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NEWS: Madman To Release Card Captor Sakura and Rozen Maiden Overture

ohhhhkay.

Even Greg Ayres doesn't know what Animax is...

So i'll make my petition here.

http://www.change.org/petitions/madman-entertainment-release-cardcaptor-sakura-with-animax-english-dubs-and-not-subtitled-only?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=day_four_email

This is amazing news about CCS but damnit why u no Blu-Ray?! I mean, I'll probably buy them anyway, but still

shadee88 wrote:

ohhhhkay. Even Greg Ayres doesn't know what Animax is... So i'll make my petition here. http://www.change.org/petitions/madman-entertainment-release-cardcaptor-sakura-with-animax-english-dubs-and-not-subtitled-only?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=day_four_email

Given the release is now barely a couple of weeks away, it isn't going to change at this point.

jymmy wrote:

This is amazing news about CCS but damnit why u no Blu-Ray?! I mean, I'll probably buy them anyway, but still

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think Madman has ever fully authored their own Blu-Rays... in my experience their discs have always been a carbon copy of whomever they licence off with a Madman logo slapped on the front and some trailers added. So they would have to author their own menus and whatnot, which I have never seen Madman do for a HD anime release.

If not, they are in direct competition with online fansubs.

Such an idiot choice!!! Releasing sub-only when Animax dubbed the show too.

shadee88 wrote:

If not, they are in direct competition with online fansubs.

So? Being in contention with online fansubs certainly hasn't stopped Siren from releasing a constant stream of sub only titles into the market. And judging by how they've grown recently, it must be doing them well.

Society is inherently lazy. When given the choice to either wait a while for free, or pony up some dollars to have it now, they regularly choose the latter. Quite a bit of our economy rides on this laziness.

Plus, there are people who actually want to support the anime industry, and will be purchasing titles on that principal alone. That and the-only-reason-cds-still-exist matter of owning a legal physical copy of a release compared to a disc you just burnt with downloaded files.

shadee88 wrote:

Such an idiot choice!!! Releasing sub-only when Animax dubbed the show too.

There's a very good chance it's contract related why they can't do it.

Animax Asia (who did the dub) only have a license to cover television broadcasting in South East Asia. Unless approval can be sought from both Animax Asia and the Japanese license holders, it will never be nothing more than a pipe dream. And that's assuming Madman went directly from the main Japanese license holder, and not some middle man or America.

It's sort of like Channel 10 wanting to release Channel 9's edition of Big Brother onto DVD. Could it happen? Yes. But would everybody on the way want good money for this favour? Certainly.

In the end, the costs would probably far out-way any benefit of doing so. Plus not to mention the Animax dub is not what we got in Australia, or any native English country to begin with. It may as well be a recording of the series between you and some mates for all that matters.

Oh, and did I mention Animax Asia is owned by Sony Picture Entertainment? Yeah, I don't think I need to say any more as to why it wont happen, at least under Madman's banner.

Then Explain why Funi won't license 2nd season of Kodacha, Big Windup, etc.

Well, Animax asia no longer has the rights to that show. So I wonder what happens there. The dub track just can't sit lying there... ???

I wish I can contact Madman just to make sure. Well, the only way people can watch Animax Dub is by watching recorded copies online.

So. Madman can still try and ask instead of being ignorant.

shadee88 wrote:

Then Explain why Funi won't license 2nd season of Kodacha, Big Windup, etc.

Because they didn't sell well enough to make it profitable.
Believe it or not, companies are in this business to make money.
If a title isn't pulling in a profit, why exactly should they keep releasing it?

Funimation has always had a habit of cutting series half way through for years. They did it twice to DBZ alone, and that title has made them squillions over the years. Cutting their losses is one reason they're so well off financially compared to their rivals.

shadee88 wrote:

Well, Animax asia no longer has the rights to that show. So I wonder what happens there. The dub track just can't sit lying there... ???

Why not? What do you think happens to everything else that gets shown on TV?

Depending on the contract signed, the rights to the dub may still remain Animax Asia's property. But with no license for the series, they can do nothing with them. There's a good chance they had a contract clause covering the use of the dub afterwards, but I would have no idea what that entailed.
Hell, they may have been told to destroy it for all that matters.

shadee88 wrote:

I wish I can contact Madman just to make sure. Well, the only way people can watch Animax Dub is by watching recorded copies online.

http://www.madman.com.au/actions/about.do?pageId=2
Knock yourself out.

The thing is, as I said last reply, the Animax dub is not what we got in Australia. It is not the one people will recognise here. Most people probably don't know that it even exists in the first place.
Plus it wont match the movies which use the US cast and have Madison instead of Tomoyo.

The ideal solution would be to release both the Nelvada and Animax dubs, but have you got a crapton of money to give Madman to make it possible? I don't think so.

shadee88 wrote:

So. Madman can still try and ask instead of being ignorant.

Sony have their own publishing division here, so why let Madman do it when they could release it themselves? Of course Madman's contract likely stops any chance of Sony doing so right now, so barring a lot of money crossing hands, nothing will likely change for another few years.

Honestly though, what makes you think Madman didn't consider it at some stage? Just because it didn't happen?

I'm sure it's gonna happen for CCS too. Since fansubs were there for several years.

I doubt that. They stopped airing Inuyasha (Animax Dub) in 2007, and put it back just now.

Has that even happened before? I doubt that.

Animax is also a programming block on the Sci-Fi Channel in Australia. You'll be surprised with how many Australians know Animax.

Also, another question, Madman was able to get Nelvana Dub Cardcaptors easliy, why not Animax Dubs? What makes them different (in terms of licensing?)

We are aware that Animax do their own dubs for the SE Asian market. We've had a few titles released which use said dubs in the past. Hoop Days (aka Dear Boys) and the Japanese TF series' come to mind, so we can release these if possible. However to date there hasn't been any titles that would warrant such a need.

How can u do that? You have to release them on separate DVDs. Animax Dub is uncut and Nelvana Dubs are heavily edited.

Could you rephrase the above paragraph please?

Because this is the 1st time Madman ever releasing a show sub-only.

BTW, the phone number posted on Madman's website was fake. It led to someone's house.

Also, u don't seem to keen about getting Animax Dubs.

shadee88 wrote:

I'm sure it's gonna happen for CCS too. Since fansubs were there for several years.

CCS is being released here in 2 fatpack collections 3 months apart, not the dozen Funimation split things over.
The first release would have to tank in unbelievable numbers for Madman to not release the second pack.
Considering the fanbase here who didn't manage to import the US release (our dollar wasn't exactly good back then), and those overseas who missed out, you honestly think that's going to happen?

shadee88 wrote:

I doubt that. They stopped airing Inuyasha (Animax Dub) in 2007, and put it back just now. Has that even happened before? I doubt that.

Every series is a different contract. Unless Animax starts re-showing CCS, than you can't prove it right or wrong.
It was a semi sarcastic remark though. In all likelihood they still have the dub, but depending on how they archive, it may not be there forever.

Remember, even NASA overwrote many of their historical tapes

shadee88 wrote:

Animax is also a programming block on the Sci-Fi Channel in Australia. You'll be surprised with how many Australians know Animax.

Are you sure they're using Animax dubs though? The shows they first released with were all licensed here with US dubs, and Animax don't always use their own dubs.

Actually, is Animax even on anymore? The Sci-Fi website doesn't mention anything past 2009, and the only anime they show is now Bebop and Astroboy...

shadee88 wrote:

Also, another question, Madman was able to get Nelvana Dub Cardcaptors easliy, why not Animax Dubs? What makes them different (in terms of licensing?)

That has more to do with how things used to work in the past. For quite a while, Madman used to license their shows from the US companies, therefore being forced to use their gear. CCS unfortunately came about during this time, so naturally Madman licensed it from the US, who naturally gave them their dub.

It'll be of some joy to you though to hear that the sales of Cardcaptors were terrible. They stopped releasing after volume 5 I believe. It did however get a full run on television, but didn't survive long after that.

Now for the most interesting part, and you'll want to read closely. Madman did some years ago change who they licensed anime off. Instead of piggy backing off the US, they licensed straight from Japan. This gave them more options into what they released, and the dubs included.

Now while doing some searching into your questions, I did come across this thread here
More specifically this post:

Slykura from Madman wrote:

We are aware that Animax do their own dubs for the SE Asian market. We've had a few titles released which use said dubs in the past. Hoop Days (aka Dear Boys) and the Japanese TF series' come to mind, so we can release these if possible. However to date there hasn't been any titles that would warrant such a need.

So to answer one of your underlying questions. Yes, Madman have actually used an Animax dub before, and they could again if they wanted to.

Bear in mind however that after I looked further into Hoop Days, the dub was actually done in Canada for Bandai. The reason Slykura said it was Animax is more to do with the fact that it is the same one Animax used on their channel as well, not one they specifically created.

shadee88 wrote:

How can u do that? You have to release them on separate DVDs. Animax Dub is uncut and Nelvana Dubs are heavily edited.

Not exactly. You could just treat the dvd as two halves, one with edited Nelvada, one with uncut Animax, using the menu to switch.
The problem with that simply is that it takes up a lot of space. You would be doubling the video track length, essentially halving the amount of episodes per disc.
Not exactly impossible, but certainly not very attractive.

You could of course just do separate dvd's for each, and just bundle them in the same box for a similar effect.

shadee88 wrote:

Could you rephrase the above paragraph please?

Sony runs a distribution company here in Australia, just like Madman. Essentially, you could think of them as competing companies.
If they have something you want, they can either be nice and just give it to you, ask for a hefty price, or just flat out refuse.

Do you really think Sony to be the type of company who'd hand their property over for nothing?
That leaves either lots of money or refusal.
Now by just approaching them in the first place, Sony now understands somebody out there has an idea to make money with that property.
Knowing that, would you rather still sell it to them and watch them make money, or keep it yourself and have all the funds in your wallet?

shadee88 wrote:

Because this is the 1st time Madman ever releasing a show sub-only.

Incorrect. The success of Siren and Sentai Filmworks in the US has driven them to test the market more than once already.

shadee88 wrote:

BTW, the phone number posted on Madman's website was fake. It led to someone's house.

Sorry to hear that. Madman recently moved their warehouse, so I figured they would have updated their webpage by now.
Try emailing them at [email protected]

shadee88 wrote:

Also, u don't seem to keen about getting Animax Dubs.

Far from it.
I just find it a bit bemusing why someone out there is really wanting this dub to get a release when it never got done for any of the US releases, and no one but fans even know of its existence in the first place.
The only thing really going for it at all is the fact it's uncut.

But honestly, is it such a big deal? I mean, had you not known about the Animax dub, would you still be questioning why there isn't a dub with this release? Is it really going to magically drive sales up that much?

Why do u find it bemusing? Lot of people say some dub is better than no dub. Animax's Cardcaptor is one of the most known Animax Dub compared to the rest. Lot of fans from US, UK, Australia know about it. Lot of people want Animax Dubs.

Not only it's uncut, the voices really matched the personality of the characters, Andrea Kwan sounded so cute when She voiced Sakura Kinimoto, Candace Moore's voice fit Syaoran okay, etc, etc, etc.

I think it'll help the sales. Why not? Some people aren't fond with subtitles so they like to watch the dub. And plus, without dub is just a plain copy of what is available online.

Animax dubs are impossible to find online. I have episodes 1-33, 35, 69 and 70, but can't find anything else. These episodes that I have are very well hidden.

If an uncut dub was available for us to use we would have included it on our set.

shadee88 wrote:

Why do u find it bemusing? Lot of people say some dub is better than no dub. Animax's Cardcaptor is one of the most known Animax Dub compared to the rest. Lot of fans from US, UK, Australia know about it. Lot of people want Animax Dubs.

Yes, having a dub is certainly beneficial for sales, but if Madman can't get it for whatever reason, or it is economically not viable, should they just not ever release the show?

Animax's CCS dub is well known not because it's great, but because it's uncut and follows much more closely to the original Japanese. Had Nelvana or someone in the US done the same, I doubt all of those people would still want the Animax dub.

shadee88 wrote:

Not only it's uncut, the voices really matched the personality of the characters, Andrea Kwan sounded so cute when She voiced Sakura Kinimoto, Candace Moore's voice fit Syaoran okay, etc, etc, etc.

That's subjective. Everybody has different tastes.
I for instance liked most of the Cardcaptors voice cast. And yes, I've heard Animax's too.

shadee88 wrote:

I think it'll help the sales. Why not? Some people aren't fond with subtitles so they like to watch the dub. And plus, without dub is just a plain copy of what is available online.

I agree that people might not be fond of subtitles for some series. I certainly watch dubs way more than subs.

But if a release of a series I want doesn't wind up getting dubbed, and likely wont in the future, I'm not exactly going to not purchase it. As an anime I fan, I owe it to the creators to support them for creating something I like, not ignoring it and saying that until you dub it, I can get the same for free online (the dub of which would ironically wind up on the internet soon after anyway).

shadee88 wrote:

Animax dubs are impossible to find online. I have episodes 1-33, 35, 69 and 70, but can't find anything else. These episodes that I have are very well hidden.

Oh I know they're well hidden. I've only ever seen episodes 1-6 and 70 myself of the Animax dub, and even then the quality was shocking.


Oh, and while doing some more research, I came across this quote on another Madman thread for Cardcaptor Sakura

Slykura wrote:

If an uncut dub was available for us to use we would have included it on our set.

...the plot thickens.
...or a hint to say they were denied.

If an uncut dub was available for us to use we would have included it on our set.

YESSS!!!! This proves me right. They didn't know about Animax dubs. If I let madman know, they'll try and check if Animax will give them.

Animax Asia created an English dub of the series as well entirely unedited and uncut, which it broadcast on its English-language networks in Southeast Asia and South Asia.

shadee88 wrote:

YESSS!!!! This proves me right. They didn't know about Animax dubs. If I let madman know, they'll try and check if Animax will give them.

What in the world does this mean? Do you seriously think that Madman did not know everything they could about the series before they approved to do a sub only release? The very fact they do mostly dub release shows that they would have done a great deal of research into what versions were out there, what the target audience would be, and what was financial.

Madman is not some sort of brainless company that finds something is wanted, and releases it with looking for information, they do their research. Ok I knowing very little about profesional research check Wikipedia (it is easy), and I have got the below.

Wikipedia wrote:

Animax Asia created an English dub of the series as well entirely unedited and uncut, which it broadcast on its English-language networks in Southeast Asia and South Asia.

There it is easy to find out it existed, and it seems impossible to think they could not have found this. You can bet they looked into, and they must have decided that it was not the way to go.

One may exist, but it does not mean that it is available.

Believe me when we say we would of course much prefer to release a bilingual version.

It's not possible, ergo our release will remain uncut in the original Japanese dialogue.

DuskyPredator wrote:

One may exist, but it does not mean that it is available.

Exactly.
You can read the quote two different ways.

One way assuming it isn't available because they didn't know about.
The other assuming it isn't available because they weren't allowed it.


There was also this quote about the release

Slykura wrote:

Believe me when we say we would of course much prefer to release a bilingual version. It's not possible, ergo our release will remain uncut in the original Japanese dialogue.

Obviously you could read this either way again, but the words "it's not possible" certainly more hints to them not being allowed access to it for whatever reason rather than them somehow not knowing it exists.

Considering you yourself shadee88 told me that "Lot of fans from US, UK, Australia know about it. Lot of people want Animax Dubs.", I find it hard to believe a company like Madman with over 100 employees, who probably get requests daily from fans like you for titles to license, have suddenly all forgotten it exists.

And before you call them all idiots again, remember that these guys interact with the Japanese anime scene for a living. There's a good chance they will know about anime titles long before you even hear wind of them. It's their job to find the best materials out there to bring an anime here. Trust me when I say they are some pretty knowledgeable guys.