Forum - View topicRe:Zero -Starting Life in Another World- (TV) (all seasons).
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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A witch fight is exactly what is needed. What happens when we pit Greed against Envy?
Feels like we are usually in for surprises, so I wonder if we will be surprised by Satella. Thoughts so far are an assumption that the witch communicated to the archbishops, but she also did not care about Petelgeuse at all. So, how involved is she with the cult, and in the deaths of the other witches. Do we know if she killed them? Typhon at least does not seem afraid. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11339 |
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Actually, we were thinking about it, way back in the Before Times of the first season. 
I also had some wild theories on the topic back then (spoiler text isn't actually a spoiler). So I really enjoyed seeing the possibility that the timelines go on as Roswaal indicated (though we still don't know for sure that's so - what Subaru saw could be Echidna's doing like the first test), and that everyone could be "new" people in the alternate timeline as I'd sort of speculated (I was so close...and so far off). Speaking of Roswaal, for no reason in particular I find it interesting that he comes clean in this arc in more ways than one. Up to now, except for when he was naked in the bath with Subaru, we've always seen him in his joker (trickster) makeup, but here, his face has been totally au naturel. Also, I finally realized that the earring I'd taken to be some sort of heart shape is actually the outline of Echidna's butterfly wing. |
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ACｘS
 Posts: 876 |
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S2 13 / 38:
Damn, I didn't get my witch slugfest. Fine. If there's anything I can reaffirm in the first half of the episode, it's this: Subaru's lack of self-worth runs deep. Really really deep. If you think his passing of the first trial—the one where he met his parents and delved on repentance—was the end of his problems, then you've learned you're dead wrong. Subaru is bent on saving everyone, even at the expense of sacrificing himself. In short, selflessness. But because of the Return by Death, he's been able to saving everyone (so far). But in turn, it's costing his sanity. But let me be clear: selflessness is altruism, which in itself is a noble virtue. But here's where the distinction is important: his selflessness is rooted to his lack of self-worth. "I'll save everyone, even if I have to die and suffer in the process. No one cares about me, anyway; nobody loses in the end. I'll fix everything on my own." is basically Subaru's motto. Hence, even if his action of saving everyone at his own expense is noble, his motive isn't. And because of the Return by Death, the expense is not his own life; it's his sanity. This bring to my next talking point: the witches. I said before that the witches don't have good intentions. They don't. But it's becoming too clear that they're purely driven by self-interest (come to think of it, self-interest has become a core theme in character development in this show). Echidna has basically did us a favor of laying out what happened: 1) Typhon and Sekhmet respected Subaru's wishes → Typhon has always been interested in understanding people's moral compass, and Sekhmet (I think) bears the "whatever happens, happens" code. Maybe something like "live and let live"? Not sure yet. 2) Minerva revived Subaru → Minerva is for purity of the heart, so she can't accept Subaru's decision to kill himself, even if she has to impose her values on him. 3) Carmilla used Faceless Bride on Subaru → Carmilla is for love and reciprocity, so she can't bear to see Subaru not recognize Rem's love for him. 4) Echidna's interaction with Subaru all this time → Echidna is all for knowledge. Subaru has knowledge that Echidna wants. To get her hands on this knowledge, she has to keep Subaru alive. Simple as that. *the only odd one is Daphne, and so far she's just neutral: neither for nor against Subaru's death All these witches have different motives, but coincidentally they want the same outcome: Subaru must live. A variation of "we all want the same thing", albeit for different intentions. Strange how their goals align almost perfectly. And the most important witch who wants the same outcome is... 5) Satella puts Subaru through Return by Death → here's the big revelation: Return by Death isn't a curse. It's a gift. Satella/Emilia gifted Subaru the Return by Death so that he can save everyone (including himself, ideally). But because of his lack of self-worth, Subaru has been suffering in the process (so of course, Subaru would treat it as a curse), but Satella never intended that. Subaru also accepts his own death as a solution to save everyone for another reason: he never had to witness the consequence of his death. "I died, but hey, my timeline is reset and I can fix my mistakes". But no, people still suffered in the failed timelines, so no, getting himself killed is not the answer. Now that he's aware of it, he can take the step forward. And Satella/Emilia's other intention? She wants Subaru to kill her, because she's become corrupted as Satella. Of course, Subaru won't let that happen. But now the stakes are higher. Subaru is bent on saving everyone including himself and his sanity, and he won't accept Echidna's offer. In other words, it sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. No trade-offs or sacrifices. That's a tall order. Remember the central theme of Fullmetal Alchemist? Law of Equivalent Exchange: something cannot be created from nothing, and so in order to obtain something, something else of equal value must be lost. Echidna feels the sting a little, so she ditches Subaru's qualification. B*tch's a b*tch. Now it comes down to Roswaal. Ah yes, Mr. Batsh*t Insane. Subaru doesn't have to hide anything from him anymore; the cat's out of the bag already. We learned from the last episode that to achieve his "dearest wish", Roswaal will do anything. Anything. Even if it means throwing his servants under the bus, or getting himself killed and reset the timeline. Now we learn his thinking process, and like Echidna, he did us a favor by laying it all out: 1) Even if there's no Emilia, there's life. 2) When there's life, there's future. 3) When there's future, there's hope. 4) When there's hope, there's possibility. 5) There's possibility, everyone can be saved. See how impeccably logical his train of thought is? That's because it is: it's logically flawless. An AI machine would be proud to see this. But there's the thing: logics is devoid of ethics and everything about humanity. Logics doesn't care about how to get from point A to point B; if you get the job done, it's logically sound. Do you have to kill Emilia in order to save everyone? So be it. So there you have it: your perfect psychopath (see how Roswaal said he wants Subaru to be "perfected"?). Think about it: he's the polar opposite, and thus, the perfect antagonist to Subaru. If Subaru won't sacrifice anything to save everyone, Roswaal will gladly sacrifice everything to save everyone. If Subaru is Batman, then Roswaal's the Joker. Now everything is falling into place. Roswaal wants Subaru to follow his footsteps by throwing everything away to achieve his goal, by any means necessary. Even if he has to send assassins to kill everyone. See how this compare this to Joker constantly trying to drive Batman over the edge? More so when Roswaal said he can never hate Subaru despite their conflicting views (Joker: "I can never hate Batman; he's too entertaining), and how Subaru vows he will never be like Roswaal (Batman: "I'll never be like you."). Too disturbingly similar. Oh, Subaru pleads for leniency because he ditched Echidna's offer and now the situation is rigged against his favor? Even better, now Roswaal can drive him further into the corner and mold him after himself. Uncanny how he knows Echidna and her motives; it's almost as though he's her emissary. The only question now is, what the hell did Roswaal see 400 years ago that made him so single-minded (and batsh*t insane)? This show never fails to wow me. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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"So, now that you're a little coherent and able to explain what you want from me, can you explain why you're obsessed with me? You seem to have some kind of recollection or feeling of debt with me, so how about filling me in?" is a question someone might have asked Satella in Subaru's position. But not Subaru.
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ACｘS
Posts: 876 |
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Benefit of doubt: Subaru has a lot going on in his head. These days, I have to recognize that. Dude is getting a daily dose of mindf**k every time, so I should be surprised if he can think straight for most parts.
Yes, I was mad that he was about to make a Faustian bargain with Echidna previously. And yes, I was mad that he's too fixated with Emilia and the other female characters around him (yeah, I'm tempted to scream "simp" but I don't wanna go there). But as a spectator (and bystander), I have to admit: I think up of the important questions to ask only in hindsight. Last edited by ACｘS on Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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I feel like "he has a lot going on" has been doing a whole lot of work lately to try to convince folks that Subaru isn't a complete idiot. These are literally the first questions I think of asking when I watch the show. He seemed like he had things basically together while going through thanking folks, but nope, too much going on, I guess.
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ACｘS
Posts: 876 |
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I will acknowledge that Subaru isn't the sharpest person. It's too clear that he can be emotionally affected by his surroundings, so much that he can't step back and think clearly.
Pit him against someone like Roswaal—a cerebral mastermind who doesn't care about anyone dying—and his decision not to ask for help from any of the witches, and you can tell: the odds are clearly stacked against him. There's a lot of hell waiting ahead of him, still. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I freaking called it. Roswaal is totally broken, kind of wonder if his clown thing is a way to put up a happy face. Also sounds like he met Echidna 400 years ago, so wonder if he has his own gift from Echidna that kept him going all this time, like Subaru's return by death, or Petelgeuse's body hopping. Like the immortality that Echidna was working on. Also, not totally surprised by how Satella was acting. I did some mental reviewing in the series discussion thread to look at the personalities of the different witches, which is their sin, the corresponding virtue and an element that can link the two: Echidna: Greed, Charity, Knowledge (knowledge is an infinite resource that can be both taken greedily and given charitably) Typhon: Pride, Humility, righteous (she judges people by how righteous they feel that they are, really praising over pride in ones own humility) Minerva: Wrath. Patience, justice (she has a strong sense of justice that she wields with a wrath like level, but absolute patience that she absolutely heals instead of harms) Daphne: Gluttony, Abstinence, and a wishing of fulfillment for all (eternally hungry while abstinently restrained, with creations to fill stomachs with natures that would make them fulfilling for that purpose in not too easily) Carmilla: Lust, Chastity, Love (for lust she sure is dressed chastely, and I think kind of becomes a black hole of love where she unwittingly has people lust for over her as they would not lay a finger and she would rather them feel it genuinely) Sekhmet: Sloth, Diligence, Peace (mostly a guess, but considering she is both slothful and diligent, peace being her main drive seemed likely, such that she would only act out wanting peace, which she would do so diligently. Perhaps telling in how she stopped Minerva trying to heal Subaru, also presumably through her unseen hands. Unseen hands might itself be fitting, not appearing to need to lift a finger, while also diligently having many hands in action that few can see.) So my theory was that Satella would be= Envy, Kindness and my guess was appreciative of others. That her envy would manifest in total kindness, that she would think that Subaru is a great person and want only kindness towards him. Being appreciative of his character would bridge both being envy and kindness. And if this episode was representative of her character, outside of moments of heart crushing obsession, I would like to think it fits. Apparently Satella wishes for the sweet release of death herself, presumably she was sealed because her own return by death would have prevented from being able to kill her. She probably became an enemy of the world for her own sense of envious kindness to everyone. Echidna just had to pull a dick move in withdrawing her trial invitation. Wondering whether Subaru gets will get it back if he would happen to die and go back to before he entered the witch's tea party again. But Subaru is following the advice to not treat himself too callously in abusing return by death at the cost of his mental wellbeing. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23752 |
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Yeah, there's about as much chance of Subaru asking an intelligent, relevant question as there is of him not sobbing three times an episode or a female character not supporting him. Damn, that must be one natty tracksuit because the chicks seem to really dig him for some unaccountable reason. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 876 |
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Wonderful. Roswaal claimed to see something 400 years ago, which wouldn't make freaking sense because it's 400 years ago. This does go in line with the whole immortality train: Petelgeuse's body hopping (courtesy of Sekhmet), Subaru's Return by Death (courtesy of Satella), Roswaal's uhh... immortality-something (courtesy of Echidna). That's so splendid! Subaru probably didn't pick up Roswaal's cryptic message, because he was too mindf**ked by Roswaal calling a hit on the people at the mansion. He always end up having to learn it the hard way, even when clues are all over the place. Oh well. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 876 |
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S2 14 / 39:
Aaaaaand we're back! And it's taking it easy for now. Whew, that's exactly how I wanted this season to start. Even if the last season was only over three months ago, Re:Zero is one of those info-ridden titles that needs a lot of focus on understanding WTF is going on. Info-dumping is the last thing I want in the first episode after a one-season break. To bring things up to speed, Otto reminded Subaru just how helpless he is by wanting to rescue everyone all by himself. Of course, on top of wanting to look cool―Otto isn't wrong with that―Subaru also knows how difficult it is to relying on anyone when barely nobody knows what's really going on. But Subaru already realised from a previous timeline that not everyone is out to get him; Otto's at least one person to prove Subaru's long-grown cynicism wrong. Let's see how Subaru & Otto plans to solve this predicament. Nothing revealing how much about his bet with Roswaal. We know he's batshit insane, even if he's perfectly rational (arguably). Essentially Subaru's making a bet with him that he can save everyone without bearing any costs. Even Roswaal thinks that's ridiculous, but that's how bets work: you lose, you pay the price. Not sure if Subaru can win this time, but as we can see, Subaru's making more progress by exploring stuff he never thought of before, starting with... ...Garfiel's past. Truth be told, it's never been revealed what the story is between him, Frederica and the sanctuary. Their mother left the village and never came back. Contrary to what Subaru thought, Garfiel isn't resentful about it; her leaving makes him all the more protective of the village (and hostile towards the outside world). That makes perfect sense: rather than antagonizing his mother, he antagonizes the outside world for taking her away from her. Protecting the village so that one day she can come back to it fully intact―which is what I think is happening―seems wholly understandable. Speaking of protecting, it's also the one thing that's been keeping Emilia from facing the truth. The only way for her to pass the trials is to face the truth, and that means knowing her past. Which involves remembering the past. Which involves breaking the seal suppressing her memories of her past. Which involves Puck breaking the contract and essentially dying. Not exactly sure what happened to her in the past, but it seemed to involve her mother—see how her story parallels with Garfiel's?—sacrificing herself and the family to protect Emilia against... what exactly? And how is Roswaal exactly involved in this by making a deal to free her family? We'll eventually find out. If you're wondering what Garfiel noticed, it's that the cups are different. More specifically, the cup he saw was different from the one he was using when he spoke with Ryuzu Shima. Suspicion: someone spoke to Shima after Garfiel left, and he has every reason to think it's Subaru. Chances are, he's right; Subaru spoke with Ryuzu Shima about something. Not sure what exactly. A few things that left me wondering: why is Ryuzu Shima the only one able to defect from her duties? Something different about her compared to the other Ryuzus? Whew, see what I mean about how intensive Re:Zero episodes can be? |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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It was a 28 minute long episode too, without any opening or closing. Subaru talked to Otto, made a bet with Roswaal, had a small talk with Ram, had a conversation with Puck, tried to get Emilia be able to open up, talked to the village clones, and so on. It had been a while since we had seen Puck, and that seemed destined to be his end, him leaving Emilia with her returned memories, which are apparently sad. Otto is taking on Garfiel, I wonder if that little guy has any idea how dangerous grumpy cat could be to him.
Whatever Emilia's history is. I have wondered if we will get some info of what her connection may be to Satella, since we still don't know. |
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Showsni
 Posts: 641 |
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In the webnovel, Subaru does some quick maths during his talk with Emilia.
She was 7 when she was frozen in the forest. The forest was frozen 100 years ago. The freezing froze her mental state, but not her physcial body - she continued growing whilst trapped in the ice. Emilia woke up and met Puck 7 years ago. Conclusion: Emilia is 107 years old, actually and physically. Half elves age much slower than humans, so she appears 18 years old to a human's eyes. Mentally, though, she is only 14 years old. This explains why she sometimes seems a bit childish - mentally, she's the same age as Felt. And why she uses outdated expressions in her speech - her language is from a time over a hundred years ago. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Season 2, episode 15 (Episode 40)
Well, that was a pretty amazing episode. Another long episode. First half was an Otto centric one, learning about his past, his isolation, and his own hope to feel like he belongs. Maybe a little bit of seeing himself in Subaru. Second half is Subaru confronting Emilia. Took me way too long to realise that Subaru was essentially doing his own version of the speech that Rem did to him when he was at his lowest. Pretty much just telling her that he believes in her, that he loves her, and that is with acknowledgment of her weaknesses and regardless of what happens he will unconditionally still love her. There was the slight question of whether those feelings are toxic, like what happened in the first season, Emilia saying that she did not ask Subaru to hurt himself for her sake, but I think he managed to put it across his feelings, sort of a Kamina moment. The best part was probably when Emilia was talking about herself as she sees herself as pathetic, and you could just feel this idea of Subaru recognising how Rem must have felt when he said that to her. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23752 |
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I really do have a hate/like relationship with this show. There is stuff I like but there is a lot that drives me batty. This last episode is an example of what drives me batty. I am so primed for some actual story advancement but instead we get Otto's backstory (who cares?) and yet another long, repetitive two person convo. Subaru loves Emilia? Really, no shit. Fascinating. It seems we've been stuck in this arc forever. Is anything non-repetitive actually going to happen?
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