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REVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Vol. 2 Blu-Ray


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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:08 am Reply with quote
HAHA same here! The colors on both discs are also so nice and solid now. Madokas dress on volume one looked like someone tagged it with a MS Paint spray can or something.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:51 am Reply with quote
luffypirate85 wrote:
HAHA same here! The colors on both discs are also so nice and solid now. Madokas dress on volume one looked like someone tagged it with a MS Paint spray can or something.


Forget the disk with Madoka. Mami seemed to be so close up, the outline on her was blurry. I noticed it immediately after opening up the first disc case.
I think it might have been printer quality, though. At least on my discs, even the flat background color and logo were slightly pixelized in the first volume.

Thankfully, the newer discs looks extremely clear and crisp. It's more than I can even say for a lot of my Japanese BD's and DVD's...

(lol I always wondered what point there was to analyzing the crispness of printing quality on discs I barely ever look at directly... but I can't help myself.)
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Animerican14



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
luffypirate85 wrote:
wrote:
HAHA same here! The colors on both discs are also so nice and solid now. Madokas dress on volume one looked like someone tagged it with a MS Paint spray can or something.

Forget the disk with Madoka. Mami seemed to be so close up, the outline on her was blurry. I noticed it immediately after opening up the first disc case.

Bah, the discs don't matter!

... Okay, yeah, it was great that the DVD got higher-res art this time around. But, I'm still annoyed that there ended up being extra fogginess on the BD/DVD keepcase compared to the standard DVD keepcase, in the end... guess the one fan that harped on about this aesthetic issue ever since the covers' reveal wasn't enough, heh. I was really hoping it was just a lazy photoshop edit or mistake, though.



Veers wrote:
[...] That said, unless I was really misunderstanding what's going on from what you said, I've got my doubts about whether getting a more complete perspective is going to change my opinion on this, heh, mostly for reasons you mused upon in your second paragraph.

Wait, you have the same concerns as I do about the Important Concepts actually not being used in the future in their most important contexts, that there'll continue to be some 'watering down'/rewriting of the thematic content in the dub script? I was hoping someone would reassure me that my fears were irrational! Razz
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:04 pm Reply with quote
I finally watched all four episodes in English!

I think I still hold the same opinion as what I said before. I took the scene in stride and it didn't exactly flow bad--it was still an effectively emotional scene--but the particular words Sayaka used in the critical scene upset me: spoiler["good" and "bad" in the English dub replacing "hope" and "despair" from the Japanese version.]
They seem like they're dumbed-down versions of the original themes. And in a dub where nearly all the lines are almost literal translations from the Japanese, I don't see why they would feel the need to do this to these specific terms. They ARE a critical point to the meaning of the series. They should not have been generalized like that.
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Veers



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Last night I sat down and finished the English dub of volume two, as well!

I agree with Juno and stand by what I said.

As a side note, regarding the dub in general, I really felt like this volume hit stride better than volume one. It retained a high level of faithfulness to the original script (aside from the changes we've been discussing here) and seemed to be delivered better. I'm not sure if I'm just getting used to the voices or if it's because the characters finally get to be emotional in these episodes or what, but it seemed better than volume one. I still feel like there's not enough distinction between the voices (compared to the Japanese; especially Kyoko), but it works.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:49 pm Reply with quote
As good as the volume 2 dub appears to be, I have to wonder how Christina Vee does as Homura. She's really important for the last volume. I hope she can do Homura's spoiler[high-emotion parts, especially....pretty much everything in episode 10] really well.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:07 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
As good as the volume 2 dub appears to be, I have to wonder how Christina Vee does as Homura. She's really important for the last volume. I hope she can do Homura's spoiler[high-emotion parts, especially....pretty much everything in episode 10] really well.


I was surprised at the English dub version of her spoiler[breakdown near the end of episode 8. It started seeming somewhat devoid of emotion and then WHAM, it got emotional. It was definitely weird, but from that, I can say that she can do it if she tries.]

Veers wrote:
Last night I sat down and finished the English dub of volume two, as well!

I agree with Juno and stand by what I said.

As a side note, regarding the dub in general, I really felt like this volume hit stride better than volume one. It retained a high level of faithfulness to the original script (aside from the changes we've been discussing here) and seemed to be delivered better. I'm not sure if I'm just getting used to the voices or if it's because the characters finally get to be emotional in these episodes or what, but it seemed better than volume one. I still feel like there's not enough distinction between the voices (compared to the Japanese; especially Kyoko), but it works.


I definitely agree. Though I still haven't gotten used to the voices yet (it's only been about two weeks since I watched the first volume in English, but I had to get used to them again this time around, too). The only distinguishing voices I can get are Madoka and Sayaka, who play their parts very much like the Japanese voice actresses do, for better or for worse. Mami and Homura seem like they were voiced by voice actresses with similar voice-types and Kyouko feels like she's just slightly different from them in that she has a particular way of speaking (like in the Japanese version)... but I don't really hear anything particularly unique about it. Kyuubey sounds like a little kid, but he doesn't have the creepy presence he had in the Japanese version... at least, to me. His Japanese voice was purposely stale, with occasional outbursts (at the right times, of course) and now spoiler[he sounds pretty emotional, as though he were normal.]
But don't get me wrong. When it comes to conveying emotion when it matters, I'm happy to say that the voice acting was pretty well-done.
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Chagen46



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Kyuubey sounds like a little kid, but he doesn't have the creepy presence he had in the Japanese version...


In all honesty, hearing what sounds like an androgynous kid say the things he does sounds even more creepy than the Japanese.
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Veers



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, Juno, that's the same reaction I had to Kyubey in the English dub. Got look up my heugpost in the Aniplex of America thread in the retail board, if you haven't seen it already, for my impressions of v1 dub.

Agreed, though, in the scenes in v2 where the emotion mattered, they generally conveyed it pretty well.
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Chagen46



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Not sure why you had so much trouble with distinguishing voices. I could tell them apart just fine.

Also, I kinda liked Mami's voice...it was...kinda hot, to be honest >_>
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Animerican14



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:46 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
I think I still hold the same opinion as what I said before. I took the scene in stride and it didn't exactly flow bad--it was still an effectively emotional scene--but the particular words Sayaka used in the critical scene upset me: spoiler["good" and "bad" in the English dub replacing "hope" and "despair" from the Japanese version.] They seem like they're dumbed-down versions of the original themes. And in a dub where nearly all the lines are almost literal translations from the Japanese, I don't see why they would feel the need to do this to these specific terms. They ARE a critical point to the meaning of the series. They should not have been generalized like that.

Well, the dub seemed to throw in a bit more non-commitment on Sayaka's part-- what with a "probably" and, in regards to The Moment, "or something like that," so maybe it could be ascribed to faulty memory.... that is, until you go back to the mid-section of episode 7, and you see the adjustment occurs in the Kyoko/church scene to set the precedent. Maybe we should blame the writing in that scene more instead? Razz Going to the Kyoko/church scene, off-handedly (someone may want to check on this, since I won't be able to for a good while), I recall the subtitles for what Kyoko said as going something like this: spoiler[That the more you hope for something, the more "despair will rain down upon you."] In the dub-- again, I'm doing this off-hand, so I'd love it for someone to go back and check the scene-- Kyoko says something like spoiler["the more you wish for something good to happen, the more bad stuff is going to come out of it."]

There may be a few ways to rationalize the change, which may not be mutually exclusive. It could be that the characters are simply speaking from a more personal perspective and are thus sounding a bit more subjective, or less obviously and in-the-moment "objective," in the dub as opposed to the sub. With regards to Kyoko and Sayaka, in both languages, I'm pretty sure that at least at some point they both saw what they wished for spoiler[(getting people to listen to Kyoko's father/ healing Kyosuke's arm) as something "good" or "right.]" I doubt that they've completely let go of those original feelings, seeing as how, in both languages, Kyoko believed that spoiler[whatever her Dad was preaching made sense/was right] and Sayaka spoiler[never expresses regret at the actual miracle of healing Kyosuke's arm]. It's the same with the so-called bad stuff: Kyoko and Sayaka of both languages surely thought at least at some point that the unintended consequences, the payments-- spoiler[the insanity of Kyoko's father and the resulting family deaths/ the negative emotion built up inside of Sayaka and the hurting of Madoka-- were "bad."] I also doubt that they've completely let go of their original feelings of them being "negative," or personally think that the exact consequences that were suffered by them-- again,spoiler[ the deaths in Kyoko's family and the emotional hurt inflicted by Sayaka on herself and Madoka-- were in of themselves potentially hopeful to someone else, not knowing about entropy.]

It could be that Aniplex USA felt that the changes here were more equatable than not, and thus not looked at as message-changing in the exact contexts that they were used, in episodes 7 & 8. I sympathize with that point of view-- even having known Urobuchi's world-view, I felt I got about the same message from both languages, about how spoiler[both "good" stuff happened conjointly with the "bad" stuff (please note my use of of quotations here, okay?)]-- the only alterations I see are spoiler[a touch more personalization and that DubSayaka maybe hasn't detached herself from the situation to acknowledge the overall "truth" of magical girls (i.e. Urobuchi's viewpoint) as much as SubSayaka did (though she still feels very Hontou Baka and despairs, so she's not all that detached)]. I also feel that it's only in episodes 9-12 that the concepts of spoiler["hope" and "despair"] develop identities that are more distinct and separable (and thus less potentially interchangeable) from spoiler["good" and "bad"]-- after all, (Episode 9 spoilers) spoiler[Kyubey is still likely to say in the dub that emotion's viewed as an unhealthy thing to be held, and thus won't use "evil" to substitute the use of "despair,"] and (Episode 12 spoilers) spoiler[what would Ultimate Madoka be the embodiment of if not the embodiment of hope? I'd think it'd only be in 4kids land that it'd be something silly like the embodiment of "good."]

It could be, "Whelp, Mouth-flaps!" Laughing

Or, it could be-- and I'm getting into what I think or at least hope is an irrational way to rationalize the change-- that there really is some script adaptation scheming here about changing the message, or outright avoiding the usage of "hope and despair." To quote myself from earlier:
Quote:
I developed this concern-- no, practically a fear-- that [spoiler]hope and despair[spoiler] won't be deliberately brought up as concepts in the dub. Now, up to the end of the dubbed episode 8--I can't remember, really-- do we hear about spoiler[hope and despair] explicitly, considering their two(?) instances of omission/substitution in episodes 7 & 8? Because if there's no little 'precedent' for the terms... well, that wouldn't discourage the dub from using the terms, would it? In episodes 9-12, spoiler[hope and despair] are even more explicitly explored as concepts, and more independently from one another, so it'd be more of an out-of-the-way thing to change the terminology, right? Surely this ambiguity-laden morality isn't being purposefully weeded out...? Goodness, I hope I'm just being irrational about this. I don't want my anticipation of the third volume to be based on whether or not a couple concepts that shouldn't have ever been up for debate make it through to the rest of the dub.


Now this... this... none of you guys (Juno016 & Veers, mainly) really think that this might actually happen, or is a very real possibility, right? I'm leaning more towards that it won't, but it'd honestly be nice to know if anyone else thought the same way. Or... am I the irrational one in thinking that what I quoted up above was irrational?
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Animerican14 wrote:
Now this... this... none of you guys (Juno016 & Veers, mainly) really think that this might actually happen, or is a very real possibility, right? I'm leaning more towards that it won't, but it'd honestly be nice to know if anyone else thought the same way. Or... am I the irrational one in thinking that what I quoted up above was irrational?


It doesn't sound irrational as much as it sounds somewhat unlikely... yet, I can't help but fear it after this volume. If they keep up the "good" and "bad" comparison, I think I will lose a huge amount of respect for the dub script, personally.
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Veers



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:18 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Not sure why you had so much trouble with distinguishing voices. I could tell them apart just fine.
I can tell them apart, I'm just saying they're not as distinctive as the voices in the Japanese dub.



Now, back to this good/bad discussion... normally I don't really nitpick dubs, but since you asked... :p

I remember hearing the words used a couple times in volume two. I hope I don't misquote the dub here, but if I recall correctly the substitution was first made when Kyoko was talking with Sayaka at the church. This, I think, is where "good" and "bad" should not have been brought up like that.

The second is when Sayaka is talking to Kyoko at the subway station, but in that conversation I believe it wasn't a substitution but rather more of an addition; I thought she actually used all four words in that scene (and actually used "good" and "bad" as adjectives, not to as nouns like Kyoko's lines did)? Maybe not, but either way, I had no problem with the words being used in the dub of this scene; they are a value judgement that was not made in the original, but they do no harm at all and actually underscore Sayaka's attitude in a good way (because she is the most judgmental member of the entire cast).

Animerican14 wrote:
It could be that the characters are simply speaking from a more personal perspective and are thus sounding a bit more subjective, or less obviously and in-the-moment "objective," in the dub as opposed to the sub. [...]

I agree with your points about Sayaka and Kyoko, but still, why the change at the church scene?

Kyoko's entire speech is meant to be objective. She is speaking from experience and 20/20 hindsight. Her perspective possibly coming across as more like that of the authors' (whether or not it was is debatable but beside the point) makes perfect sense and the line didn't need to be changed. The ambiguity, the question of where does one, if possible, draw the dividing line between good and bad is pretty important in this show, and I'd say that with the exception of Sayaka, Urobuchi went out of his way to make sure the characters didn't serve as a mouthpiece for one particular stance over another (whether it was his own view or not). The characters may have their own opinions, but the story puts them into conflict and leaves it mostly to the audience to decide what is good or bad, who is right or wrong.

The original line is not a value judgement but rather more of an observation of someone who's more familiar with the system, but the line in the dub is sort of a value judgement. I feel that not only does this miss the mark for what the scene was going for in terms of propping up the narrative for later (ie, the ending), it also misrepresents Kyoko's character, who (to simplify things to nearly criminal levels here for a moment, sorry Kyoko-tan T_T) pretty much exists only to be a foil to Sayaka and her stubborn clinging to the very concepts of good and bad.

I think the absence of such value judgement in Kyoko's original dialog there is quite intentional. Having Kyoko reinforce the very clear-cut concepts of right and wrong she's there to disrupt just feels wrong.

I think that better articulates what bothered me about the scene. Maybe some others can weigh in with their take.

Quote:
Kyubey is still likely to say in the dub that spoiler[emotion's viewed as an unhealthy thing to be held, and thus won't use "evil" to substitute the use of "despair,"]

Eh? Where did he say this in the original? All I remember he says is that spoiler[his species doesn't have emotions like humans do.] Kyubey doesn't make value judgements beyond his MO (that is, spoiler[that the survival of the universe is worth the sacrifice of a few girls]).
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Juno016



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:30 am Reply with quote
Veers wrote:

The original line is not a value judgement but rather more of an observation of someone who's more familiar with the system, but the line in the dub is sort of a value judgement. I feel that not only does this miss the mark for what the scene was going for in terms of propping up the narrative for later (ie, the ending), it also misrepresents Kyoko's character, who (to simplify things to nearly criminal levels here for a moment, sorry Kyoko-tan Anime cry) pretty much exists only to be a foil to Sayaka and her stubborn clinging to the very concepts of good and bad.

I think the absence of such value judgement in Kyoko's original dialog there is quite intentional. Having Kyoko reinforce the very clear-cut concepts of right and wrong she's there to disrupt just feels wrong.

I think that better articulates what bothered me about the scene. Maybe some others can weigh in with their take.


I agree with how you view Kyouko's side, though I don't think it was her only purpose so much as her most important role. Like the other magical girls in the series, including Sayaka, she serves as another good reason why Madoka would spoiler[be willing to make the wish she made in the end--to bring hope back to the personal values of the magical girls.]
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Veers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:40 am Reply with quote
Yes, thus my parenthetical. There's more to her character than that, but in that scene (and in pretty much all her interaction with Sayaka), she takes a foil role in the story.
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