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REVIEW: Infinite Stratos + Encore Blu-Ray


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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:37 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
RyanSaotome, how old are you? I ask because if you are not yet an adult then I will sigh in exasperation but at least I can hold onto the hope that you will someday understand what a plot hole is and why what happens in the Light Novels has no bearing at all to the Anime. If however you are already an adult then I bid you adieu. And that's about the nicest possible way I can put it.


I guess not knowing what happened to Lukes father in "A New Hope" is a plot hole in your mind. Since everything HAS to be explained right away.

One of the best ways to tell a story is to add suspense by keeping the reader in the dark about certain important plot points. Just asking the studio to make up something just to add to the anime does the franchise a disservice, and like I said, ruins potential sequels since then they might have to retcon the story or not even do sequels since they messed up the story enough in the first anime. Zero no Tsukaima is a great example of a story that ended up making no sense in the anime since JC Staff decided to take liberties with the story instead of adapting the light novel story correctly.


dtm42 wrote:
First of all you didn't answer my question, but whatever. If you're the same guy as on Crunchyroll then the PM I received tells me your age is twenty-six. Groan. Fine, I will not bid ou farewell but continue on.

Secondly it seems as if no-one ever told you that A New Hope got a sequel.

I should not have to go to the Light Novels or the Manga or play the video games to fill in a plot hole. Using Gundam SEED as an example, I should not have to read a side-Manga to find out how in the Anime series the protagonist Kira Yamato survived a point-black explosion and ended up nearly three hundred thousand kilometres away in a single episode. A televised sequel to a televised series is however fine. If Infinite Stratos got a second season and it was explained why all previous IS pilots were female, then it would stop being a plot hole anymore.


Come on guys, can't we all be friends here? Seriously, do you all enjoy tearing each other apart?

Lemme make this clear now - plot holes are bad, but if they don't get in the way of story-telling and/or the overall enjoyment of a series, then it can be overlooked.

And before you even start dtm42, why does a series HAVE to make sense? There may be plot holes that can make something seem utterly ridiculous, but should that stop you from enjoying something? No, it doesn't. It shouldn't.

And RyanSaotome, you do have a point in your argument, but please, don't use Star Wars in your arguments. We have enough of that in Crunchyroll for Arceus' sake.

Jeez, this is why we need more mediators in forums.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:52 am Reply with quote
KentaMaeba wrote:
Lemme make this clear now - plot holes are bad, but if they don't get in the way of story-telling and/or the overall enjoyment of a series, then it can be overlooked.


And if the plot holes do affect the series in a negative way? What then?

KentaMaeba wrote:
And before you even start dtm42...


You should have said that in the first place.

KentaMaeba wrote:
...why does a series HAVE to make sense?


Series don't have to make sense. Ever watch Cromartie High School? I love that show, and the fact that a mute Freddie Mercury, a grown gorilla and a suave robot are students at the school doesn't bother me one bit.

No, series don't have to make sense . . . if they want to be taken seriously. In the above example Freddie Mercury being at a Japanese highschool is not a plot hole or instance of bad writing, it is a comedic device that uses the contrast between the absurd presence of the lead singer of Queen (who has been dead for years) in a somewhat realistic school setting to humourous effect. However, when Ichika walks in on his Tsundere childhood friend and she attacks him while calling him a pervert, that isn't a comedic device, that's just plain stupidity that makes me think Light Novel writers have an average age of thirteen. Wait, that's insulting to thirteen-year-olds . . .

KentaMaeba wrote:
There may be plot holes that can make something seem utterly ridiculous, but should that stop you from enjoying something? No, it doesn't. It shouldn't.


If something is crappily written then of course I'm not going to derive enjoyment from it. Would you smell sewer water and think to yourself, "Hmm, that smells awful, but the stench alone shouldn't stop me from enjoying it." Of course not. Why do you expect me to do the same with Anime? This is an entertainment medium. If the characters are brain-dead stupid and the plot makes about as much sense as if it were written by chicken pecking at random keys, then it isn't going to be of good quality. And if the quality sucks then it will be unbearable, because I watch Anime to be entertained, and bad writing is like kryptonite to someone with actual standards.

Let me try a different tack. If a show is badly written, then why should I like it? What is actually there for me to enjoy? Nothing, usually. And if a show has nothing to offer then watching clouds for five hours is a more productive (and way less stressful) use of my time.

KentaMaeba wrote:
And RyanSaotome, you do have a point in your argument, but please, don't use Star Wars in your arguments. We have enough of that in Crunchyroll for Arceus' sake.


No, RyanSaotome's argument does not have point. Not a valid one at any rate. Of course shows and movies should keep cards close to their chests, but that doesn't mean they should never reveal those cards except in another work in an entirely different entertainment medium.

As for Infinite Stratos, no-one said that an adaptation had to be made then and there. The show could have been made once sufficient source material had been released so that the adaptation could cover the issue of why only females could pilot the machines until Ichika.

And if the show really had to be made in Winter 2011 and no later than that, then the issue of the gender gap is still a plot hole in the Anime. It is a hole of obviously missing and very important information which has not been filled in by the Anime itself. It is not a plot hole in the Light Novels but that doesn't mean diddly squat because are not talking about the Light Novels.

The only way plot holes can be filled in by works in another entertainment medium is if the franchise is deliberately built that way such as .hack, where it is expected that - to get the full picture of what is happening and why - you will play the games and watch the Anime and read the Manga or whatever. A simple adaptation of an existing work such as Infinite Stratos does not have that luxury and must stand on its own two feet.

I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you, it's basic stuff.


Last edited by dtm42 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:07 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
And if the plot holes do affect the series in a negative way? What then?


Keyword being "enjoyment", which is entirely dependent on a viewer's perspective. You can't blame someone for enjoying something despite apparent plot holes. Therefore, it should only make sense that what's negative is dependent on said viewer too.

dtm42 wrote:
Series don't have to make sense. Ever watch Cromartie High School? I love that show, and the fact that a mute Freddie Mercury, a grown gorilla and a suave robot are students at the school doesn't bother me one bit.


Ok, you know that.

dtm42 wrote:
However, when Ichika walks in on his Tsundere childhood friend and she attacks him while calling him a pervert, that isn't a comedic device, that's just plain stupidity that makes me think Light Novel writers have an average age of thirteen. Wait, that's insulting to thirteen-year-olds . . .


Hey, people still find that funny (myself included), so its not really a big deal.

dtm42 wrote:
If something is crappily written then of course I'm not going to derive enjoyment from it. Would you smell sewer water and think to yourself, "Hmm, that smells awful, but the stench alone shouldn't stop me from enjoying it." Of course not. Why do you expect me to do the same with Anime? This is an entertainment medium. If the characters are brain-dead stupid and the plot makes about as much sense as if it were written by chicken pecking at random keys, then it isn't going to be of good quality. And if the quality sucks then it will be unbearable, because I watch Anime to be entertained, and bad writing is like kryptonite to someone with actual standards.

Let me try a different tack. If a show is badly written, then why should I like it? What is actually there for me to enjoy? Nothing, usually. And if a show has nothing to offer then watching clouds for five hours is a more productive (and way less stressful) use of my time.


Riddle me this; why does Infinite Stratos have such a huge following? Why do people enjoy it? Why are there so many fans? Why do fans even bother defending it? Because of all this, there is some merit to be found in this particular series. And this goes for all other anime series out there too.

You find the writing to be horrible, the concept weak, and the story filled with inconsistent plot holes and cardboard characters. That's your perspective. No matter how hard you explain and justify your reasons for it being so, and no matter how much you hate this series, it'll always be what you think based on your personal biases and what your personal standards are.

And I can understand that. I'm perfectly fine with it. What I can't stand is you dictating your opinion as truth or fact, and then finding excuses to insult others or proving them wrong just because they disagree.

To begin with, who gave you the right to declare what's pure crap? Who made you the final arbiter of what's good and what's bad? Is it really hard to accept that other people may like or love this anime? That they may have good reasons why or that they can overlook any flaws an anime has? That they may have other tastes?

"Actual standards"? Don't kid yourself. Everyone has their own standards. What seems like crap to you, may be a treat for others. It's simply not your place to judge them because of it.

dtm42 wrote:
No, RyanSaotome's argument does not have point. Not a valid one at any rate. Of course shows and movies should keep cards close to their chests, but that doesn't mean they should never reveal those cards except in another work in an entirely different entertainment medium.

As for Infinite Stratos, no-one said that an adaptation had to be made then and there. The show could have been made once sufficient source material had been released so that the adaptation could cover the issue of why only females could pilot the machines until Ichika.

And if the show really had to be made in Winter 2011 and no later than that, then the issue of the gender gap is still a plot hole in the Anime. It is a hole of obviously missing and very important information which has not been filled in by the Anime itself. It is not a plot hole in the Light Novels but that doesn't mean diddly squat because are not talking about the Light Novels.

The only way plot holes can be filled in by works in another entertainment medium is if the franchise is deliverately built that way such as .hack, where it is expected that - to get the full picture of what is happening and why - you will play the games and watch the Anime and read the Manga or whatever. A simple adaptation of an existing work such as Infinite Stratos does not have that luxury and must stand on its own two feet.

I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you, it's basic stuff.


RyanSaotome's argument does have point. Are you really that ignorant that you can't see it? He or she has an understanding of not just what a plot hole is, but how the execution of an adapted story should work, and why many studios failed at doing so. As an aspiring story-writer, I'm proud that someone like RyanSaotome can understand.

And then you went on to insult not only his/her post, but his/her intelligence and age. Just how old are you anyways? That was completely rude and uncalled for.

Everything you said after is what you consider "basic stuff", but that's only part of it. I don't need you explain all that to me as I already knew beforehand. Once again, you are being utterly rude by insulting my intelligence.

Maybe you don't realize this, but Infinite Stratos is able to stand on its own. You don't need to read the Light Novels - you can just sit back and watch and enjoy the anime. Plot hole or not, it doesn't change that fact that you can still enjoy watching it. Besides, its inevitably going to get a sequel anyways.
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scineram



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Green Hell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:56 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

Of course it is a plot hole of the Anime. The Anime should be a self-contained unit, I shouldn't have to go read the Light Novels just to find out what the hell is going on.

If the Anime doesn't explain why males are incapable of piloting them then that is a plot hole in the show. End of story.

Just wtf is the Force? Thankfully the midichlorians finally filled that gigantic plot hole.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3186
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:58 am Reply with quote
Cool story, bros.

Hope this sells as well as it did in Japan. I really like the BD+CD idea.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:01 am Reply with quote
KentaMaeba wrote:
Besides, its inevitably going to get a sequel anyways.


Yes, because people like you watch it. Because Otaku buy this crap in droves. Because the world isn't fair. Because good is so often not rewarded while bad so often is. Because the concept of 'fairness' does not actually exist.

Until you actually learn to have some standards and can perceive Anime as they are as opposed to what you want them to be, then of course I'm going to judge you. Of course I'm going to talk down to you.

Right now you're just a clueless guy on the net who thinks trash is good and everything is relative and can't understand why people call you out on your beliefs.

Come back when you've grown up. Then we'll talk again. Right now there's little point in continuing to have dialogue with you. Goodnight.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:17 am Reply with quote
Hey Key, thanks for encouraging this kind of behaviour on dtm42's part like you did yesterday. You are a wonderful moderator and just an all-round super-intelligent guy!
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:54 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Hey Key, thanks for encouraging this kind of behaviour on dtm42's part like you did yesterday. You are a wonderful moderator and just an all-round super-intelligent guy!


Because he's the hero anime community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. He's dtm42

Sorry, but I had to do this.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:04 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Hey Key, thanks for encouraging this kind of behaviour on dtm42's part like you did yesterday. You are a wonderful moderator and just an all-round super-intelligent guy!


Because he's the hero anime community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. He's dtm42

Sorry, but I had to do this.


Laughing No need to apologize. When it comes to dtm42, I welcome all levity.
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:37 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Yes, because people like you watch it. Because Otaku buy this crap in droves. Because the world isn't fair. Because good is so often not rewarded while bad so often is. Because the concept of 'fairness' does not actually exist.

Until you actually learn to have some standards and can perceive Anime as they are as opposed to what you want them to be, then of course I'm going to judge you. Of course I'm going to talk down to you.

Right now you're just a clueless guy on the net who thinks trash is good and everything is relative and can't understand why people call you out on your beliefs.

Come back when you've grown up. Then we'll talk again. Right now there's little point in continuing to have dialogue with you. Goodnight.


You're pretty rude, you know that? It's something I've noticed in these forums whenever you're involved. You seem to think you know everything and are always right. You can't stand the fact that others may be different and that you may be in the wrong.

"Learn to have some standards"? I speak for every anime fan out there when I say we'll all watch what we want to watch. Like I said before, everyone has different standards and different tastes. You do not have the right to judge them because of it. Or do you honestly believe that your tastes and standards make you above everyone else?

The reality is, you're not above anyone. Your standards don't make you right, nor do they make you some sort of special, important figure. As much as you deny it or try to justify yourself, you'll never be anything more than yourself - arrogant beyond belief, ignorant, closed-minded, and painfully biased. At the end of the day, you're just another delusional, conceited brat.

But, hey! It's fine and all. I'm "Just a clueless guy". And I know I'm naive, but at least I have some basic human decency.

dtm42 wrote:
Until you actually learn to have some standards and can perceive Anime as they are as opposed to what you want them to be, then of course I'm going to judge you.


And this. I perceive anime as an artistic medium. I prefer that you don't make such callous assumptions, thank you very much.
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1219
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:37 pm Reply with quote
I like how someone's hate for the series leads to this. A discussion for the review is not meant for a flame war about how much someone loved the show, and how much someone hated the show and wished it died in a fire.

Seriously, why must this keep happening? Didn't this stuff happen in other places with dtm42 being the starter?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:45 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
completely out of control ego


Hokay, time for you to take a few months off. See you in the summer.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:52 pm Reply with quote
As ascerbic as he was, I tended to agree with DTM...but he did tend to act holier-than-thou.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3819
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:52 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
I like how someone's hate for the series leads to this. A discussion for the review is not meant for a flame war about how much someone loved the show, and how much someone hated the show and wished it died in a fire.

Seriously, why must this keep happening? Didn't this stuff happen in other places with dtm42 being the starter?


maybe i added a little fuel to fire with the whole "only females can pilot set up by the government/scientist". I think that i will personally take a big of break my-self...
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:07 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
I like how someone's hate for the series leads to this. A discussion for the review is not meant for a flame war about how much someone loved the show, and how much someone hated the show and wished it died in a fire.

Seriously, why must this keep happening? Didn't this stuff happen in other places with dtm42 being the starter?


It's mostly my fault actually. I was trying to mediate the discussion, but dtm refused to quit and I lost my cool. I really need work out better strategies.

You're definitely right about dtm, though - seems like his mere presence sparks flame wars.
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