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NEWS: Phantom Episode 10 Leaked 1 Day Before Japan's Debut


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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:19 pm Reply with quote
While I'm rather sympathetic to what you're saying hikaru004, I have to disagree on this subject of ANN's response. Reporting this is exactly the kind of thing they should be doing. If they didn't report it, it would be a massive dereliction of duty.

Whether it encourages more actions like this or not, it's important to report what's going on. So long as ANN is reporting the full truth and as much as they possibly can. If they had information and were intentionally holding it back for reasons other than non-disclosure requirements, then that would be a problem.

This whole situation is ridiculous. Funimation's clearly got a pretty severe security problem and one they obviously didn't do enough to fix when they took down episodes earlier. At the same time, what the hell is wrong with people that they can't wait a short time and do things nice and legal? Seriously, is this some kind of a condition anime fans have? A psychosis by which only the illegal way is the "right" way?

This whole situation just seems so utterly pointless. Everyone's going to be screwed up by this and no one is likely to win any points in the long run so why do it in the first place? It just seems so stupid on all accounts.
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Revolutionary



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 601
Location: Too Far South
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:21 pm Reply with quote
dan888 wrote:
Simply don't upload the episode to the public server before it airs in Japan and it can't be leaked.


Yes, please FUNimation.

This is getting ridiculous now. I'm still not going to argue or even believe that FUNimation is at fault here, but they are at least slightly at fault no matters which way you look.

There's more than one leak now, and something needs to be done about it.

I'm now really worried about the future of legal streaming of anime. I was looking so forward to it... Sad
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:26 pm Reply with quote
Although it says previous episodes where available with a simple URL switch it doesn't say that is what happened to this one. Any possibility this one was stolen with a more advanced hack?

And I still challenge the usage of the word "leak" here. Doesn't that imply that someone at the company "leaked it" out? Whereas as what really happened is that the file was taken from where it wasn't supposed too. Regardless of whether FUNi's security is tough or easy, I still don't think this is a leak.

Maybe definition wise it might fit, but I think most news organizations reserve that term for when it comes from within the company, government, group, etc.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 678
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:30 pm Reply with quote
"A group" did it?

Does ANN know who is responsible? If so, it should report it, or at least relay that information to FUNimation. This is also a part of the truth.


Last edited by GWOtaku on Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zeqasa Saitou



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:30 pm Reply with quote
What I really don't understand is why everyone is being so harsh on Funimation. Metaphorically speaking, we are blaming someone who had their car stolen because their windows were easy to shatter and climb into. That is an unreasonable accusation on the victim. In an ideal society, they shouldn't even need to protect their stuff... in an ideal society, everyone would respect their endeavor to legally get a product to fan fast. But this isn't an idea society, so some things go wrong. But why is everyone blaming the victim?

I think the person we should be mad at is the person who is breaking in and illegally redistributing the animation; they are the ones who are causing a problem for both the animators and Funimation.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:33 pm Reply with quote
darkrunner wrote:
FUNi needs to seriously fix things, but shouldn't we blame the people who distribute the leaked videos? FUNi's helping to pave the way for simulcasts in America, and the community thanks them by stealing the videos. FUNi's to blame a lot for the public server, but that doesn't make it any more right to steal and repost the videos.


No, because like all the other supposed "leaks", someone could have just distributed a URL pointing to their publicly available files and people could just download them that way -- all perfectly legal. I didn't check all the other TL;DR threads but I'm sure it was brought up many times. The fact is that they've been uploading all of their episodes early and having it wide open for anyone to "Save As..." has been going on for a while now before anyone made a stink about it.

(In fact, their "streaming" system is essentially their player in your browser doing the exact equivalent of "Save As..")
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Jih2



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 403
Location: East coast
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Zeqasa Saitou wrote:
What I really don't understand is why everyone is being so harsh on Funimation. Metaphorically speaking, we are blaming someone who had their car stolen because their windows were easy to shatter and climb into.


A closer analogy would be if Funimation left their car outside of their house for a few hours running with the doors unlocked. It doesn't appear there was any window shattering.
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dan888



Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Zeqasa Saitou wrote:
What I really don't understand is why everyone is being so harsh on Funimation. Metaphorically speaking, we are blaming someone who had their car stolen because their windows were easy to shatter and climb into. That is an unreasonable accusation on the victim. In an ideal society, they shouldn't even need to protect their stuff... in an ideal society, everyone would respect their endeavor to legally get a product to fan fast. But this isn't an idea society, so some things go wrong. But why is everyone blaming the victim?

I think the person we should be mad at is the person who is breaking in and illegally redistributing the animation; they are the ones who are causing a problem for both the animators and Funimation.


Flawed analogy, Funimation put it up publicly on their servers for anyone to watch, so accessing it would not be illegal, only later distributing it. Breaking into a car is always illegal regardless of how easy it is to break in.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:35 pm Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
While I'm rather sympathetic to what you're saying hikaru004, I have to disagree on this subject of ANN's response. Reporting this is exactly the kind of thing they should be doing. If they didn't report it, it would be a massive dereliction of duty.

Whether it encourages more actions like this or not, it's important to report what's going on. So long as ANN is reporting the full truth and as much as they possibly can. If they had information and were intentionally holding it back for reasons other than non-disclosure requirements, then that would be a problem.

This whole situation is ridiculous. Funimation's clearly got a pretty severe security problem and one they obviously didn't do enough to fix when they took down episodes earlier. At the same time, what the hell is wrong with people that they can't wait a short time and do things nice and legal? Seriously, is this some kind of a condition anime fans have? A psychosis by which only the illegal way is the "right" way?

This whole situation just seems so utterly pointless. Everyone's going to be screwed up by this and no one is likely to win any points in the long run so why do it in the first place? It just seems so stupid on all accounts.


I see your side also but it's not helping the situation any. The more attention the more bragging the more the occurences will escalate. Bragging about OP 404 for example.

It's that e-penis thing all around. Sticking it to FUNi. There was absolutely no reason for not waiting considering this is a 26 episode series.
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Navak



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:36 pm Reply with quote
Zeqasa Saitou wrote:
What I really don't understand is why everyone is being so harsh on Funimation. Metaphorically speaking, we are blaming someone who had their car stolen because their windows were easy to shatter and climb into. That is an unreasonable accusation on the victim. In an ideal society, they shouldn't even need to protect their stuff... in an ideal society, everyone would respect their endeavor to legally get a product to fan fast. But this isn't an idea society, so some things go wrong. But why is everyone blaming the victim?

I think the person we should be mad at is the person who is breaking in and illegally redistributing the animation; they are the ones who are causing a problem for both the animators and Funimation.


No.

It's not like that at all, not even in metaphor.

The best possible analogy I could think of is if you imagine a tv station. They have windows through which you may view tvs...

Funimation is that station, and they left the curtains open on one side, the side that normally has the curtains closed, and now people are/were able to watch something which Funimation didn't intend to display, but displayed nonetheless.
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Acinom



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:39 pm Reply with quote
dan888 wrote:

Regardless of what the law says about file sharing, it is a factual statement that as long as Funi has no security, people will torrent the files as they are uploaded.

As to making a security system, these leaks are only possible because Funi puts them on their public server BEFORE it is released. If Crunchyroll can prevent leaks, I am sure the much larger Funimation can as well. More importantly, I am almost positive that releasing the files publicly before they are suppose to be released is a breach of contract between Funimation and the Japanese companies. And you say it is hard to make a good security system, that may be true, but there is one simple solution that would stop it. Simply don't upload the episode to the public server before it airs in Japan and it can't be leaked.


Point taken. However, the article is a bit ambiguous as to whether or not this episode was uploaded onto an insecure server or not (it states that previous episodes were insecure, but doesn't make mention of whether or not measures were take to secure this one is). Not to mention we don't know if it was an actual hack, or if it was someone within the company (hopefully just idle speculation on my part).

I totally agree with you on the issue of if Crunchyroll can keep their stuff secure, then so, theoretically, should Funimation.

Based on what I'm reading from the articles, I speculate Funimation had two main options available to them:
1.) Cease simulcasts and at the very least commission an IT security company to create a secure network for them. A bit time consuming and costly I would imagine.

2.) Get up some form of security (or heaven forbid, they decided not to secure anything after hemming and hawing for a few days), and resume the simulcasts to keep potential reciprocity with the fans.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Acinom wrote:

Point taken. However, the article is a bit ambiguous as to whether or not this episode was uploaded onto an insecure server or not (it states that previous episodes were insecure, but doesn't make mention of whether or not measures were take to secure this one is). Not to mention we don't know if it was an actual hack, or if it was someone within the company (hopefully just idle speculation on my part).


So.. to repeat what has been said before:
- there never has been a hack
- there never has been a secure server
- it was always like this for their streams, where anyone could save the flv file

To say that is was "illegally accessed" or to believe in the false "hack" theory is like claiming google hacked your servers because your FLV files showed up in the search results.
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Ichigo069



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Hinamizawa
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:47 pm Reply with quote
dan888 wrote:

<Bunch o' crap snipped here>
And you say it is hard to make a good security system, that may be true, but there is one simple solution that would stop it. Simply don't upload the episode to the public server before it airs in Japan and it can't be leaked.

ZOMG SOMEBODY IN THIS THREAD HAS A BRAIN!!!!!!
omoikane wrote:
hikaru004 wrote:
At some point, "minimizing harm" part of ethics should be kicking in. It seems to me that this is the moment.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, I can't help myself, you got me mr. troll. Funimation is a corporate entity, not a human being. At all. That ethics section refers to actual, flesh and blood people with feelings. It refers mostly to criminals, victims, and people going through a hard time. Now sure the guys working at Funi might be going through a hard time, and if ANN's article was talking about people working @ Funi then you might be right. But neither has happened yet.

Funimation's failure is something that really needs public attention! They need to be held accountable for their mistakes, and I'm sure as Funi has proved in the past, they can turn around, do the right thing and learn from their mistakes. It's not "lurid curiosity." It's a serious problem plaguing a fledgling internet video streaming service. Give it a rest already.

Yeah, omoikane, evidently he took my advice on trying to troll harder and actualy improved. I give him a 7/10 on that one.
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Plorkyeran



Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Acinom wrote:
Point taken. However, the article is a bit ambiguous as to whether or not this episode was uploaded onto an insecure server or not (it states that previous episodes were insecure, but doesn't make mention of whether or not measures were take to secure this one is). Not to mention we don't know if it was an actual hack, or if it was someone within the company (hopefully just idle speculation on my part).

Not only was it sitting on a publicly accessible server, but it was even briefly linked to on Funimation's video page. Calling it an insecure server is somewhat misleading though -- that implies that there were security measures which simply didn't work. So far there's no reason to believe that the standard unix or windows security mechanisms would not have prevented all of the leaks if they were actually used.
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Tofusensei



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:11 pm Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
The more attention the more bragging the more the occurences will escalate. Bragging about OP 404 for example.

It's that e-penis thing all around. Sticking it to FUNi. There was absolutely no reason for not waiting considering this is a 26 episode series.


hikaru, please give it a rest. The ANN Editor in Chief himself explained his rationale for why they ran the story. If you can't accept that, you've got a fundamental philosophical difference with this news site.

Do you disagree with the media publishing reports on terrorist attacks? Is that letting the terrorists win?
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