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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 2462
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:17 am Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
I know that this is a old post, but Dragon Maid feels like a typical kid friendly moe series similar to K-On going from what I've watch of it.

To be honest, I thought Demi-chan wa Kataritai was more "mature" than Kobayashi-san despite being set in a high school. There were annoying pedo aspects to the latter that seemed entirely out-of-place given the rest of the story (though I assume they were just following the lead of the manga-ka). While the premise in Demi-chan was silly, the show handled the issues facing Succubus-sensei in a complicated and interesting way. I ended up giving Demi-chan a higher score at MAL as a result.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1423
Location: Serra Gaucha/Minnesota
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
Jose Cruz wrote:

In fact I believe we now have hit the peak number of actual adult anime made: stuff like Space Brothers, Hyouge Mono, Kobayashi's Dragon Maid was very rare 20 years ago.
.


I know that this is a old post, but Dragon Maid feels like a typical kid friendly moe series similar to K-On going from what I've watch of it. Hyouge Mono and Space Brothers are good series for grown ups and they would not be that rare like 20-30 years ago. We did had titles like Ghost in the Shell, Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise, Gunsmith Cats, Crying Freeman, Armored Trooper Votoms, Serial Experiments Lain, Yawara! and many others in the 80's & 90's.


K-On! is actually aimed at as old or older audience than Ghost in the Shell, Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise, Gunsmith Cats, Crying Freeman, Armored Trooper Votoms, Serial Experiments Lain, Yawara!, that's because K-On! is directly aimed at adult animation nerds. Same with Dragon Maid.

While Armored Trooper Votoms is rated as "kodomo manga", that is, aimed at younger readers than Naturo is. While stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise, Gunsmith Cats, Crying Freeman and Serial Experiments Lain are aimed at young adults, aged 18 to 30. There are lots of manga/anime aimed at older audiences than those titles.

Stuff like Monster, Space Brothers and Hyouge Mono are aimed at people over the age of 30. I.e. not-young adults, as the readers of the magazines where these titles were published are usually older than 30. And Kobayashi's Dragon Maid looks like something aimed at people around the age of 25-35, slightly older audience than the titles you mentioned: it's aimed at people like Kobayashi-san, a person around the age of 30 who has several friends which already have kids. The appeal on calm slice of life comedy is also more apparent for older people than sex and violence in titles like Ghost in the Shell and Gunsmith Cats, which to me appeal more to young adults.

Yawara! is the exception among titles you mentioned as it's published on Big Comic Spirits which is aimed at people around the age of 30.

Anyway, my point is the following: by the 1980's manga became mainstream among adults in Japan (including adults over the age of 30), however, animation was still mostly reserved for kids: the manga adapted into animation was mainly shounen and shoujo's manga. By the late 1980's and 1990's many more complex, sexualized and violent anime was being made thanks to the OVAs and it's public expanded to teenagers and young adults. However, its only recently that anime titles made for not-young adults have become more common, titles like Hyouge Mono, the last films of Miyazaki and Takahata, Space Brothers, Planetes, etc. That's stuff that I can recommend to my parents who are nearly 60 years old. The 1990's stuff like Utena, Berserk, Cowboy Bebop and Lain is more suited to 20 years olds rather than 60 years olds. I think that only some Ghibli films like Grave of the Fireflies and Only Yesterday are good for my parents to watch, among the anime I know made before the year 2000.

Quote:
I do remember how I was surprise that something like Psycho Pass did very well in today's fandom given how most modern anime and manga fans seem to be mostly into Shonen from what I've seen. I remember in 2006 when hardly anyone talk about Kemonozume and everyone was into Death Note, Bleach, Naruto, Haruhi Suzumiya, One Piece and Ouran High School Host Club that year.


You mean North American fans? That's because North American fans are mainly teenagers and young adults. Japanese otaku are substantially older than North American anime fans as the average age of otaku going to Comiket is 29.

Anyway, when talking about fandom you should understand that the NA fandom is not the original public any of these titles were made for anyway.
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Set1229



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Pretty sure someone will send me to Hell for this (via Ai Enma), but saying it anyway.

In some cases, I don't mind the edits in some cut dubs. I admit it, I love the cheese factor.

Mr. Green Run together in the sun, we're gonna have some fun, fun, fun! Mr. Green

The cheese is great for when you just need to turn off your brain and just have some fun, fun, fun.

Admittedly, some censors don't click with me.

At the end of the day, if a cut dub can be loads of fun, that's all that matters.

No one should discriminate against those just trying to enjoy the campiness of many cut dubs.


The whole deconstruction trend isn't my can of soda. If it's done in a way that's fun, that's fine, but if it's mostly doom and gloom, that's boring.

I think some anime in need of more episodes are Shigofumi: Stories of Last Letter and Mythical Detective Loki


And here's another fun one. Saying food terms in place of swear words can be tons of fun, when you work at a restaurant! Thank you Funimation for teaching me this wonderful art, through Toriko![/i]
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1320
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Mihoshi Special and Pretty Sammy are both crackfics made into anime. Whether that's good or bad is up to the viewer, but I personally thought it was a funny joke that dragged on a bit too long.

One Piece is the best anime of the big 3 in terms of objective quality. Bleach and Naruto both had relatively good starts before falling off somewhere after the main antagonists are established whereas One Piece started off slow, yet good, and only got better over time.

It is completely shallow to refuse to watch an anime based on art-style, the quality or absence of an English Dub, the age of the anime, or whether or not the main character is your preferred gender.

The Berserk movies are great.

Assassination Classroom season 2 and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 4 were the best anime of 2016.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 7827
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:
Quote:
It is completely shallow to refuse to watch an anime based on art-style, the quality or absence of an English Dub, the age of the anime, or whether or not the main character is your preferred gender.


It is completely pointless, and shows a lack of self confidence, to watch anything you don't like simply because others think you should. Anime is entertainment. If a given show is not entertaining to you, screw it. Watching shows just because others have declared them "important" or "classic" is a good way to end up burnt out.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1320
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:28 pm Reply with quote
Not "TRYING" a show. Better wording now?
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:31 pm Reply with quote
Much better, but it depends on what you mean by "Trying". It is not always necessary to actually watch a portion of a show to know how you will like it. Sometimes simply investigating the concept of the show as shown in the initial blurb is enough to rule it out. For instance, for me, any serious mention of "the end of the world" or the pairing of the words "dark" and "magical girl" is enough to set a show aside. Usually there will be enough forum chatter about any good show to know if that was a mistake.

Given the number of shows that come out each season, there isn't enough time in the day to watch a few episodes of each one. And that doesn't take into account all the old stuff that is or will become available. You need a filtering system to stave off insanity or burnout.

Note that this doesn't necessarily apply to recommendations from friends in real life. With those you should either try the show or explain why it is not for you.
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Set1229



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:25 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
Much better, but it depends on what you mean by "Trying". It is not always necessary to actually watch a portion of a show to know how you will like it. Sometimes simply investigating the concept of the show as shown in the initial blurb is enough to rule it out. For instance, for me, any serious mention of "the end of the world" or the pairing of the words "dark" and "magical girl" is enough to set a show aside. Usually there will be enough forum chatter about any good show to know if that was a mistake.

Given the number of shows that come out each season, there isn't enough time in the day to watch a few episodes of each one. And that doesn't take into account all the old stuff that is or will become available. You need a filtering system to stave off insanity or burnout.

Note that this doesn't necessarily apply to recommendations from friends in real life. With those you should either try the show or explain why it is not for you.

Yes, finally someone else understands that sub-genre alone can be a turn-off!
You get 4 cookies!
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Why, thank you. Smile
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 13067
Location: Chora's Den
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:39 pm Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:

It is completely shallow to refuse to watch an anime based on art-style, the quality or absence of an English Dub, the age of the anime, or whether or not the main character is your preferred gender.

Why is it shallow? Regardless if you mean refuse to watch or refuse to try. Either way. People having tastes and preferences mean they are shallow now? I find inferring that a person has to try something or they are shallow is a bit rude and shallow in itself. Why should someone HAVE to try something? To simply placate some internet authority or the masses because the show was deemed "awesome" by other people? People know there own tastes and likes/dislikes. They know what art style, companies, actors, etc they like and what they don't. They might be limiting themselves but that's their right. Simply doing that does not make them shallow. Plus as Alan said with the sheer volume of what is available why should they spend some of their precious time forcing themselves to even try something when it goes against what they like?

Now, refusing to watch or read something for specific reasons and then trying to comment about how that particular style, product, or whatever is somehow inferior to something else is a different matter.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1320
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:51 pm Reply with quote
^

Right, right. I meant to include the latter part. See, I know a dude who refuses to watch Shiki because "The art style is silly and its trying too hard to be dark." Now, he just assumes the latter based on what little he's heard about the show, but refuses to watch it. Keep in mind, this person has seen other shows that contain art styles he is not fond of, like JoJo and One Piece. For some reason, he not only refuses to watch Shiki, but makes harsh judgments about it in spite of a lack of knowledge.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1423
Location: Serra Gaucha/Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
People know there own tastes and likes/dislikes.


Not really. People do not know almost anything about the world. Ignorance about everything is the rule. So, people do not know what they like and dislike because their knowledge is extremely limited.

People know only a small very limited set of movies/shows/books/music they know and usually just consume the stuff they know it's the same as they stuff they already consumed. They aesthetic experience exist in a state of perpetual stasis. As if they were not living, evolving beings, but aesthetically dead.

However, I learned that since I don't know what I might like or dislike, since I don't know it before I consume it. For instance, I never expected that I would love Simoun so much before watching it while I didn't expect to find Acchi Kocchi so boring. To me each show un-watched is a black box, you don't know it hence you don't know if you will like it or not. And in the case of anime the variance in quality between shows of the similar premises can be enormous: compare Simoun with Strike Witches. It's impossible for me to know beforehand if I will like or dislike something based on premise.

And there is also the so called "evolution" of taste in the sense that as you absorb more art you also learn to like things while you also learn to dislike other things. The evolution of your taste cannot be precisely anticipated as well. A few years ago I wondered why people could watch K-On! but now I love it.

Also, the "3-episode rule" didn't apply to some shows I ended up loving. Legend of Galactic Heroes, for instance, grew on me quite slowly over it's 110 episodes.

Usually, however, I try to watch stuff that other people though it was great and I don't limit myself to genres although there are genres I like more than others. Usually I like more science fiction and moe stuff, while I dislike mechas but yet I have 3 mecha shows among my top favorite shows of all time. However, there is plenty of stuff people though it was great and I didn't care for that much (Anohaha for instance).
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Aylinn



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 1678
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:00 am Reply with quote
I think you are talking about something a bit different.

Yes, you don’t know if you will like something until you try it out, but knowing your tests assumes that you have tried certain genre, etc. and you didn’t like it.

For example, someone might have tried out series with romance or political intrigue and realized that these things do absolutely nothing for them and just bore them to death no matter how praised and well-acclaimed are series with these elements. In such case it makes perfect sense that someone steers clear of series where the main focus and appeal is romance or political intrigue.

And there are series that may have elements that you both like and dislike, so whether you end up liking them may depend on execution and how much focus these elements you like and dislike get.

Certain amount of self-reflection is necessary to know this, so I agree that there are people who have poor idea what they may like and simply watch something, because someone else told them that series A is great.
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Unicorn_Blade



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1107
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Jose Cruz wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
People know there own tastes and likes/dislikes.


Not really. People do not know almost anything about the world. Ignorance about everything is the rule. So, people do not know what they like and dislike because their knowledge is extremely limited.

People know only a small very limited set of movies/shows/books/music they know and usually just consume the stuff they know it's the same as they stuff they already consumed. They aesthetic experience exist in a state of perpetual stasis. As if they were not living, evolving beings, but aesthetically dead.


That's a bit of a generalisation- are you talking about some generic anonymous people. people you know, your family and friends?

I know where you are coming from, as in general there is a group of people who don't like to try out new things, but there are also a lot who do.

I dislike comedies as a medium in general. Have not seen many which actually made me laugh.I don't exclude anime comedies from the menu, but if I have a choice between a show in the genre I favour and a comedy, and both seem good, I will probably will go for the first, unless it looks absolutely rubbish, in which case might go for the latter. I tried comedies, most did not work. I base my choice on preferences and make an informed choice.
I dislike certain actors on screen and avoid films with them- does that make me limited as a viewer? Don't think so.
I know a friend who is a film critic. He has seen thousands of films and I would not call him ignorant in this matter, or his knowledge limited. He strongly dislikes anime, not matter how good. It does not work for him. He can't feel the emotion from animated characters. He has seen so many, and gave up.
I understand in a way why people tend to stick to certain genres or whatever-not always because of lack of knowledge- life is just too short and we don't have unlimited amount of time to convince ourselves to watch things we tend not to like. Taste evolution aside, if I find something in poor taste, it's not that likely I will love it five years down the line. If someone hates horrors, why drag yourself through unpleasant screenings. If mecha anime does not interest you, there is a wealth of other good anime to watch. tastes do not really have to limit us.
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Usagi-kun
Collector ExtraordinaireCollector Extraordinaire


Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 534
Location: Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:54 pm Reply with quote
I don't like sparkly vampires. I like evil, bloodthirsty monsters. I think they have a lot more personality and motivations that are less predictable. There has also never been any sex appeal for me in either form, though. I get annoyed with romantic subplots, humans making any sort of moral justification for their behavior, or thinking they can control such forces and somehow come out victorious in the end. They are monsters. They do bad things, fight wars with other monsters that leave everyone else caught in the crossfire. I would not have them have any interest in humans other than the obvious, and I don't like rapey stuff within that context either. I understand that for an actual sense of empathy or interest from the viewer, there must be something appealing and relatable about these characters, but I prefer bloody, unspeakably monstrous entities devoid of any emotional weakness or sympathy.

So essentially, there is no perfect vampire for me. Hellsing came the closest and Castlevania looks promising. Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust was also a nice attempt by spoiler[at least making D a conflicted and isolated character with genetics in both vampire and human worlds, but an outcast in both.]

I am not angry in this. I think I might be looking for too extreme of a characterization that might not exist in anime. If I write my own vampire story, I'll erase any of my doubts and give something so much evil that it defies any sense of justification and motivations for a monster in the truest sense of the word. Twisted Evil

tl;dr Let monsters be monsters and scrape away the brooding, loneliness, and any remaining human elements. Please recommend any other series if you can think of one!

Edit: Ahhh, I forgot about Shiki. That was was a slow burn, but the payoff was amazing!
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