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REVIEW: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha DVD


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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Brians9824 wrote:
Well his quote is
Quote:
The series may begin as a jewel-gathering magical-girl romp, but before the end it delves into science-fiction, military adventure, mecha action, and ultimately dark drama.


In the context he's using he's classifying the show itself, and not the combat. It might just be poor wording on his part but it doesn't even come close to saying the battles are mecha styled.

That's really a description of the show genre and not of the fighting style.


I think "mecha action" can be interpreted either way. There are a few giant robot things that pop up briefly at the end, so I suppose he could have been referring to that but I think he could have just as easily been referring to some of the stylistic elements of the action.
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Nina.Wolken



Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:02 pm Reply with quote
Joichiro Nishi wrote:
Finally a good ANN's review, usually their reviews are lame.


For me, this one was the worst ever.

Seriously, the one who wrote that is so biased in is judgement, that it doesn't even worth it to spend 5 minutes reading his critic, aside if you want to laugh for a bit.

I really enjoyed MSLN when I watched it for the first time 2 years ago, and since then, I enjoy all the universe of the serie (unfortunatly, StS is under the 2 previous seasons u.u") and I don't understand how someone could reduce it at just a bad fan-service over cliché show =_='.
The one who wrote this article has a serious problem if he can't see what is behind the fact that there is indeed two young teenagers for the lead of the show : do you often see any magical-girl including fighting of such level? character with such gackground (and class) as Fate? angst taking over cheesy begining?

This show is much more elaborated than Carl wants everybody to believe it is and I am glad I bought the DVD (even if I am european ^^").
And since it has already been discussed, I won't say too much, but for those who don't know about the show, you should check the opening song and Take a Shot (insert song) both performed by Nana Mizuki, who is one of the main character's VA : ).
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omoikane



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Miitan wrote:
Overall I believe we have a show that would probably have been rated higher, despite it's faults, had it not been moe.


I agree. Personally, often times the ads running on the ANN site is worse than most of his complaints that you see in Nanoha. Maybe not knowing the exact age of some of the characters featured in the ad helps.

But then again, when you bash the head in of a very popular show among a vocal minority, that's how you generate controversy, page impressions, and clicks without fear of backlash.

That said I thought the review was fine in that a lot of the important details were picked out for view. Too bad we have to sift through the author's insecure lolicon bias to get to them. I guess that's just the seasoning.
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grgspunk



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But then again, when you bash the head in of a very popular show among a vocal minority, that's how you generate controversy, page impressions, and clicks without fear of backlash.


Bingo.
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omoikane



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Labbes wrote:
Come on, the music was generic, the OP, the BGM and the ED as well. That's why it gets a C.

He should've said that in the review so someone can quote it and saying he panned an Oricon-charting anime theme song as generic!

But he didn't say a bleep about the music at all. Ah well.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:18 pm Reply with quote
grgspunk wrote:
Quote:
But then again, when you bash the head in of a very popular show among a vocal minority, that's how you generate controversy, page impressions, and clicks without fear of backlash.


Bingo.


I was JUST gonna say that this is most likely a cheap way to get more views.
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Miitan



Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Gensokyo, UK
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:23 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
grgspunk wrote:
Quote:
But then again, when you bash the head in of a very popular show among a vocal minority, that's how you generate controversy, page impressions, and clicks without fear of backlash.


Bingo.


I was JUST gonna say that this is most likely a cheap way to get more views.


Maybe they can have the "OMG POPULAR SHOW CONTROVERSY REVIEW!" on the front page and then maybe a more subjective review in the links at the bottom.

That way everyone can be happy. Cool
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Labbes



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 890
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:24 pm Reply with quote
omoikane wrote:
Labbes wrote:
Come on, the music was generic, the OP, the BGM and the ED as well. That's why it gets a C.

He should've said that in the review so someone can quote it and saying he panned an Oricon-charting anime theme song as generic!

But he didn't say a bleep about the music at all. Ah well.


If he had said "The music is plain generic" I bet the same people would have complained about that being not precise enough.
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:29 pm Reply with quote
grgspunk wrote:

To assume that everyone who actually likes moe will jump for the show is a case of generalizing. There are plenty of people who have an interest in moe that have found certain moe shows to be disappointing and not worth their purchase. What, you think they don't have limited budgets or prefer to make informed decisions too? There could be such thing as a moe "fan" reviewer is capable of seeing what may or may not interest fans and non-fans alike: It's just a matter of deciding whether he's capable of writing a professional review and can look at a title with a more critical eye. However, if a reviewer doesn't have at least some sort of interest in what a title has to offer, then he's essentially wasting his time and risks writing off the genre it belongs to as a flaw in his review or make flaws sound like they're worse than they actually are.


The person I was responding to sounded like he assumed the show would've gotten a higher rating if the reviewer was a moe fan, so I was responding in kind. As far as I know, too, loli =\= moe, so I didn't even *know* this show was considered "moe" until people started complaining that the reviewer was biased because it was moe on the forums. If I didn't even realize reading the review that the show was moe, then how does it equal into a "this is moe so the show sucks" sort of review?

It's not that I think moe fans don't want to make informed choices, but how does this keep them from doing that? Can't they ask their other friends with similar tastes? Can't they look at the good things Carl said about the show and decide if they'd like it? I mean, you're all saying that people might decide to not try out this show because of this one review, but how would a moe fan come to that conclusion? Have you seen a single person post here saying they won't watch this show even though they like moe? No, the only ones that have said that are the ones that don't like moe and magical girl shows. So big deal. Even if Carl liked that sort of show, how would that convince those people to watch it?

ANN isn't the only review site out there. If someone wants a second opinion, they can go find it. They can even easily go to the anime form and make a topic about this anime asking people that like moe magical girl shows what they think.

I personally think that the idea that this site has an agenda because the reviewers don't have the same tastes as you as ridiculous. I've seen high ratings given to shows like Kanon and Air here on ANN. There's people like you that are registered to the forum that like moe--hopefully, I'm assuming, for doing more than just complaining every time a reviewer doesn't agree with your point of view. The idea that ANN is some massive conspiracy to undermine the shows you like is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever read a review, news article, or column on this site that has made me go "oh, ew, everything in this one genre must suck". In fact, it convinced me to put Kanon and Air on my "want to watch" list on anime-planet.

No, in fact, the only thing I've ever seen on this site that's made me not want to watch moe? The fans that come here in legions acting like they're some sort of oppressed minority on par with women not being allowed to vote. I've only seen maybe one or two short comments on why people should watch Nanoha. Most of you aren't doing that. Instead, you're wasting your energy saying "Carl should be fired" or "ANN has an agenda!" instead of saying WHY you like the show. So far, all I've gotten is that you don't think the whipping scene is fanservice. Okay, fine, that's a great, valid point. Anything else? Why do you like the show? It's moe? And...it has beams? Is that all?

You're not convincing people that the show is good, you're convincing people your section of the fandom is whiny and entitled. It's hurting, not helping. If you really feel that this show is this great, stand up and tell us why.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:38 pm Reply with quote
The paranoid conspiracy stuff is funny, guys, but it is getting old considering a handful of you trot out the "ann secret pageviews conspiracy' theories every time we run a review that winds up being 'controversial' among the show's fans. We don't secretly conspire to generate pageviews by purposefully running flamebait reviews; Carl decided he wanted to see this show, which I can understand given how tremendously popular the series is with a certain segment of the fandom. He didn't like what he saw as a bold-faced exercise in pandering, the likes of which he'd never seen before. His review reflects that.

Even if we were doing something like that, I would've stopped the practice years ago because the headache of sifting through 10+ pages of the usual 'ann sux reviews biased they hate moe!!' crew copy+pasting their responses from the last thread about a controversial review isn't worth it.

Brians9824 wrote:
Actually getting some good comments here. I would be curious to know, how exactly does the review system work? Are reviewers randomly assigned shows to review or do they have any say in what type of shows they review?


Depends. We have a few publishers who just send stuff straight to the critics, which they then review, but most of it comes to me. I compile it and send out a list of available screeners. The four critics divvy everything up, and I send it out. There is usually a discussion of who wants to do what, with titles being distributed basically evenly. I consider all four of them to be open-minded, fair individuals.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4081
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:39 pm Reply with quote
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
grgspunk wrote:

To assume that everyone who actually likes moe will jump for the show is a case of generalizing. There are plenty of people who have an interest in moe that have found certain moe shows to be disappointing and not worth their purchase. What, you think they don't have limited budgets or prefer to make informed decisions too? There could be such thing as a moe "fan" reviewer is capable of seeing what may or may not interest fans and non-fans alike: It's just a matter of deciding whether he's capable of writing a professional review and can look at a title with a more critical eye. However, if a reviewer doesn't have at least some sort of interest in what a title has to offer, then he's essentially wasting his time and risks writing off the genre it belongs to as a flaw in his review or make flaws sound like they're worse than they actually are.


The person I was responding to sounded like he assumed the show would've gotten a higher rating if the reviewer was a moe fan, so I was responding in kind. As far as I know, too, loli =\= moe, so I didn't even *know* this show was considered "moe" until people started complaining that the reviewer was biased because it was moe on the forums. If I didn't even realize reading the review that the show was moe, then how does it equal into a "this is moe so the show sucks" sort of review?

It's not that I think moe fans don't want to make informed choices, but how does this keep them from doing that? Can't they ask their other friends with similar tastes? Can't they look at the good things Carl said about the show and decide if they'd like it? I mean, you're all saying that people might decide to not try out this show because of this one review, but how would a moe fan come to that conclusion? Have you seen a single person post here saying they won't watch this show even though they like moe? No, the only ones that have said that are the ones that don't like moe and magical girl shows. So big deal. Even if Carl liked that sort of show, how would that convince those people to watch it?

ANN isn't the only review site out there. If someone wants a second opinion, they can go find it. They can even easily go to the anime form and make a topic about this anime asking people that like moe magical girl shows what they think.

I personally think that the idea that this site has an agenda because the reviewers don't have the same tastes as you as ridiculous. I've seen high ratings given to shows like Kanon and Air here on ANN. There's people like you that are registered to the forum that like moe--hopefully, I'm assuming, for doing more than just complaining every time a reviewer doesn't agree with your point of view. The idea that ANN is some massive conspiracy to undermine the shows you like is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever read a review, news article, or column on this site that has made me go "oh, ew, everything in this one genre must suck". In fact, it convinced me to put Kanon and Air on my "want to watch" list on anime-planet.

No, in fact, the only thing I've ever seen on this site that's made me not want to watch moe? The fans that come here in legions acting like they're some sort of oppressed minority on par with women not being allowed to vote. I've only seen maybe one or two short comments on why people should watch Nanoha. Most of you aren't doing that. Instead, you're wasting your energy saying "Carl should be fired" or "ANN has an agenda!" instead of saying WHY you like the show. So far, all I've gotten is that you don't think the whipping scene is fanservice. Okay, fine, that's a great, valid point. Anything else? Why do you like the show? It's moe? And...it has beams? Is that all?

You're not convincing people that the show is good, you're convincing people your section of the fandom is whiny and entitled. It's hurting, not helping. If you really feel that this show is this great, stand up and tell us why.


Thank you, this is exactly what I've been trying to say. I've read nothing that truly defends the better points of the series. So far one defense has been, "There must be a conspiracy" which is laughable. The best argument for the show so far has been picking a point made in the review and disagreeing with it. That really isn't offering a differing opinion so much as it is just saying "No, you're wrong."
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omoikane



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Labbes wrote:

If he had said "The music is plain generic" I bet the same people would have complained about that being not precise enough.

Maybe that would be better than having more people complaining about not saying anything. I guess he can decide that for himself.
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grgspunk



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I personally think that the idea that this site has an agenda because the reviewers don't have the same tastes as you as ridiculous. I've seen high ratings given to shows like Kanon and Air here on ANN. There's people like you that are registered to the forum that like moe--hopefully, I'm assuming, for doing more than just complaining every time a reviewer doesn't agree with your point of view. The idea that ANN is some massive conspiracy to undermine the shows you like is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever read a review, news article, or column on this site that has made me go "oh, ew, everything in this one genre must suck". In fact, it convinced me to put Kanon and Air on my "want to watch" list on anime-planet.



What, you think saying crap like "moe overkill" in Kanon's review isn't going to attract some flak?


Last edited by grgspunk on Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Counter Arts



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:56 pm Reply with quote
The reason why it's good then is that it is like Sailor Moon, CCS, Dragonball Z, and Gundam merged together.

Emotionally complex plot with awesome actions sequences that have at least some decent form of TACTICS. It's tactics WITHOUT the drawn out explanations of how the special technique was created and how hard they trained to get it.

THAT is why Nanoha is awesome!
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:57 pm Reply with quote
grgspunk wrote:
Quote:
I personally think that the idea that this site has an agenda because the reviewers don't have the same tastes as you as ridiculous. I've seen high ratings given to shows like Kanon and Air here on ANN. There's people like you that are registered to the forum that like moe--hopefully, I'm assuming, for doing more than just complaining every time a reviewer doesn't agree with your point of view. The idea that ANN is some massive conspiracy to undermine the shows you like is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever read a review, news article, or column on this site that has made me go "oh, ew, everything in this one genre must suck". In fact, it convinced me to put Kanon and Air on my "want to watch" list on anime-planet.


What, you think saying crap like "moe overkill" in Kanon's review isn't indicative of an inherent unfair bias for you?


No, because not everyone likes moe, and for those that don't, they might find it overkill. That volume was still given something like a B, was it? Key reviewed the entire series and it was positive. I'm pretty sure Bamboo gave it a high rating, too.

Your tastes are selective. That doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't share your tastes mean they're a bad reviewer.

EDIT:
Quote:
The reason why it's good then is that it is like Sailor Moon, CCS, Dragonball Z, and Gundam merged together.

Emotionally complex plot with awesome actions sequences that have at least some decent form of TACTICS. It's tactics WITHOUT the drawn out explanations of how the special technique was created and how hard they trained to get it.

THAT is why Nanoha is awesome!


Okay, that's a good start. The thing is, I haven't seen Sailor Moon or CCS (I know, I need to, and I'm planning to), and I hate DBZ and dislike Gundam.

Why do you consider the plot emotionally complex? The tactics thing does sound good--although...not really for me. (Particularly if it's "tactics" along the lines of DBZ.) I do like the point that they don't have those drawn out explanations, though, since that's one reason I really dislike shounen.


Last edited by MorwenLaicoriel on Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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