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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
I find it really hilarious that you resort to being smug and condescending in order to devalue being educated about something. I guess making fun of ourselves for being pretentious wasn't enough for you?

Then again you're usually peddling lazy populist BS about how noble it is to just love Z-grade sex comedies so it doesn't shock me that you feel threatened by anyone talking about entertainment beyond "i liked the boobies and the fart jokes!".

As for your second comment, sorry, I was raised in the southwest and continue to live here. "Like" is and forever will be part of my vocabulary. You'd know all aboot obnoxious regional dialects, though, wouldn't you?


I would never devalue being educated about anything. Spouting pretentious twaddle about how you are so much more alive to *snooty-sniff* cinema than those poor blighted masses who don't share that background...yeah, I don't value that so much.

Apparently, that fine state school education didn't make you immune from mischaracterizing other people's views, either. I have never said there was anything noble about enjoying what you term Z-grade sex comedies - I just not an admirer of your lazy, unprofessional, "form an opinion based on the premise before I actually watch the material in question" style of "reviewing."

And verbally punctuating sentences with "like" is not a regional dialect. It is an odious strain of teenybopper argot that has been around since the 1960s and is usually abandoned by anybody over the age of 22, assuming they attain even a modest level of articulateness.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:
Splitter wrote:

I hate critics who say that their position means they can't be objective. You choose not to be objective. You choose to lord your opinion. This excuse that a critic's job means being entirely subjective is effectively killing the entire industry of paid critics, making their voices worthless because no one is going to give any credence to someone who just wants to listen to the sound of their own voice.


When you talk about critics being "objective", what does that actually mean? Unless we're using very different meanings of the word, objective in this context to me implies the existence of a view about a movie that is factually accurate and which can be verified by all observers. Which is clearly not the case.


Title. Minutes runtime. Cast. Detailed plot. Available media format.

As soon as you start to do a plot synopses, you are heading into "subjective" territory - one person views one event as important, for another person its part of the background.

Placing it into a genre might be "intersubjective" - that is, it might be clear what most other people will think its genre is ... but the whole definition of a genre is awfully subjective.

Basically, everything in a review that you can't get from the distributor's website ... everything that makes a review worth reading ... its subjective.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:27 pm Reply with quote
4nBlue wrote:
Your post is complaining about fanservice, not moe. Ranma824 talked about moe in the post you quoted, and you used it as a launch pad for a rant against fanservicy anime like Ikkitousen and Queen's Blade, ...


Shorter me: IkkiTousen would be better anime with gangs of high school kids with magical earrings beating the stuffing out of each other along the vague plotline of the 3 Kingdoms but without so much lazy fan service and with some of the female character designs that looked like they had not had plastic surgery (not great anime, but better). OTOH, if its got a market, I'm happy that it keeps some animators in work, and I am happy that Funimation was able to do well in the Xbox360 download market with one of the series.

Queen's Blade, I wouldn't know - I've never watched it. I don't even know that MediaBlasters will be streaming the whole thing.

By contrast, when its lolicon, whether its directly acknowledged as lolicon or whether moe is used as a euphemism, if means it goes without an R1 license, that would be just fine by me.
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Ranma824



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:37 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Lolicon goes beyond "cultural quirk" and into the territory of wondering about people who are unable to see what is so icky about it.

While it is "icky", alot of people agree that there are worse things then people getting their fix from drawings.

Then there is always the, "who gets to define what icky is" segment of people as well.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:

I would never devalue being educated about anything. Spouting pretentious twaddle about how you are so much more alive to *snooty-sniff* cinema than those poor blighted masses who don't share that background...yeah, I don't value that so much.


What I said was true, and I should've probably said that it applies to pretty much everything, not just the arts. Knowing stuff about stuff makes stuff better and helps you appreciate it on a higher level. Pretty basic facts. You're allergic to pretension, I understand that, but let's not go too far overboard with the "f*ck you, college boy!" populist crap, okay?

Quote:
I just not an admirer of your lazy, unprofessional, "form an opinion based on the premise before I actually watch the material in question" style of "reviewing."


Here are just a couple of my reviews:

animenewsnetwork.com/review/astro-boy-2009
animenewsnetwork.com/review/afro-samurai/resurrection/dub.dvd-uncut
animenewsnetwork.com/review/evangelion-1.0-you-are-not-alone

I don't do what you're describing. You and I do not have much in common, taste-wise. I guess you can't just disagree with someone, though! It's that they're objectively wrong! Also, not liking the same cartoons you do means I'm unprofessional.

Quote:

And verbally punctuating sentences with "like" is not a regional dialect. It is an odious strain of teenybopper argot that has been around since the 1960s and is usually abandoned by anybody over the age of 22, assuming they attain even a modest level of articulateness.


Yadda yadda. I thought you and I were friends now? We really enjoyed having you on the show, and you've been nice about stuff for months. Are you having a bad day? Why the sudden harsh personal attacks?
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Eh, I suppose my comments have come off a bit bitchier than I actually felt/intended. Just so that you are clear on my attitude, I do like you and I think you're funny - I'm just not onboard with the whole Zac package sometimes, as I perceive it.

We may have more common ground in anime shows than you think. You seem to be only aware of my ecchi-love posts, but believe it or not, I do actually discuss other types of shows as well.
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Onizuka666



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Good show Zac, except for one problem.

I listened to it through my stereo, and it has some sounds problems through out, where the volume rises and fades. This resulted in me having to lower and raise the volume a few times.

You might want to check out a program like Levelator, that might help even out the overall volume level to a reasonable point, no matter who's talking.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Ranma824 wrote:
agila61 wrote:
Lolicon goes beyond "cultural quirk" and into the territory of wondering about people who are unable to see what is so icky about it.

While it is "icky", alot of people agree that there are worse things then people getting their fix from drawings.

Then there is always the, "who gets to define what icky is" segment of people as well.


"Oh, this would be much, much, much worse if these were live child actresses" is an awfully weak argument. It has the same logical shape as "yeah, so I beat them up, at least I didn't shoot them".

And kind of, like, societies get to say what kinds of sexualized protrayals of pre-teen girls is icky. Being a member of a social species of primate sucks sometimes.

However, its not going to go on forever as a main driver of anime's getting the go-ahead, because its a commercial dead end ... long term viability requires having shows that are accessible points of entry to a larger fraction of the population.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:25 pm Reply with quote
While it's certainly true that your enjoyment of a show is enhanced if it's saying something intelligent, the exact opposite is true, If the show continually interrupts action to talk about stuff that means nothing than your enjoyment plummets.

A great example is Gundam Wing, it's a good show as long as it's not actually trying to say something deep. Theirs a scene where Herro talks about 5 minutes and the thing could have best have been done in a couple of lines. It also tries to present absolute Pacifism as a valid option, before a new Director arrives and shows how stupid absolute pacifism is by having Earth be conquered in minutes.

Gundam is overall pretty bad about this where they will have characters stop fighting in a middle of a war to have an arguement.

An example of how to do it properly is the FMA manga, while it's a solid shonen action series, it also does have some intelligent things to say, but makes sure that it's stated during the flow of the show instead of stopping the show to lecture the audience like most other series.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:35 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:

Shorter me: IkkiTousen would be better anime with gangs of high school kids with magical earrings beating the stuffing out of each other along the vague plotline of the 3 Kingdoms but without so much lazy fan service and with some of the female character designs that looked like they had not had plastic surgery (not great anime, but better). OTOH, if its got a market, I'm happy that it keeps some animators in work, and I am happy that Funimation was able to do well in the Xbox360 download market with one of the series.


How is it lazy fan service? Have you not seen teenage females in real life with fairly large breasts, I know I sure did a lot when I was in High School. Okay having not so many large breasted females in the show would not have been so bad, but I don't see nothing wrong with as it is.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Onizuka666 wrote:
Good show Zac, except for one problem.

I listened to it through my stereo, and it has some sounds problems through out, where the volume rises and fades. This resulted in me having to lower and raise the volume a few times.

You might want to check out a program like Levelator, that might help even out the overall volume level to a reasonable point, no matter who's talking.


Yeah, I noticed that myself - I'm pretty sure it's a software thing on my end. But I just ran this show through Levelator (a program I hadn't used before to even out the levels) and it did a really nice job evening things out. From now on I'll run the show through that before posting it.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:52 pm Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
How is it lazy fan service? Have you not seen teenage females in real life with fairly large breasts, I know I sure did a lot when I was in High School.


Every single one of them Ikki large? C'mon, even Double-D is getting into more plastic surgery than not, and definitely Double-G and Double-X size. Lord knows what bra size they will pick for their next title if the series continues.

Quote:
Okay having not so many large breasted females in the show would not have been so bad, but I don't see nothing wrong with as it is.


Lazy because they have so little variety in their T&A fan service. Compare to the crazy Book of Bantorra / Armed Librarians which has the Asst. Director with 'uge tracts of land ... the scantily clad Noloty, while well endowed, is far from qualifying to be a HS girl on Ikki standards ... and Mirepoc is {shock, horrors} normal.

And the mandatory minimum quota of panty shots and exploding female shirts? If you took one shot of rum for every panty shot and one shot of vodka for every piece of exploding female apparel, the only question would be which one would kill you first.
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albanian



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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Location: UK
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Could I offer congratulations on one of the most interesting ANNcasts thus far. I was fascinated by the discussions with Noah and Erin, and with Theron. And if the 'cast did stray beyond the strict field of anime, it was all the more informative for doing so.

As for my take on the discussion about critics and criticism, I have always understood that a critic would have to be practically a divine being to avoid any hint of subjectivity. The critic with any degree of honesty and integrity acknowledges that and works with it: the reader with any degree of honesty and perception accepts that and works around it.

And I hope poor Brian didn't go home with too many puncture holes from Zac's stick - and that Justin is having a well-deserved rest!
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asimpson2006



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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:33 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:

Lazy because they have so little variety in their T&A fan service. Compare to the crazy Book of Bantorra / Armed Librarians which has the Asst. Director with 'uge tracts of land ... the scantily clad Noloty, while well endowed, is far from qualifying to be a HS girl on Ikki standards ... and Mirepoc is {shock, horrors} normal.

And the mandatory minimum quota of panty shots and exploding female shirts?


I don't think you need that much variety for a show like Ikki Tousen. It's fine the way I see it. I really don't think there a mandatory minimum quota for those two, it's more along the lines of well how much more can we put in each episode while still having some "plot" along the lines.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:08 pm Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
agila61 wrote:

Lazy because they have so little variety in their T&A fan service. Compare to the crazy Book of Bantorra / Armed Librarians which has the Asst. Director with 'uge tracts of land ... the scantily clad Noloty, while well endowed, is far from qualifying to be a HS girl on Ikki standards ... and Mirepoc is {shock, horrors} normal.

And the mandatory minimum quota of panty shots and exploding female shirts?


I don't think you need that much variety for a show like Ikki Tousen. It's fine the way I see it. I really don't think there a mandatory minimum quota for those two, it's more along the lines of well how much more can we put in each episode while still having some "plot" along the lines.


That is exactly what I said. It is "a show like Ikki Tousen" because plot is squeezed in if there is spare time left after the fan service and character development is largely dispensed with to make room.

But every movie can't be the Unbearable Lightness of Being - there's always going to be a number of Transformers II's.
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