Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Poke-Matic
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Yumeka
 Posts: 5 Location: California, USA |
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I've been a dedicated Pokemon fan since I first started playing the original GameBoy games in 1999 and my passion hasn't waned since! I've played all the main series games and watched all the episodes/movies of the anime (I stopped watching the dub several years ago but I continue to watch the Japanese version). The only thing I stopped was collecting the cards as I don't have anyone to play with anymore nor the money to spend on them. I used to play the card games at Pokemon leagues held at various shopping centers back in the day.
I love Digimon too and used to watch all the seasons dubbed on TV before watching them in Japanese in recent years. I didn't watch many of the other monster anime mentioned in the article except for Mon Colle Knights. I loved Mon Colle Knights even though Fox didn't treat it well and often skipped episodes in order to broadcast overtime sports. I loved it so much that I even imported one of the VHS and movie DVD. And just FYIs: - The reason Meowth can talk is because, as shown in a certain episode, he actually trained himself to speak "human." Mewtwo, and many other powerful Psychic pokemon can talk because of their psychic abilities. But for the most part, pokemon don't talk, and if one does, there should be a reason for it. - The dubs of the first two movies butchered the original version somewhat. For Movie 1, Mewtwo is portrayed as a nasty villain who wants to rule the world while he has no such ambitions in the Japanese version. The dub even cuts out a long scene at the beginning where we see Mewtwo's actual birth and how the scientist who created him was also trying to clone his daughter. - The "power of one" message in the second movie is actually the total opposite of the Japanese version. The Japanese version was all about how Ash needed help from his friends in order to get through the movie's conflict while the dub emphasized that only he alone can do it. Kind of annoying that they did that. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I think the big thing the English version of Mewtwo Strikes Back gets wrong is the message. In the original it's all about validity of the existence of both Pokemon and their clones. In the English verison it's "FIGHTING IS WRONG", which makes it seem like it contradicts itself, Pokemon being a game all about fighting monsters.
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Jeikobu
 Posts: 154 |
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I disagree with the way the writer of the article is approaching Pokemon. I don't think it's so generic and formulaic as he thinks. I for one remember many of the movies well, and enjoy most of them a lot. Pokemon is and probably always will be my favorite anime. I've grown up on it since it was still the new craze in America, and am very attached to it, with some of my fondest memories in life involving it. It's not just some kid-aimed cash cow involving ambitious kids trying to snare creatures and use them to fight and achieve their goals. To me it celebrates childhood, and of course following your dreams. More than that, though, it's about friendship. Contrary to the writer's possibly not seriously intended remarks about cockfighting and enslaving animals, it's about the forging of bonds with those creatures. Yes, they use them in fights. However, those fights are never meant to become life-threatening. If the writer had seen the first movie, he/she'd see the difference between a normal Pokemon battle and the way the Pokemon and their clones were nearly ripping each other apart in the movie. At the end of the first game, the Professor even remarks that the hero's rival failed because he forgot to treat his Pokemon with love and care. The anime is even stronger on these subjects. I hope I am not coming off to strongly here. I know it's just fiction. I just don't want it to be portrayed as something it's not. And of course, I have a special attachment to Pokemon.
Also, the article says kids like the toys and show, and adults like the satirical humor found online involving it. That may be the writer's opinion, but it's highly untrue for me. I very much dislike cruel humor, and tend to not even enjoy humor that's just making fun of other stuff, depending on what it is. I guess if what the writer said were true, I'm a kid in an adult's body. I want to see Digimon but first someone's going to need to stream or release the first season in the US subbed. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Uh, plenty of Gundam shows are hypocritic too. 00, Unicorn, SEED and SEED Destiny, Endless Waltz, and those are just the AU works. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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My point being that the dub message was NOT the message the original Japanese version was trying to get across. |
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kakoishii
Posts: 741 |
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I don't think you quite understood his criticism. When he talks about how formulaic and generic pokemon is, he's talking about the generic premise (typical shounen hero boy on journey that rounds up monster friends to help him in his plight), and the formulaic plot layout of damn near every episode (Ash and friends runs into other people with problems whom they help and Team Rocket is thrown in for good measure who they stop). I don't believe him to be incorrect in stating that. That's great and all that you're a huge fan, but let's try not to make Pokemon out to be more than what it is. It's not revolutionary, it's just children's programming. |
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Asterisk-CGY
 Posts: 398 |
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My history with these shows was trying to catch early runs Pokemon in its old 6 am time slot. And then getting to school. Never was able to play any of the early gen games with any kind of seriousness, ended up with roms and emulators. Then HS happened and all that faded.
But now that I started Black White back up I really want to grab this gen's game. Cause I still got this DS I need playing. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Actually there is. The second card set "Onslaught of Dragon Souls" just released in America last week. In a couple months we'll get "Invasion of the Demon Marquis"
It's his way of challenging himself. Just like when he uses Pokemon who have a type disadvantage. Iris commented "But Satoshi, water is weak to electricity, use a different Pokemon!" and Satoshi says "Nah, where's the fun in that?" and purposely likes being at a disadvantage because it makes the battles more fun. He's a guy who likes to fight and put limits on himself. Like when he demanded to fight all three Sanyou Gym Leaders when they only said he needed to battle one of them, or when he decided in advance to use three specific Pokemon for the next Gym battle, and when he got there and realized they weren't the best match-ups, he said promised to use those three, so he stuck by his word and used those three. Though for the record, there are OVAs that focus on his Pokemon back at Ookido. They're not boxed up, they roam free on his many acres of land he owns. They even team up to thwart bad guys who come to steal Pokemon in one of them.
Wouldn't a Pokemon Master be someone who empathized and related to his Pokemon and valued their happiness over his own ambitions? Shinji was his anti-thesis in Diamond & Pearl, a kid who viewed Pokemon only as tools, and beat/abuse them when they failed or straight up abandoned them in the wild with his no-failure attitude. That's why I hope they do the N storyline in June when Black and White 2 come out. They'd be great foils for one another. N who views Pokemon as needing to be free from human control to be happy, versus Satoshi who proves Pokemon and humans can both benefit from interacting and their partnership makes both species stronger than they would be alone.
Only two instances I recall people may have complained about is Shinji and Shooty, and it makes sense why he lost both times. 1) Shinji has more experience than him and also participated in other leagues in other regions like he did 2) Pikachu's power was drained from being zapped by Zekrom so all it's moves backfired and caused damage to itself when it fought. Though keep in mind just because he's experience doesn't mean his Pokemon are. If he just caught one and uses it to fight, it's not exactly going to steamroll everything.
I'd need specific instances, but usually Haruka/Hikari were the ones who used their Zukan on older Pokemon, and Satoshi was the one who did the newer ones. Though if he did do it on old ones a few times, and if the last time he used it was in Kanto, then you can easily say more information would have been found since then. Though I do know they like to shoehorn in the dub catchphrase "Who's that Pokemon?", so they might dumb him down in order to do so sometimes.
I think the whole influx of proxy battling shows disagrees. It's pretty much the anime that made the whole concept popular. |
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kakoishii
Posts: 741 |
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Well if that's the case, why not just set them free then? From what I last remember of the who he either doesn't use or rarely uses those pokemon he has stored away, so wouldn't it be better to let them find new trainers to befriend and help on their journies seeing as he's more or less done with them?
So as much as I didn't agree with him giving certain pokemon away, why keep others that he barely uses? That begs the question again, why not just set all of his pokemon free after each region and literally start fresh? Seems like something the presumably compassionate trainer would do.
Those most certainly weren't the instances I was referring to. I stopped watching way before the show got to the generation of pokemon that involve the legendary pokemon Zekrom. Though I agree with you on the experience of the pokemon, in the instances I was referring I'm pretty sure he was using Pikachu to battle. Since he's been his starter since day one, generally he shouldn't have much trouble battling against a novice trainer's team.
That I can't give you, like I said before it's been years since I followed the show and I only vaguely remember the instances I was referring to. I'd have to go back through the Johto and Hoen episodes to figure it out and there's hundreds of episodes just between those two arcs.
It's simply a variant of the proxy of battle type shows that came before it. One that's kind of past it's prime to be honest. Call me when the show becomes as interesting and fun to watch as it was back in the first season. Then we'll talk. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4378 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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for me was the saturday anime block that scifi had in the late 80's. though like you, it was definitely the edited versions of sailor moon and dbz that got me and my sister into anime. However pocket monsters got me completely hooked into the industry in general and wanted me to know anime as a whole and made me into a die hard pokemaniac. though i do have complains about the series. 1) THE CREATOR'S REASONS FOR SKIPPING SOME EPS WHICH ARE NOW KNOWN AS "THE BANNED EPSIODES" ARE PLAIN STUPID!!! 2) did they had to americanize it THAT MUCH? i could understand like in season 1 and all but doing it from Advanced Generation to Best Wishes are bumb beyond words. their OP and ED are ten times better than the english opening. 3) there's no official english sub version or an UNCUT english dub version which will unforunately plays into the hands of fansub groups and illegal streamers. 4) WHY THE HELL IS SATOSHI ( ASH ) IS STILL FREAKING 10 YEARS OLD AFTER 15 YEARS & 5 GENERATIONS OF POKEMON??? it's way too stupid to keep him at that age after all this time. though the biggest gripe me and some people have about the series is this is the series that put the horror that will become 4kids Ent on the map Despite those 4 peeves i have of the series, i'm definitely not going to grow out of the series anytime soon,if ever. though hopefully when the franchise have ended, i would at least have seen an eng dub with the original japaneese scripts as well have seen those infamous so-called banned epsiodes. |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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I really enjoyed Mon Colle Knights during its inital run... I picked up a Mondo pin at a convention and wore it every year for the next half a decade or so. I didn't have Jetix for the second go-around, but I asked about the internet and got someone willing to record the episodes for me and mail me the tapes. I have most of the show thanks to that- I should get my fiance to computer-ize those for me...
I also have 3 Flint the Time Detective DVDs from rightstuf, that was a cute show- I still get that 'hoom-ba, hoom-ba, hoom-ba!' theme stuck on my head from time to time. You know what show I liked that no one ever brings up? Fighting Foodons. You basically had to cook your Pokemon- weird stuff. Awesomely weird stuff. I think I have 2, maybe 3 episodes on some old junk tapes. I should get my fiance to upload those, too! 
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Joe Carpenter
 Posts: 503 |
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I'm sorry to say that Pokemon was one of the first anime I ever saw
I was never really into the card game or the video games, I mostly just watched the anime, I saw the first two movies in theaters and again I am sorry to say that to this day it's still the only anime I've ever seen in a movie theater unlike most things from my childhood I look back on Pokemon mostly with embarrassment than nostalgia, I mean I guess a little nostalgia because after all I did used to be really into it, but it's something I don't think I'd ever want to watch again what I really credit with getting me into anime though is Dragon Ball Z |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Pokemon, Digimon, Monster Rancher... nostalgic shows, but I don't really consider myself a fan of any of them anymore.
When they first started showing on tv I think I watched Pokemon and Digimon religiously for a while. I'm pretty certain I've seen all if not most of the episodes from the first seasons of both. I remember Digimon having the better storyline, but Pokemon was the one I was more into at the time. I played the card game (and collected the cards - I remember my happiest moment being the time I finally got Charizard) and the Gameboy Red version (on my old, thick brick Gameboy). I even got the Pokemon Snap on my N64. By the time the first Pokemon movie came to theaters my interest was starting to wane, though I did find the movie enjoyable (I went with a friend and we had the entire theater to ourselves). But by the time the second movie came around I was pretty much done with the franchise. I remember thinking the movie was stupid and corny, and I was embarassed for seeing it in theaters. The formula for the tv show was getting old and boring as well. I never ended up finishing the Red version - I got to Articuno and was determined to have him and swore to myself that I wouldn't move on until I caught the damn bird. 10+ years later and I still don't have him (though that's mostly because I haven't played in 10+ years). I think I had one Ultra ball (or whatever the name of the 2nd highest ball is), but throwing it even after I got Articuno to his lowest still wouldn't capture him. After X number of tries I just gave up. Digimon was even shorter. Once TK and Kairi grew up, I was all, "Nope, not interested in a different cast of characters." And so I dropped it. I'm pretty much the same with all long-running franchises that switch the casts up. I get attached to a certain cast, and once they're gone my interest wanes. It doesn't help that I get tired of the formulas for the long-running series; removing the cast I'm attached to is just the final nail in the coffin usually. Overall, good memories. But I don't see myself getting back into the franchises again. Maybe for old times sake I'll rewatch some of the earliest episodes. |
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Shinmigumi
 Posts: 17 Location: North Dakota |
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1.Fifteen years later, are you still watching Pokémon? 2.Did you like Digimon better? 3.Did you go for one of the lesser-known shows like Monster Rancher or Duel Masters, or were you like me, and vaguely mystified by the entire affair? Sound off in the comments!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. no 2. Kind of 3.yes and yes |
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Kidnicky
Posts: 79 |
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I was too old to really be into these kinds ofshows,but hey,they were Japanese animation at a time when you couldn't just stream or torrent anything you wanted. I remember really liking Monster Rancher,but I can't remember anything about it.
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