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Charred Knight wrote:

At this point in time, the goal for an anime company isn't to make a good product it's simply to pander to the otaku and hope that your anime is the lucky one that sells 20,000 units and not 2,000.

You know, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of seeing this excuse, frankly. If people didn't think the series was good, they wouldn't buy it. Do people really believe Japanese are so rich as to afford every single title that "panders" to them?

I don't disagree there are titles aimed at a specific audience, but it's laughable to believe everything made now is to "pander" to this very niche crowd in a larger niche market.

These titles are created for one reason only: to keep a revenue stream going between larger projects which try to entertain the entire anime market. It wouldn't be in the industry's best interest not to cater to this market they know will buy to help keep those revenues streaming.

I'm also not one to believe the DVD is still the driving force in revenue in today's anime, but I also realize my belief is in a minority. However, as one who frequently purchases merchandise (mostly figures), it's rather important I share the observations how cheap-to-produce merchandise, marked up significantly, often sells out quickly, moreso than the DVD.

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If you make a series and sell it for 50 dollars for two episodes, then all you're going to get is the exact same people buying a limited amount of product over and over again.

Lowering a price of a product does not guarantee an increase in revenue or profit. A fact, by the way, as the Japanese market did lower prices on its titles in hopes of increasing revenue. Sales did go up, but revenue did not.

Of course it wouldn't, but this is something most people just don't understand. Yet, we can look to our own market as proof. We have the cheapest anime and yet we also have dismal sales to show for it.

And make no mistake here: these sales have always been dismal. Pokemon and Dragonball blew the doors off the sales charts, but these titles are no longer in demand.

What we have now is a true market, and the fact they're not buying the cheapest anime, which is $50 for an entire season, this speaks volumes against your belief lowering the price in Japan is going to be favorable.

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The anime industry is not a healthy industry so I don't think the answer is to prevent the anime from ever becoming something other than a super niche product worldwide.

I'm sick of this, too. If the anime industry was in such a dire situation, then how in the world can it still produce titles?

The problem with propaganda, Charred Knight, is it's a disease of misinformation. Those who produce DVDs are seeing their revenue decline, so of course they're going to start blaming other factors for their losses.

What they don't tell you, just as Hollywood doesn't tell Congress while it pushes for bullshit laws, is revenue is being made in other avenues and I'm more than confident to believe merchandise now accounts for most of what Japan earns in revenue.

There's no way anyone is going to convince me a $50 3-episode DVD has a better markup than a $50 body pillow or a $100 piece of plastic molded to look like a pretty girl.

The sheer number of figures available on the market, and most sell out, is nearly triple what it was a decade ago. I should know. I've watched it grow.

I'm also confident the merchandise market grew because it was so successful in the United States.

A keychain of Keroro is going to be appealing to more people than its series.

agila61 wrote:

Someone who is not willing to pay $50, or $20, or $10 is not automatically acting "entitled" because of that.

There's a huge difference between someone not willing to pay and those who expect what they'll pay be a specific price.

The latter most assuredly is entitlement, and it's a term I'm getting sick of hearing as well. It's a cop-out excuse to skirt the issues which make accepting changes in this industry difficult.

On both sides, there are issues, and yet neither side is willing to compromise. Japan wants a little more cash for its stuff, but our market is telling them to screw off if it's applied across the board.

Of course, I can understand why people would be upset at having to pay $300 for a series, but I will only understand this complaint if they're buying many titles.

To those who "pick and choose" titles (because they feel the rest of it is "moe shit"), I dismiss their complaints because they're also taking their anime "for free".

The entire premise of the argument against fansubs is the belief "people take without contributing", but I find fault with this because it's well established those who fansub also buy what they like. There simply is no measurable way to indicate what people are willing to buy regardless if fansubs existed or not.

If people who make this complaint feel those who "take" are entitled, then I can easily state the same thing when these very same people then demand our industry sell them a product well, well, well below the market value, which means they want this "series they love so much, they want to own it" at damn-near a free price.

It's a double-standard most can't see because they're too pissed off knowing people are viewing anime while they're buying.

Wait. Not buying. Selectively buying, leaving all the shit titles they don't want to own for someone else to buy.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:

At this point in time, the goal for an anime company isn't to make a good product it's simply to pander to the otaku and hope that your anime is the lucky one that sells 20,000 units and not 2,000.

You know, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of seeing this excuse, frankly. If people didn't think the series was good, they wouldn't buy it. Do people really believe Japanese are so rich as to afford every single title that "panders" to them?

Any fisherman will tell you one has to bait the hook for the fish that are biting. When the facts are staring us in the face what other conclusion can there be? When just about every season in the passed 4 or 5 years has had the majority of titles that are blatantly pandering to one, or a couple of sexual fetish of one form or another, what else could it be?

So let me get this straight Anime's main goal is not to pander to otaku because the Otaku simply want good anime (I don't believe anyone bought Queen's Blade for the story) but that doesn't matter because anime's main goal is to sell people body pillows of cute people (women obviously buy body pillows as well) for 50 dollars and figurines of cute people for 100 dollars?

So the main goal now is not to pander to Otaku so they will buy the DVD, and BR, but to pander to the otaku so they would buy overprice junk because it has cute people on them. I don't see much difference.

As for the current status of anime, it's still being produced but less of it is being made, and it's not evolving as an art form.

Carl:

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they generally tolerate and have even offered tacit endorsement of fans making (and also selling) fan works that use the original's characters or situations--

I don't think they tolerate stealing someone's music without paying for it, which is what Daicon did. And it's a bit more than a doujinshi, because it actually uses exact replicas of characters and mechs, which doujinshi try to avoid doing. Not to mention that doujinshi are, as you noted, generally sold exclusively within fan conventions, while Daicon was sold outside of cons through that LD.

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If the Japanese industry had considered it an unacceptable practice, I doubt they would have been invited, based on what they showed in these fan films, to start working in the industry.

Well, it was the 80s, when there was an anime bubble, so they probably needed all the deckhands they could get. But I don't think they'd tolerate it in today's environment. Though, either way, whether or not Okada got a gig after Daicon is not the point. His whole career was built on copying unauthorized images, which he criticizes others for doing, as well. It's like when Metallica complained about Napster, even though they personally encouraged recording of their concerts and trading of their music on tape. The whole "Do as I say, not as I do" mindset, essentially. And so I think Okada and Gainax should be putting their money where their mouths are, if they want to talk about piracy, and pay back every single corporate entity which owns those characters.

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if someone else had animated it, and they had just taken those people's animation without permission and sold or distributed copies of it. I doubt, in that case, whether anyone in the industry would have been impressed or admiring. They were impressed because, even though they used other people's characters, they used them in a way that showed they had creative energy and talent themselves, and didn't just run off copies of the original shows or manga.

Well, the fact of the matter is, Gainax did take other people's animation and music without permission and sold copies of it. Just because they were creative with it does not mean they weren't infringing on their copyright. I do know if someone charged money for their AMVs, they could be sued or have their vid shut down. And there are a lot of people who've had to go to court over parodies, which are protected. So why should Gainax somehow be an exception? Daicon wasn't really a parody, and it barely qualifies as a fanfic, since it's really more like graffiti art copies of those trademarked characters, rather than its own product.

It's sort of like my beef with Cabin in the Woods, which uses Stephen King's Pennywise from It and Sadako from The Ring in the movie. They're going to call it an "homage", but those are characters based on books and movies still owned by their respective parties. And no one who created them is going to be credited or compensated, but the filmmakers will cash in, anyway. Now, if they were derivative variations, like that slasher mask in Scream, then I'd accept that as a form of "free speech". But Goddard and Gainax profited off the original content without actually adding anything new. So, for Okada to, 30 years later, lecture to other people about stealing is the height of hypocrisy. Because while illegally torrenting is wrong, at least it potentially serves a purpose in promoting the original property(ies) in question, which may lead to a legal purchase of it down the road. But all Okada did was take credit for other people's designs, animations, and music, and profited off of them. Doujin artists at least try to incorporate their own ideas into the established material, and that's really how they earn their bread. So who's the real "thief" here?

I can't agree with your assessment of things, but, if you feel strongly about this, it is really toward the Japanese side that you should direct your campaign, as it is within that business environment Gainax and Okada live and work. In other words, you might prepare a letter in Japanese, explaining to the various media companies whose rights you feel have been infringed, why they have been wrong to continue to work and associate with these individuals over the past thirty years, and detail how they have been wronged and should instead demand redress. In addition to the anime and film studios on the list, you could point out to Sony, which is ELO's label in Japan, that--presumably unbeknownst to them--the Princess Maker series they have released on PSP is by Daicon IV's character designer and Gurren Lagann's co-producer. They may also want to drop all those Evangelion titles from the platform as well.

Carl Horn:

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I can't agree with your assessment of things, but, if you feel strongly about this, it is really toward the Japanese side that you should direct your campaign,

I did, and Okada blocked me on Twitter. Not sure what you disagree with me on, though. What exactly is the difference between what Okada did and what Nick Simmons did with Bleach?
One was just more honest about unauthorized copying and profiteering from trademarks than the other?

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In other words, you might prepare a letter in Japanese, explaining to the various media companies whose rights you feel have been infringed, why they have been wrong to continue to work and associate with these individuals over the past thirty years, and detail how they have been wronged and should instead demand redress.

I'm not saying they were wrong to work with Gainax. I'm saying Gainax should pay them back for the free ride they got off that LD.
Otherwise, Okada is a hypocrite.

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In addition to the anime and film studios on the list, you could point out to Sony, which is ELO's label in Japan, that--presumably unbeknownst to them--the Princess Maker series they have released on PSP is by Daicon IV's character designer and Gurren Lagann's co-producer.

Well, I do know that ELO and/or Sony at least got paid for the song when it was used in the Trainman tv opening. Maybe that's enough for them. And I guess since that chara designer made some money for Sony/Aniplex through GL, then he's off the hook. But that still doesn't acquit Gainax proper.

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