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Why Robtech is better than Macross (and those two others).


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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1368
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:21 pm Reply with quote
DWP102589 wrote:

I also want to make it clear that this is not intended as trolling, it's me stating my honest opinion as a long-time anime-fan (I refuse to use the word "otaku") and hoping to begin some intelligent discussion of it among fellow fans.

If you're not trying to troll then don't make a topic that doesn't contain the fact that this is your personal opinion in the title. I see this, I'm already thinking "well, this guy is just asking for attention. Stating Robotech is better than Macross like it's a fact or something"
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D95W19P9
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Joined: 30 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:45 pm Reply with quote
Nerv1 wrote:
It is starting to become evident that the original poster is trolling. Besides who would say that the edited version of a classic show would better due to the fact that all of the best elements of it are taken out? Its like saying the director's cut version of Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven(which restored cut content) was a lot worse than the flopped edited version of the movie that was shown and failed in theaters.


I'm not trolling, I'm stating my honest opinion, and I hoped to engage in intelligent discussion of the quality of Robotech versus its source material.

Is this how fans critique English dubs / adaptations? Just ranting about the changes made and hating it just because it changed things? Or do we look at how the adaptation stands by itself, and try to honestly analyze whether its on par, inferior, or superior to the original work.

As an anime fan myself, I noticed that lots of anime fans just hate all English adaptations of anime purely on principle, regardless of the actual quality of the resulting shows; while others just blindly follow whatever opinion seems the most popular among their fellow fans.

I'm just trying to say to you all, think critically, and think for yourself.
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RHachicho



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Essex, UK
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:06 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm just trying to say to you all, think critically, and think for yourself.


So those people who don't even partially agree with you and who simply voiced the opinion that you where dead wrong are obviously engaged in some massive internet conspiracy to avoid admitting the epicness of Robotech?

Physician, Heal thyself.
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Nerv1



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 601
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:58 am Reply with quote
DWP102589 wrote:
Nerv1 wrote:
It is starting to become evident that the original poster is trolling. Besides who would say that the edited version of a classic show would better due to the fact that all of the best elements of it are taken out? Its like saying the director's cut version of Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven(which restored cut content) was a lot worse than the flopped edited version of the movie that was shown and failed in theaters.


I'm not trolling, I'm stating my honest opinion, and I hoped to engage in intelligent discussion of the quality of Robotech versus its source material.

Is this how fans critique English dubs / adaptations? Just ranting about the changes made and hating it just because it changed things? Or do we look at how the adaptation stands by itself, and try to honestly analyze whether its on par, inferior, or superior to the original work.

As an anime fan myself, I noticed that lots of anime fans just hate all English adaptations of anime purely on principle, regardless of the actual quality of the resulting shows; while others just blindly follow whatever opinion seems the most popular among their fellow fans.

I'm just trying to say to you all, think critically, and think for yourself.


I don't mind English dubs, but I hate it when adaptions completely butcher the original, its like a crappy by product. Seriously you just need to understand our opinions as a whole and stop trolling about why you think we have think that you're right and why you think we have to think your way.
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hipnox



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:45 am Reply with quote
i have no idea how you can remove ANYTHING from macross and make it better.
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Mai Yukino



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:03 am Reply with quote
To the poster of this topic,I can't understand why you think Robotech is better than Macross. I've seen both versions and I prefer the original over the Robotech incarnation. One reason is Mari Ijima is far better a singer than Minmay's English voice, Reba West. I thought Reba West was a horrible singer. The Macross Minmay songs are far better to listen to, such as "Ai Oboete Imasuka" and "Tenshi no Enogeru" Another is, that terribly done Sentinels movie, Minmay obviously couldn't get over the fact that Rick(Hikaru) was with with Lisa(Misa), whereas in the Macross continuity, Minmay was able to move on and accept Hikaru being with Misa. It's because of Robotech Minmay that her character in general gets hated by fans, because she is seen as a selfish, clingy girl and still appears as such from the Sentinels movie, where in the Macross continuity, her character matures into a fine young lady according to Flashback 2012. I myself like Minmay, but as you can see I prefer Macross Minmay over the Robotech one.
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Jaymie



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:30 am Reply with quote
Because nostalgia misleads people into believing that a horrendous butchering of multiple series is better than the originals.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:01 am Reply with quote
I don't really get why everyone is dogpiling on DWP, claiming this is trolling. The big argument being harped on is the music, which is a fairly subjective call, and DWP never said that Macross et al. are bad. I've never seen Robotech, so I can't really voice an opinion on how it compares to Macross, but as someone who greatly enjoyed Macross and it's sequels, I see nothing to get so defensive about.
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D95W19P9
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Joined: 30 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
So those people who don't even partially agree with you and who simply voiced the opinion that you where dead wrong are obviously engaged in some massive internet conspiracy to avoid admitting the epicness of Robotech?

Physician, Heal thyself.


Quote:
I don't mind English dubs, but I hate it when adaptions completely butcher the original, its like a crappy by product. Seriously you just need to understand our opinions as a whole and stop trolling about why you think we have think that you're right and why you think we have to think your way.


I'm never said that you HAVE to agree with me, I'm just asking that you be tolerant and understanding of my opinion. If you like the original versions of three original animes that Robotech was made from, or if you like any of the other works in the Macross franchise, then great, more power to you; I actually really like the Macross franchise in general (but I strongly dislike a lot of the sequels), I just like Robotech a little more.
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D95W19P9
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:58 pm Reply with quote
Jaymie wrote:
Because nostalgia misleads people into believing that a horrendous butchering of multiple series is better than the originals.


If you actually took the time to read my original post, you'd know that Robotech was never a part of my nostalgia, and I only discovered it and saw it after many years of being a fan of uncut anime.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:30 pm Reply with quote
DWP102589 wrote:
I'm never said that you HAVE to agree with me,


Oh no, you said:
Quote:
... to anyone with working ears, Robotech's music in infinitely superior to the music it replaced
IOW, everybody has two options: they agree with you or their ears don't work.

Presenting your personal tastes for music that is a flimsy pastiche of late 70's heroic movie openings like Star Wars and Superman: The Movie as something that defines whether or not anybody's ears are working is the opposite of the tolerance for different opinions that you are demanding from everyone else.
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D95W19P9
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:35 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
DWP102589 wrote:
I'm never said that you HAVE to agree with me,


Oh no, you said:
Quote:
... to anyone with working ears, Robotech's music in infinitely superior to the music it replaced
IOW, everybody has two options: they agree with you or their ears don't work.

Presenting your personal tastes for music that is a flimsy pastiche of late 70's heroic movie openings like Star Wars and Superman: The Movie as something that defines whether or not anybody's ears are working is the opposite of the tolerance for different opinions that you are demanding from everyone else.


I was only trying to express how strongly I felt about that point; but I agree that I definitely could have worded that a lot better, and for that I apologize.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:35 pm Reply with quote
I have a soft spot in my heart for Robotech, but I am NOT going to address the underlying assumption of this thread's title if for no other reason that I have absolutely no desire to become subsumed into the Robotech v. Macross/Southern Cross/Mosspaeda debate.....

Love him or hate him -- and damned few anime fans are neutral toward him -- one has to admit that Carl Macek made a huge and indelible impression on the anime market outside of Japan with this production of his from the mid-80s. I will discuss my reactions to it as teenager at the time.

Whenever I discuss my reactions to Robotech, I invariably bring up G.I. Joe; the reason that I do so is because it invites the most comparisons:
  1. It was on at the same time; and
  2. It was also about war/fighting in the near future.

So what, exactly, was it that blew me away?
  1. The Graphics:
    G.I. Joe simply didn't compare. Period.
  2. The Music:
    I'm not audiologically inclined, but I was impressed with Robotech's soundtrack. (I also loved the way the opening closed -- with a Veritech defending the SDF-1, which -- in turn -- was defending the Earth. A rather cool juxtaposition, I thought.)
  3. The Plot/Character Development:
    This is what so completely blew me away and forced me to re-examine all of the anime that I had watched -- almost all of it being American -- in a new light. I had never before seen any series where the characters openly questioned the morality of war. I had never before seen any series where death was acknowledged -- much less any series where main characters WERE KILLED OFF!!!

    G.I. Joe had none of this. NONE.

By the way, I didn't find out until years later that Robotech was a Japanese anime, and not until even later that it was comprised of three unrelated series -- none of which had the concept of Protocuture. But I always regard Robotech as the series that opened my eyes to the shortcomings of G.I. Joe (and Superfriends, and The Flintstones, and Scooby-do, and He-Man, and Voltron, and Tom & Jerry, and the rest of the sad and sorry crop).
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zawa113
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:04 pm Reply with quote
nbahn wrote:
[*]The Plot/Character Development:
This is what so completely blew me away and forced me to re-examine all of the anime that I had watched -- almost all of it being American -- in a new light. I had never before seen any series where the characters openly questioned the morality of war. I had never before seen any series where death was acknowledged -- much less any series where main characters WERE KILLED OFF!!!

I'm more amazed at how censorship has advanced since this show came out in the 80s, I mean, 4Kids edited one of Buggy's crew members in One Piece just because he was black and also did the "poison suction cups" replacement (I can't even imagine what they would've done with Claudia and Roy at the time, I mean a black woman and a white man dating? Whuuuuu?!) And then of course there's always that one line I remember from Yugioh The Abridged Series "Yugi! You can't be dead! If you were dead, 4Kids would've censored it!" (and "I wanted to use the visible guns, but nooo, we had to use the invisible guns!").
I mean, I don't get it, when did they figure that kids can't deal with the permanent death of a character? And I mostly mean America, two French shows that I've seen, both made within the past five years, (Oban Star-Racers and Wakfu) have both had one, so looking back at Robotech today (which I say somewhat ironically seeing how it aired before I was born) merely makes me question wtf is wrong with America these days? And it makes me also wonder "why is everyone complaining about what happened to Robotech when so much worse things have happened with 4Kids a hell of a lot more recently?" I mean, Robotech left in death, it left in the questioning of war, it left in romance, and while they cut stuff out, I think what they left in is a lot more important in this case and they still made a really good show all things said (I know that they cut some shower scenes and some more violent scenes from the Masters arc, which I understand, but they also cut stuff from Zor's backstory as a result of changing his origins, the Masters arc being the only one I've also seen in original sub).
I really like Robotech but it didn't give me a burning desire to see the original series because I had felt like I'd seen a broken wreck of a mess, but rather because I had seen something really really good.
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Dolza



Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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Location: Chicagoland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:51 am Reply with quote
I have to agree with the prior 2 posters. Robotech IS the reason I am an anime fan. I watched (and enjoyed) SDF-M a lot, (and SDC-SC for that matter) but the memory of what I loved as a kid will outweigh the flaws. I also prefer the new music.
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