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Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11331
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:12 pm
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| Key wrote: | | The tower is the cap for the Dungeon, as well as serving a variety of functions - administrative, commerce, meeting spaces (Denatus is held on one level), and even housing (Freya has what basically amounts to the penthouse on the top). |
Ok, I'll accept that. Although as shown in that last shot, that's a whole lot more square footage than could conceivably be needed or used for all those functions put together, and Freya would need a telescope to see any details of the city below if she were living at the top.  Seriously, it pierces the cloud cover, which would be at least five thousand feet or more above, and keeps on going.
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Amuro1X
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:14 pm
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| Key wrote: | | The exact circumstances under which Argonaut can be used are not much better-defined in the novels, either. |
Actually, it's in the description of the skill in the status pages. It's an active trigger, which means Bell can choose when it activates. He activates it by visualizing a hero or having heroic thoughts. The first time he used it after leveling up, it happened unconciously, not because he was in trouble, but because he was really feeling himself after leveling. This is spoilers for Vol12 so I'll tag it, but basically Bell starts experimenting with Argonaut and incorporates it into his fighting style. He learns that he can charge specific parts of his body, like his feet for a sudden speed boost or his weapon. This results in him combing Argonaut, Firebolt, and the unique properties of the Hestia Knife to create his very own finishing move, Argo Vesta. It's hype as hell.
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Amuro1X
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:21 pm
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| Gina Szanboti wrote: |
| Key wrote: | | The tower is the cap for the Dungeon, as well as serving a variety of functions - administrative, commerce, meeting spaces (Denatus is held on one level), and even housing (Freya has what basically amounts to the penthouse on the top). |
Ok, I'll accept that. Although as shown in that last shot, that's a whole lot more square footage than could conceivably be needed or used for all those functions put together, and Freya would need a telescope to see any details of the city below if she were living at the top. Seriously, it pierces the cloud cover, which would be at least five thousand feet or more above, and keeps on going. |
I take the ridiculous height shown there to be artistic liberty, lol.
By the way, speaking of Freya needing a telescope, remember she's a goddess, so she's used to looking at mortals from the heavens, haha. But seriously, and this might be considered a spoiler since it's from the books, but Freya can see the quality and color of souls. That's what interests her about mortals, so she's really more observing Bell's soul than she is his physical feats.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1543
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:48 pm
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| FilthyCasual wrote: | | The anime shows like 10% of how injured Bell is at any given point. |
And what the anime shows is what I'm judging.
Dix kickboxes him for a while and standing up takes all his strength. Asterius uses him as a siege weapon and he has the energy to come back for more.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4374
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:44 am
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| Yuvelir wrote: | | How is Bell even alive and standing? Every hit that Asterius landed sounded like an explosion and either sent him flying or going through walls ala DBZ. And he landed quite a few of those.
The end of the arc being Bell being frustrated at losing a fight felt weird, considering the stakes have been far far FAR more important than the ego matter of being stronger or weaker. I'm glad Asterius made it alive though.
As for Hermes, things might have gone off-script but much as he whined and complained he still got the outcome he wished for: the xenos branded as regular dangerous monsters and Bell the hero protecting people from them (although I guess he didn't get enough credit for his liking).
I bet Hestia Familia will more or less forgive him in the mid term but I can't, he really tried to get several of their friends killed and doomed Wiene and her people to live as marked hunts in the dungeon, being further away from their goal than they started, as far as the general public is concerned. But I suppose moving two members of Loki Familia will account for something. |
and its because of that, most people think he's the next god in line to be sent back to heaven!
but if i had any say in it, he and asfi would be given a fate far worse than death. aka if possible a descendant of medusa turning them into stone!
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GhostD
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 999
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:24 am
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| Gina Szanboti wrote: | Ok, I'll accept that. Although as shown in that last shot, that's a whole lot more square footage than could conceivably be needed or used for all those functions put together, and Freya would need a telescope to see any details of the city below if she were living at the top. Seriously, it pierces the cloud cover, which would be at least five thousand feet or more above, and keeps on going. |
Its called the Tower of Babel. And for good reason
| Key wrote: | | I'm really curious as to where you got this detail, as I have not seen this spelled out anywhere. (And I've read the novels up through 15.) |
Yeah it wasn't stated to be one min per level as Bell's Argonaut charge has always been 3 mins ever since he got the skill at level 2 up until this fight.
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Animegomaniac
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4074
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:10 am
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| Yuvelir wrote: | |
As for Hermes, things might have gone off-script but much as he whined and complained he still got the outcome he wished for: the xenos branded as regular dangerous monsters and Bell the hero protecting people from them (although I guess he didn't get enough credit for his liking).
I bet Hestia Familia will more or less forgive him in the mid term but I can't, he really tried to get several of their friends killed and doomed Wiene and her people to live as marked hunts in the dungeon, being further away from their goal than they started, as far as the general public is concerned. But I suppose moving two members of Loki Familia will account for something. |
Hermes choose the least human monsters not because of his own beliefs but because of what he thinks about people. I don't know anything about the books but what I gathered from the anime, it's more like Hermes thinks Bell can't reach ascension while trying to be savior for a subgroup that the majority consider monsters.
Hermes could have killed them all then and there. Kill them off while invisible. He could have killed off just a few but didn't do that either. He choose the four most fearsome looking to die fighting Bell because it's more about optics than anything. Oh? Oh!
It's a God playing politics rather than a politcian playing God?! I like that. I don't know if the books explore it more but seeing how Hermes thought the Xenos stood in the way of his own mission regarding Bell and only deciding that the more human ones should go back underground rather than all of them die....
I do feel getting drop kicked by Hestia was the limit of comeuppance he deserved.
The previous episode set up: You're all in my way, you all must die."
This episode's resolution: I need you guys to go away now because ugh, monsters, but before that, I need four of you to die fighting Bell in order to improve his standing among the riffraff.
Hermes didn't kill them all because he's a Trickster but he also didn't help them at all because he's a Trickster. Lesson for Hestia's familia: Don't rely on the wildcard.
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GhostD
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 999
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:20 am
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| Animegomaniac wrote: | | Hermes choose the least human monsters not because of his own beliefs but because of what he thinks about people. I don't know anything about the books but what I gathered from the anime, it's more like Hermes thinks Bell can't reach ascension while trying to be savior for a subgroup that the majority consider monsters.
Hermes could have killed them all then and there. Kill them off while invisible. He could have killed off just a few but didn't do that either. He choose the four most fearsome looking to die fighting Bell because it's more about optics than anything. Oh? Oh!
It's a God playing politics rather than a politcian playing God?! I like that. I don't know if the books explore it more but seeing how Hermes thought the Xenos stood in the way of his own mission regarding Bell and only deciding that the more human ones should go back underground rather than all of them die....
I do feel getting drop kicked by Hestia was the limit of comeuppance he deserved.
The previous episode set up: You're all in my way, you all must die."
This episode's resolution: I need you guys to go away now because ugh, monsters, but before that, I need four of you to die fighting Bell in order to improve his standing among the riffraff.
Hermes didn't kill them all because he's a Trickster but he also didn't help them at all because he's a Trickster. Lesson for Hestia's familia: Don't rely on the wildcard. |
Hermes didn't 'choose' anyone rather he told them to choose among themselves. It was Gros who willingly volunteered. It wasn't explained in the anime but Gros' reason for volunteering was that among the 3 leaders of the Xenos he was the one who used to hate humans and because he knew that Bell would hesitate to fight Lyd and Ray. The other Xenos most likely volunteered along with Gros.
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Joryn
Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:24 am
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Only thing I was a little disappointed about, and it's really just a minor issue, but I wasn't fond of what they did at the end. In the LN, both the main and Sword Oratorio, Ais is not happy about what happened and distanced herself from Bell, and Asterius basically takes over as the driving force behind Bell wanting to get stronger.
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Animegomaniac
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4074
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:39 pm
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| GhostD wrote: | |
Hermes didn't 'choose' anyone rather he told them to choose among themselves. It was Gros who willingly volunteered. It wasn't explained in the anime but Gros' reason for volunteering was that among the 3 leaders of the Xenos he was the one who used to hate humans and because he knew that Bell would hesitate to fight Lyd and Ray. The other Xenos most likely volunteered along with Gros. |
Yeah, Tricksters do that sort of thing so just keep telling yourself they weren't manipulated and it was all done of their own free will. If Gros not being killed by Bell was the only that didn't go according to Hermes' plan...
Look, if a conversation starts with a threat but it's quickly followed by a "but" second scenario then there really was no threat at all and the second scenario was what the guy was after all along. And in order to get the kind of volunteers you want to die, well... it depends on the kind of threat you give.
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FilthyCasual
Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2184
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:29 pm
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| GhostD wrote: | | Yeah it wasn't stated to be one min per level as Bell's Argonaut charge has always been 3 mins ever since he got the skill at level 2 up until this fight. |
Volume 12 states that Argonaut's 3 minute limit increased to 4 after he hit Level 4. There's no mention of how it scales per Level, though.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1543
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:04 pm
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| Animegomaniac wrote: | | Yeah, Tricksters do that sort of thing so just keep telling yourself they weren't manipulated and it was all done of their own free will. If Gros not being killed by Bell was the only that didn't go according to Hermes' plan...
Look, if a conversation starts with a threat but it's quickly followed by a "but" second scenario then there really was no threat at all and the second scenario was what the guy was after all along. And in order to get the kind of volunteers you want to die, well... it depends on the kind of threat you give. |
You don't need to manipulate every single detail to be manipulative.
He didn't coax Gros and the other three to be the sacrifices... because it was ultimately inconsequential. Gros or Lyd, the bee or the rabbit. As long as he had enough xenos to make a scene and die at the hands of Bell, he was fine with it.
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GhostD
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 999
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 am
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| FilthyCasual wrote: |
| GhostD wrote: | | Yeah it wasn't stated to be one min per level as Bell's Argonaut charge has always been 3 mins ever since he got the skill at level 2 up until this fight. |
Volume 12 states that Argonaut's 3 minute limit increased to 4 after he hit Level 4. There's no mention of how it scales per Level, though. |
It doesn't scale per level. I refer you back to the climax of vol 5 when Bell finished off the Black Goliath with Argonaut. It states that "Three minutes. That’s how long it currently took Bell to fully charge Argonaut." meaning that Argonaut's max charge was 3 mins even back when Bell first got it. Dont forget that that fight took place a few days to a week after became level 2.
| Animegomaniac wrote: | | Yeah, Tricksters do that sort of thing so just keep telling yourself they weren't manipulated and it was all done of their own free will. If Gros not being killed by Bell was the only that didn't go according to Hermes' plan...
Look, if a conversation starts with a threat but it's quickly followed by a "but" second scenario then there really was no threat at all and the second scenario was what the guy was after all along. And in order to get the kind of volunteers you want to die, well... it depends on the kind of threat you give. |
Im aware that Hermes manipulated them. To be precise he guilt-tripped them into doing it. Another thing that was skipped in the anime is the other thing Hermes said to them when explaining his motives. That the Xenos were just going to back to Dungeon with a simple word of thanks after everything Bell did and sacrificed for them. He even compared the Xenos to the gods who he claimed weren't that insincere despite how fickle they can be.
When I said he didn't 'choose' those 4 I meant it in a literal sense. I never said he wasn't using them to fulfill his own personal goal. Anyone whos read the LN can see whats happening.
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FilthyCasual
Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2184
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:15 pm
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| GhostD wrote: | | It doesn't scale per level |
I explicitly said it wasn't stated to scale directly to level. Whether his limit goes up again at Level 5 or 6 is yet to be seen.
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GhostD
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 999
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:24 pm
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| FilthyCasual wrote: |
| GhostD wrote: | | It doesn't scale per level |
I explicitly said it wasn't stated to scale directly to level. Whether his limit goes up again at Level 5 or 6 is yet to be seen. |
I know you did. I was simply expanding on it with a reference
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