered his disruption abilities or know that there exist phenomena he could even do such a thing to. I agree that the focus of that scene was definitely the almighty strength of the dragons; who we already know could BTFO Fiamma rather effortlessly. Speaking of which, have I got a treat for you. The Railgun manga editor recently revealed on his twitter account that each of the dragons have their own specific abilities. This is new previously unrevealed info and the contents are spicy:
The original illustrator and designer of the dragons, Kiya Shii, also recently released a brand new 4K colour illustration of the full Dragon Strike it might just be the best and most unique illustration to come out of this entire franchise! Its definitely my new favorite image alongside NT9’s illustration jackets. Now to address everything else: @Key: I’m honestly on the same page as you regarding the state of the animated franchise. It didn’t feel like Index I/II made any major adaptation error aside from brushing past Kamijou’s character building moments as well as not giving some sort of focus to the finer details of the magic system that make the franchise truly unique (and the bland direction compared to Railgun). But Index III (as well the 7-ish year gap between seasons) flat out broke my heart. Because the potential was there for material that is genuinely superior to what came before it (as well as Railgun) and instead it was such a monumental catastrophe that it may have permanently ruined any anime cred that Index previously had and became the definitive case study in how not to adapt a massively popular LN series to anime. As for dragon clues, admittedly the dragon references from the very first arc are so obscure that it would only make sense on a reread/rewatch after knowing the fact. I was merely pointing out that they were there. But I take personal umbrage with you forgetting the scene with the dragon coming out Kamijou’s arm. For all the crazy things that happen in this series, that moment still takes the cake as being the most wacko and iconic moment in early Index; even more so than the AIM Burst. Regarding Dolly’s conclusion, that’s just the anime being weird. In the manga, we get the full reveal of Kouzaku’s connection to her immediately after the Dragon Strike with a proper epilogue after the events of Episode 14. It really is bizarre how things have been split up this time around; maybe there was no other way to do it due to the ongoing issues resulting from the COVID-19 outbreak. Lastly, there are many long and firmly held beliefs about Kamijou Touma in the general anime community that I’ve flat out never agreed with or are demonstrably false (which is different from saying that you can’t end up hating Kamijou even if you know everything about him; different strokes for different folks after all). But Kamijou being a uniquely dense harem protagonist is beyond ridiculous. Putting aside the fact that Index doesn’t neatly classify as a harem series, this is a guy suffering an identity crisis due to having his memory erased and having a power not firmly fitting into any of the two worlds he knows of getting constantly embroiled and hospitalized in violent events that affect the entire city as well as the entire world in a very short timeframe. He’s low on money due to the freeloader living in his apartment which forces him to be frugal at every turn. He’s missed so much school that he’s in danger of being held back. You’re telling me this guy who’s cursed with bad luck and conditioned to not expect good things to happen to him is suddenly supposed to go: “Oh hey, maybe that violent girl who keeps firing friggin lightning spears at me actually has a crush on me!” To. Hell. With. That. This is all on Misaka for not making her romantic feelings clear. @we love lain: Regarding Misaka’s relationship, I don’t feel like I’m exaggerating given what I know of future developments. By the end of NT, I feel Misaka has become just as important of a pillar in Kamijou’s life as he is to her. It’s a wholly unique kind of pillar/relationship than with Index and spoiler[Othinus]; but also adding its not like one pillar trumps the other. I don’t want to discuss this further because I’m at the very least entitled to my opinion on this. @Izanagi009: Let’s start with an off-topic point of agreement: Kaguya-sama might just be the greatest rom-com manga I’ve ever consumed. Its truly a series where I don’t have a single negative thing to say about it and there are no bad chapters. I’m glad the series has an anime adaptation that gives its material justice. Not sure why you’d be comparing its romantic chemistry to a heavily plot and action-oriented sci-fi magic fantasy battle series like Index but to each his own, I guess. Now to the more disagreeable point about the climax, I’m on two minds about this. Consuming the Railgun anime in a vacuum, I absolutely understand how annoying (and potentially deflating) this would be for the viewer. It came out of nowhere; asspull; deus ex machina; Misaka needs to be saved again; boy character saves the day again; yada yada. I get it; these dragons are practically the eagles from the Lord of the Rings climax... ... ... ...but only in a Railgun vacuum. Knowing that Railgun does not exist in a vacuum, I cannot for the life of me understand how you expected things to end any other way and be disappointed in this revelation/outcome. After Shokuhou and Kuroko did their part, all that was left was for Kamijou to negate the transformation and end the incident. What were you expecting? A more climactic negation? What’s more climactic than the unexpected WTF spectacle of 8 friggin dragons flying out of a severed arm, each with their own specialized designs, colours and abilities eating away a god-like transformation in a science-fiction series while also tripling as a confirmation of a decade old theory, a further revelation of the absolute core mystery of the franchise and the gazillion implications it has on the speculation of future events as well as the characters who witnessed it!? These are nothing remotely similar to the LotR eagles. Please tell me. This criticism of the climax is genuinely alien to me. I’ve never come across such a thing in the 5+ years since this chapter was published. |
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Renasviel
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Buried? I mean, even in anime it's pretty obvious there is more to Imagine Breaker than what first seems. For instance, the fact we know Touma had it before undergoing esper development thanks to his bad luck as a kid. The only expectation for anime-only viewers is that they pay enough attention to what's going on so they can recall major developments later on. You don't need to have read A Certain Scientific Astral Buddy, or Dark Matter, to understand what goes on here. Just some basic knowledge from the original series. And if you don't have that, then I'm not sure why you'd watch a spin off. If you just prefer the spin off, sure, but then complaining about not everything being made obvious to you doesn't make much sense either. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I have said multiple times that I have seen every minute of the animated franchise that's been released in the States, and even some of it that hasn't. (Don't think I've seen all of the Index-tan and the Railgun specials labeled Special-1 to Special-4 on Wikipedia, but none of those involve actual plot.). That's all 151 episodes to date (including the OVAs) and the movie. So you can drop any insinuation that I don't have a full background for the animated side of this franchise. I wouldn't be doing these episode reviews if I didn't. That being said, that viewing has also been spread over at least a decade. So yes, I have knowledge of what's come before in the anime, but expecting anyone short of a superfan of the franchise to keenly remember all those little details which become relevant 100+ episodes and 10+ years later is unrealistic. (And yes, I'm well aware that Touma had Imagine Breaker before he got involved in the esper thing. That much, at least, I do remember off the top of my head.)
We'll have to agree to disagree on that, as the scene you're describing didn't stick in my mind at the time at all. I've gone back and rewatched bits and pieces of the first series over the last couple of years as reference for plot callbacks for the recent series, but never that part, so I'm going to make a point to do that sometime before next episode. As much as I got pissy about it earlier in this post, I usually do appreciate when a series buries foreshadowing like that which is only evident on a second view.
You have some valid points in the text that followed this statement, but my "dense" label still stands, as even in calmer times, when he doesn't have immediate stressors, he's oblivious to indicators that numerous people around him pick up on. And I am far from the only person who has had this opinion about Touma over the years. Guess we'll also have to agree to disagree about how fair this label is.
Then I hope NT does eventually get adapted because I'd like to see how this plays out. (I'm following enough other novel series right now that I don't have time to get into all of that.) Through Index III and the Railgun content so far, he's not shown that he gives her much special value or trust - at least not compared to what he gives anyone else, anyway. Oh, and if I haven't made this clear before, I do appreciate your regular dialog on the franchise over the years, OH&S. Always good to have an authority around who can pinpoint where all the pertinent details are. |
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steelmirror
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My personal opinion is that was the messiest and least satisfying conclusion episode of any arc in the Railgun anime. This arc as a whole was pretty good, above average in my opinion overall. But while several other arcs have been worse, some of them feeling like an active waste of my time on rewatch, the series has typically delivered strong final episodes that get me pumped up and smiling even if they came after an arc of faffing about or clearly filler characters doing filler things.
This arc as crammed full of what I assume are important characters from Index or whatever (not an Index fan), and the actual arc was pretty good! And then this last episode. This train wreck of an episode. The pacing was awful, the end felt like a disconnected asspull. I don't have any sort of feeling that any characters grew in the course of these events, no personal issues were grappled with or demons confronted. Some stuff happened, a bad guy was bad, Misaki got a chance to show off, and then the franchise's resident potato-kun sprouted dragons from his arms to fix everything. Sure. The last episode (12) felt like a far better climactic experience than this one, as at least Misaki and Kuroko's fights had some personal stakes, comprehensible strategy, and a payoff that worked with what the arc had been setting up in prior episodes. They weren't A tier Railgun material, but they worked on a basic writing level and it was cool to see Kuroko as a capable combatant in her own right and not Misaka's appendage. This episode just felt like the author had reached his word count and wanted to wrap things up in time for his deadline. |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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See, but since I'm also up to date with the novels, that's all the more reason why i disagree with you. Saying Touma and Mikoto's relationship develops to a point where they cover each emotionally is a bit much spoiler[Touma has learned to trust Mikoto as a reliable ally, but that doesn't all of a sudden translate to their relationship having evolved into anything indicating legitimate interpersonal depth, sensitivity, emotional vulnerability or reciprocity for each other's emotional needs. Mikoto often thinks about how she can walk alongside Touma rather than letting him fight battles on his own and aims to be a supportive pillar for him in NT, but a lot the emotional investment in this relationship comes from her. Again, while Touma learns to rely on her more than he did in OT, it's not like his thoughts about her evolve in a similar way or that his dynamic with her changes beyond just that. Mikoto may cherish the things Touma has done for her, with most of her actions being her wanting to support him by any means necessary, but again, all of it is mostly sterile with nothing significant developing in their dynamic beyond Touma continuing to uphold his promise Touma to protect Mikoto......as he would anyone who he had set his mind to protect. In short, most of their interaction in new testament has not been on such a emotional level or developed their relationship with great enough emotional insight to warrant the claim that they emotionally cover one another]. You're absolutely right that you are entitled to your opinion on this, i just don't think there's enough legitimately poignant, well articulated, emotionally intriguing, concrete,comprehensive, and indubitable empirical support for claim (or at least that the claim you're making isn't explored with enough emotional depth by Kamachi's writing to make that claim feel like it has legitimate consequences on the interpersonal dynamics between Touma and Mikoto) "You’re telling me this guy who’s cursed with bad luck and conditioned to not expect good things to happen to him is suddenly supposed to go: “Oh hey, maybe that violent girl who keeps firing friggin lightning spears at me actually has a crush on me!” To. Hell. With. That. This is all on Misaka for not making her romantic feelings clear." Having an explanation for why Touma behaves densely doesn't take away from the fact that he still embodies that trope. There are plenty of dense male protagonist in which we can make tons of in-narrative excuses for why they wouldn't be able to pick up on a woman having affection for them. That's kind of the point really: that there will always be some seemingly justifiable reason why a character doesn't recognize the plethora of woman who love him even though on a meta level, this is done simply to push the harem antics that the series wants to indulge in. The main conceit of all this preliminary setup is so the author can abuse the trope; nothing elegant about the reasoning beyond this whatsoever. There's a difference between the author writing a character in a particular fashion to flesh out them out in an interesting way and designing one to purposefully justify a trope or archetype; Touma's persona and hardships fall hard into the latter To aru majutsu no Index may not be a harem series through and through, but that doesn't mean it can't or doesn't encapsulate those tired harem traits of old. Your explanation for Touma's outlook on his love life would be valid in absolving him of the negative implications of the dense protag label if his personality trait directly played any kind of meaningful role in his interactions with the cast or if there was any intent from the narrative in exploring this particular outlook of his in an insightful (or at least consequential) way.....but there isn't; and that's because the lack of self-confidence pertaining to his luck (at least in this part of his life) or the woes of Touma's devil may cry life-style is really just gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less. No substance is mined from this, and that's how you can usually discern whether the in-world character excuse even matters in the first place. Last edited by we love lain on Mon May 18, 2020 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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