Forum - View topicNEWS: Black Butler Author Decries Illegal Videos, Downloads
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TokyoGetter
 Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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I'm being a smart-ass because you're unable to present a cogent point that is suffused with statistics, sound reasoning, and anything besides straw man arguments and biased non-math. Then you accuse us of "not getting it" because we ask for research. Thanks for descending from Mt. Olympus for us mere mortals here, but again you're not PROVING anything. You're conjecturing.
I stated "50k a year" in my post re: lawyer salaries.
I'm sorry to go "inside" on this one, but I know many lawyers who work upwards of 60 hours a week. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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The only thing you're pretty good at is pushing ad nauseum your tired rationalizations for piracy and completely unworkable fantasyland business models, ignoring any arguments made against them, and telling those who don't accept them that they aren't bright enough to grasp or understand your brilliant ideas. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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As you say yourself, one could argue that you are still supporting the author in that you are splitting the original cost over multiple people. Then again, this is assuming the used store is acting more as a used book sale does in moving it between collections and not as a glorified rental shop like Gamestop which damages the new market.
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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I agree that, for an American working a single job, 60 hours is somewhat high, but for perspective 14 * 7 = 98, meaning manga-ka are working around 100 hours a week. |
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BuckwheatNoodle
Posts: 45 Location: Kanagawa, Japan |
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Be careful with these figures, because most people do not know where the money goes. I'll break this down for you, because this is what I do for a living. Pay attention. This is pretty accurate to the Asian model, and I'm sure the figures reflect the American model as well. When an artist comes to the company, the company pays for your EVERYTHING. A performer nowadays have to be well-rounded. You can't just be a singer anymore, you have to show up on television, sell products, do live performances, dance, etc. So the label fronts the costs for at minimum one year (some companies train you for two, three, and maybe even four years in the case of boy bands where the boys start young) of vocal training, acting lessons, runway walking techniques, etc. Then, expect to spend another 150k minimum (Asian companies generally spend less than their American counterparts), up to $500k on a music video for your debut. Throw in a few more hundred thousand bucks for marketing alone, getting you up on a few billboards, hiring a truck to drive down shibuya with your new singer's posters, getting air-time on television... All for an artist who may sink in two, three years. Major record labels make money off of two or three A-list stars -- most other artists lose money or barely break even for the record label, but they keep em around because it's good to have a big list of singers and get people from different demographics interested in their brand. Throw in some more money for getting songs copyrighted and licensed...and heck, this is quite the investment. THIS is why we're pissed off at bootleggers. EDIT: Don't forget that producers do many projects for multiple artists, so they get more royalties. Same with lawyers. Studios get paid for equipment used, hourly service, and engineers get paid per album based on skill. So before you get all high and righteous on me and say things like "ooh the artists get crap anyways, it all goes to those greedy record labels," consider how much money the labels are losing to keep B and C list stars afloat. The artists are in it for the fame, not the money -- fame which WE provide, which is inherent in the occupation itself. They still make a pretty penny advertising for products. Last edited by BuckwheatNoodle on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:52 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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GWOtaku
 Posts: 678 |
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You spectacularly miss the point. Read her post. It merely spells out simple logic that what artists create has to sell if they're going to make money and be able to go on creating. If too many people casually pay nothing without a second thought, the industry and the artists within it suffer. This is merely reality. You call her citation of it idiocy. The rest of us call it common sense. And while the piracy debate is an old one over here, if her message spreads even some awareness among Japanese fans and/or younger readers then it is a positive thing. Here again we have this inane "it's all A-OK if the artist isn't starving!" nonsense, as if there is no standing to complain so long as creators can at least survive. You don't get to claim that you're not dismissive of piracy when you're making meaningless declarations that you'll never support her work on the grounds that she's not telling the truth about the costs of said piracy. Manga sales in Japan are down, incidentally. And one would think the recent anti-aggregator alliance is sufficient proof that the issue of copyrighted material being read for free is taken seriously by more than the occasional artist. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Megiddo is at a site which offers news and reviews and other editorial content with advertising (and subscriptions) to pay the author, and with streaming anime with streaming ads to pay the rights holders.
Which leech streaming site are you thinking of where Crunchyroll or ANN " audience doesn't even come close"? Setting aside the subscriptions, which are the bulk of Crunchyroll's income, Sitelogr.com at Crunchyroll estimated free view revenue of $766/day, and ANN at $610/day, both of which are better than any leach anime streaming site. And as was covered back at the start of the year, the majority of Funimation's views are not at its free Funimation.com site, but via its free Youtube and Hulu channels.
Thus we can not "definitely rule out free being the reason". What PJ is saying here is that its the scope and speed of release that is responsible for the audience of OneManga, MangaFox, and the other one of the big three that has its headline still coming up. But that is where PJ's argument that OneManga and their ilk have developed the business model that the publishers only need to duplicate falls over in a heap. Because there is no way to duplicate the scope and speed of OneManga with OneManga's business model. Indeed, all three of the source of streaming anime that beat the anime leach streaming sites would collapse if they tried to switch to OneManga's business model. ANN seems to be the closest, accepting basically all anime that the rights owners are willing to have stream for a cut of streaming ad revenue and cross-streaming where permitted, but one the one hand could not possibly afford to do that on banner advertising alone and on the other hand does that as an adjunct of an already well established news and reviews backbone. Crunchyroll would fold without its subscription income stream. Funimation gains streaming rights primarily as an adjunct to DVD distribution, and the pure streaming licenses alone benefit substantially from the network economies of the Funimation catalog that is streaming on the basis of all-rights licenses. The idea that the stream of income generated by OneManga could pay rights to the scope of work formerly available on that site and leave any money at all to cover hosting costs and a surplus is simply fantasizing on PJ's part, in service to his pre-determined conclusion. |
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chocoshins
Posts: 8 Location: greece |
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I just love the hypocrisy of a few people that are like 'zomg it is so illegal, no, BUY THE MANGA DAMN YOU!11" while all of us over time, has read scans and watched fansubs.
And just because you do the above doesn;t always mean, you won;t buy licensed stuff either. Piracy has been on since decades, has its + and - for the creators- companies, but there is definitely one thing sure; doesn;t make you less of a fan. Also, not all people can go to the nearest store and provide themselves with a copy and not anyone can buy every stuff they watching/reading. And since by default i cannot afford to buy everything, i prefer to spend my money on a mangaka i really love and support or a series that really captured my interest, rather than in something i 'just' like or whatever i am reading/watching at the moment, all cause of the zomg-guilt-trip. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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I love the reliance of people arguing in favor of piracy on red herring and straw man arguments. If you both read scans and buy manga, both watch fansubs and watch anime on legit streams or DVD's you've purchases, the scans and fansubs do not support the industry, and if you watch them on an ad-supported site, you are actively supporting the undermining of the industry. And the legit content supports the industry. The more scans and fansubs you watch on ad-supported sites, the more damage you do, and the fewer you watch, the less damage you do. |
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BuckwheatNoodle
Posts: 45 Location: Kanagawa, Japan |
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1. You assume that all of us have read a scanlation or bootleg. Not a valid argument. 2. "Just because you do the above doesn't mean you won't buy licensed stuff either." So, referring back to what someone said earlier...I am loyal customer of ABC mart in my neighborhood. I buy some of their products, I shoplift some of them to see if they're worth buying. Most of the time though, I figure buying is not worth it, like most of the people who do what I do, so I continue shoplifting it. You assume that every thief has a trace of honor. 3. "Doesn't make you less of a fan." Yes, it does. A fan supports the artist; a fan does not steal. Last edited by BuckwheatNoodle on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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GWOtaku
Posts: 678 |
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Of course, the discussion is about a message from a mangaka asking for support from fans that can buy a copy and sent messages telling her that they love her work along with remarks about seeing it for free. |
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chocoshins
Posts: 8 Location: greece |
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Oh really? If someone is really into a series but not being able to afford it, that automatically makes them no-fan. Sounds kind of discriminating. |
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BuckwheatNoodle
Posts: 45 Location: Kanagawa, Japan |
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You've missed my point. Please read what I wrote again, carefully. "A fan supports the artist; a fan does not steal." "Supports the artist; a fan does not steal." "A fan does not steal." "Does not steal." "Steal." If you are actively stealing and killing revenue from your artist, you cannot call yourself a fan. Again. Let's try this again. "A fan supports the artist; a fan does not steal." |
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hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Whatever else it makes them, it does basically make them irrelevant. Businesses generally discriminate against people with no money. |
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