Forum - View topicHow do you feel about older animation?
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Vision of Escaflowne is old? I feel old. And I'm not even thirty.
The character designs in the show didn't bother me at first, but then they did. And then when I began to comprehend the awesome story, then they were trivial. Yeah, noses that could be used as box-cutters or pry-bars are pretty weird, but they're only as distracting as you let them be. Give me those noses over the character designs of Kyoto Animation Moefests any day. The eyes. The eyes. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Anything made before I was born or within the first 12 years of my life. Pre-1994 I guess. You could also just refer to it as "The Toonami Age". |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Agreed. I prefer old character designs anyway, so I'm probably biased as all hell. I love me some Mikimoto.
You are, without a doubt. Oh well, your loss. I can take solace in that even if anime were to stop tomorrow, let's say Japan is wiped from the face of the Earth, I still have hundreds of shows to get through. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9841 Location: Virginia |
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The character designs in Vision of Escaflowne did take some getting used to. However this is a not a good example since they are not really characteristic of the period. I can't remember any other series with that "look". Can anyone think of another show with similar character designs?
For me a limit of anything before I was 12 would not eliminate more than a few shows. My definiation of old is anything that disappeared before I got into anime. If I bought it new it is hard to think of it as old. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Zin5ki I believe that there is difference between what is good and what is enjoyable, though these two are not mutually exclusive. I can admire something for having well developed characters, for an excellent storytelling etc. and like it or not and there are series I can enjoy watching despite their flaws.
Children are less judgmental, they cannot say whether a show is good or not, because they lack knowledge and experience. They can enjoy watching even very awful series because they don’t know anything better, for example: when I was small I enjoyed Yatterman, occasionally I watch Yatterman and I still enjoy it because of nostalgia, but it is not a show I would ever consider to be among the better series. For children or newbies certain shows can seem marvellous and entertaining, but usually the more you watch, the more jaded you become. That's why it's highly unlikely that I would enjoy watching Yatterman now if I hadn't seen it in my childhood. |
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Cabal17
 Posts: 63 Location: Texas |
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Lately I've been watching a bunch of older stuff: Vampire Hunter D, Gall Force, Project A-ko, Zeta Gundam, etc.
The limited animation that often crops up in the older titles without much budget is somewhat annoying at times, but I really get sick of the digital sheen everything has these days. Really, the mid to late 90's animation before digi-paint is the best looking in my opinion. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I have recently lent credence to the notion that the act of declaring something good is indeed different to the act of declaring it enjoyable, but under the caveat that the former is no less subjective than the latter. It is perhaps most appropriate if I spare you the precise details of this hypothesis, and instead outline its consequences in a manner relevant to this thread: If a person well-acquainted with an old anime were to claim it enjoyable, they may express something perhaps less abstract and more emotional than in the case of calling the same anime good. Nevertheless, if we desire to search for anime that we would express as being enjoyable or good, we have reason to be wary of either of this person's expressions to an equal degree. This is because both attributions of enjoyability and goodness — and not just the former — can only inform us of this speaker's attitudes towards the anime. Whilst it is an uncontroversial fact that different fans enjoy different things, I am also of the more unfavourable belief that different fans may hold differing things to be "good" in the most valid of manners. As such, one must take others' most earnest suggestions with caution: if one desires to expose oneself to the titles one would express as being good, only the judgements of like-minded consumers can be of merit. Children, to use your example, may simply be disposed to express the merits of things I would not, thereby being of less utility to myself than they are to their equally juvenile peers. On a less technical note, would most fans of 1980s animation consider the current price for a copy of Bubblegum Crisis to be acceptable? |
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2036
 Posts: 53 |
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I love the style and animation of ate 80s through late 90s. Sort of a highlight in my eyes of anime.
There may be fantastic shows before and after this time frame but a great bunch of good shows exist within that frame. |
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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What price? The DVDs out now are probably old transfers anyway, but we're never gonna see the BluRays here. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Speaking of Vision of Escaflowne, I just watched an episode of Birdy the Mighty Decode, which was directed by the same director. I wanted to watch this TV series because I saw the original Birdy the Mighty and really enjoyed it. Birdy the Mighty is a great example of an aged anime that was well representative of its time. I don't think any of the staff involved with the original Escaflowne TV series had worked on Birdy but both were released the same year (1996).
Birdy the Mighty OAV definitely has that 90's look to it, but I guess the story concept deserved a rehashing for a more modern anime. Escaflowne which had a rather progressive, experimental style helped set the standards for anime years to come so it's kind of ironic how the new (2008) Birdy the Mighty Decode character design resembles Escaflowne a bit. Not to mention it's directed by Kazuki Akane. Natsumi from Birdy Decode is practically a clone of Hitomi, but similarites in other characters are not as apparent since the character designer was not involved in the original OAV. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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The oldest anime I have seen were the kids shows of the 90s, that is pokemon, Digimon, Cardcaptors, Dragonball Z and a bit of Dragonball, I saw a bit of a sci-fi anime, but it was mostly boreing talking, possibly with little animation.
Since I started watching anime the furthest I have gone back might be Cowboy Bebop (I think 1998) actually, but the further I looked back the more I noticed certain animation problems that I didn't really like. Well I have seen some of the Studio Ghibli films, such as the earlier two which a wiki search has them at 1984 and 86, although I found them a bit difficult to watch. I am convinced that I will check out more older stuff eventually though. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I agree 100% about what's important is the story and characters. I always find it a bit irritating when people hate on older animation simply because it's older. I mean if not for the "old" shows you'd not have the glorious and coveted fancy animation you have now. Plus in 10 years you'll all get to suffer the same treatment when the next generation of fans call your shows old with crap animation. We'll see who laughs then ya whippersnappers heh. Seriously though what should matter most is the story and characters. That should be the bread and butter of any story. The actual plot and the characters. A show might have nice fancy animation but still have a crap story and characters. Then all you have in your hand is a dressed up piece of shit. It's still shit, and your hand still smells. No one is going to care if the turd looks nice. Your hand still smells like an animals ass. Where as if you have a good show, great characters, and a good plot that might be a bit older in terms of animation people will not run screaming from you. I mean it may not be the newest or best looking but at least it doesn't smell like shit. Now if a show has bad animation AND a bad plot and bad characters....well.....then you're probably watching Angel Cop and should either slam your head in a car door or destroy your tv to end the pain. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I have a soft spot for older animation. I mean don't get me wrong newer animation is very clean and looks great all around. But there's something about old school anime that has this very overwhelming feel. The look of traditional cel animation really can't be replicated and it's a shame that the process is being forgotten under the increasing use of cg and computer animation. The amount of detail, work, energy, and time that was often put into making an anime frame by frame was astounding. it really showed the stills and devotion of the animation staff.
It's interesting that the OP talks about how he/she has been pulling away from older animation lately. Recently I've been doing the exact opposite. For the past couple of weeks I've been longing to put in my old classics like Patlabor, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ridding Bean, and Lupin just because I've been feeling nostalgic for that older feel to anime. |
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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If all that mattered were story and characters people would read books and no one would give two poops about anime. It's an animation medium, the quality needs to be good to complete the picture. Besides, certain qualities of a series will resonate more with others; I certainly place a lot of emphasis on character development and interaction, but animation quality is high up on the list because if a show is fluid and has good looking characters I will find myself more immersed in it; whereas if the show looks like a beaten pinata full of vomit I am not going to be immersed. Bad visuals are distracting (as I recently talked about in the Shiki thread) and it is an essential part of the entertainment's makeup.
Shows these days certainly stand on the shoulders of earlier series, and certainly people who were there for the progression will see older shows with rose-tinting if only because of nostalgia; newer audiences are going to be alienated though because unfortunately the older a show gets, the more stale and dated its artwork becomes. And sure, this will probably be the same for my viewing-generation in 10-20 years. |
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Opera Floozy
 Posts: 238 |
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As far as the animation goes, I find that there hasn't been too much changes over the decades. As Jen526 noted, we still see much of the same animation shortcuts: characters talking by only moving their mouths, characters speaking while their mouths are hidden or when viewed from the back, speed lines, stock footage, etc.
However, there are other visual aspects of old anime that makes watching them less enjoyable than modern anime. The biggest offender is coloration. Coloration in older anime tends to have one of the following problems: 1. The colors look faded and worn, even though the scene does not call for a faded and worn look: It's fine for an oppressive metropolis like Scrapyard to look faded; it's not fine for Lodoss Island to look the same. 2. The colors are too bright, resulting in a cheap cartoony look reminiscent of elementary school water markers. The principal offenders are the mid-90s fantasy adventure series. Today's anime tend to have crisp colors with good contrast. Only shows that call for a faded, worn setting have such effects added, and except for bright and happy series, the colors are reasonably subdued. Because of this noticeable difference in the colors, I consider any anime made before the proliferation of CG coloring techniques to be older. In other words, any anime from the last millenium is older. |
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