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Chicks On Anime - Censorship Part 1

I know this has been disjointed and longwinded, and there’s plenty more to say, but it just seems like we need to get beyond the politically correct nature of the discussion and really get to the heart of the issue.

Casey displays a profound misunderstanding of Canadian law.

Godzilla_is_coming wrote:

Casey displays a profound misunderstanding of Canadian law.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I didn't want to say anything because I can't claim to fully understand it myself but some of the stuff did seem a little off.

I would love to hear a more conservative voice in this particular column. There was a lot of agreement in this column because the contributors have similar leanings. The conclusion of this column can be summed up (albeit, in a elementary way) as "some things are reprehensible, but they should still be made available unless proof of harm can be shown."

I think we need to think about the moral quandries presented by having this type of material readily accessible. What kind of influence is this material having on generations of young men and women?

To enjoy certain entertainments speaks of a seriously maladjusted mind. The “I don’t have to buy it” argument only goes so far because some materials do affect their viewers. A sober, rational individual can watch Overfiend and be disgusted without being permanently scarred, perhaps, but not every individual in our society is sober and rational. We might finally disagree on where some of those lines are, but there is nothing to be ashamed about for saying that some things go beyond the pale and should not be part of the entertainment of a civilized society. But to say that anything goes is essentially not society but anarchy.

there is nothing to be ashamed about for saying that some things go beyond the pale and should not be part of the entertainment of a civilized society.

Stupid assumption but would it not be more profitable from a publisher standpoint to take the original creation and run off a uncensored publication of it aimed at "adults", it could be 30 or so percent of a normal publication.

This way you have a watered down mass market medium that's easily distributed and then if the un censored release garners enough attention more of it can be published.

So publishers can release the uncensored stuff at a 30% hike to offset any sells issue.

Zippydsm wrote:

Stupid assumption but would it not be more profitable from a publisher standpoint to take the original creation and run off a uncensored publication of it aimed at "adults", it could be 30 or so percent of a normal publication. This way you have a watered down mass market medium that's easily distributed and then if the un censored release garners enough attention more of it can be published. So publishers can release the uncensored stuff at a 30% hike to offset any sells issue.

The issue with this is that, although fans may like to talk big about how they'll purchase this or that as long as the publishers do this or the other-- they seldom put their money where their mouth is. Listening to fans doesn't always make for the best licensing decisions, nor does it always guarantee a good return.

I imagine that the cost of printing a second version of something (even if it's a smaller amount) wouldn't be offset by the sales. While many fans love to threaten to buy/not buy any given product, they don't always come through.

...

Okay, I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here

1. Most of us are adults, and I'm guessing that not everyone here is a parent, so I'm not surprised that the value of protecting kids has been sidestepped here. I myself am not a parent, so I'm basing the following statements on the psych classes I took in college, with the intention of becoming an advocate for abused children:

-It has been proven in studies that young children can not distinguish btw. fantasy and reality. For example, most kids think advertisements aimed at them (usually for junk food and toys) are actually part of the show. Another, more chilling example, is that children exposed to fictional depictions of extreme violence and sex/pornography often react as traumatized as kids who grow up in dangerous neighborhoods and are frequently exposed to real sex and violence.

-It is considered a form of sexual abuse to expose children to pornographic images.

So protecting kids, especially young children, from violent media is a very real concern for parents.

I can relate to a previous poster's experience of catching her young niece accidentally watching a violent cartoon. To a concerned parent, damaging images are everywhere, and the fight to keep your children safe often feels like its "us against the world." The more conservative your values, the bigger the battle against harmful media seems.

I grew up, and still live, within a fairly conservative society. I've seen parents go through all sorts of hoops to keep their kids unexposed to harmful media-believe it or not, some people in this country don't own a television, don't have internet access in their homes, never go to theaters or even rent movies, and won't let their kids go to the library unattended.

Being a DA here, I'd like to point out that this "extremism" can make for some really refreshingly sheltered, and often wonderfully well-behaved kids. Imagine a twelve-year-old that has nary heard profanity and would never dream of using it, has absolutely no interest in sex, is respectful, responsible, and mature, and contrary to popular belief, also quite wordly and intelligent (she may not know who "Hannah Montana" is, but does know all major world leaders, and how to write a term paper, etc).

This leaves such parents in a quandary, one I personally identify with: "This story is great, the writing is well-crafted, and if it weren't for that bit of (violence, nudity, profanity) I think this kid would love this novel/ manga." I have often thought this, and it's a sad thought.

Personal Experience Mode: Bringing this problem to myself and my often more conservative peers, I have often heard and even expressed the lament of "why do great stories for mature adults have to be spoiled by unnecessary sex scenes/and or gratuitous profanity?" I know many people who have given up reading their favorite authors (or "secular" novels altogether) because they are so turned off by just a few scenes or words in the books.

So, this DA says to remember that the "if you don't like it, don't buy it," mentality ensures that many people make a painful (and believe me, it is painful) decision to refrain from consuming stories that they would otherwise really, really enjoy. Because there just is a horrible dearth of well-crafted entertaining stories that lack what they want to avoid for personal or religious reasons. How often have I thought: "If it weren't for this scene, this word, this negative depiction, I would recommend this incredible story to...*sigh*"

I have more to say on this topic, but I think that's enough for now.

Oh, and Princess_Irena, that's not a Star of David, but a Pentagram. No worries

Because there just is a horrible dearth of well-crafted entertaining stories that lack what they want to avoid for personal or religious reasons. How often have I thought: "If it weren't for this scene, this word, this negative depiction, I would recommend this incredible story to...*sigh*"

Agent355 wrote:

Because there just is a horrible dearth of well-crafted entertaining stories that lack what they want to avoid for personal or religious reasons. How often have I thought: "If it weren't for this scene, this word, this negative depiction, I would recommend this incredible story to...*sigh*"

i don't want to argue the rest of this post because then i'd have to dig up studies and i'm not in the mood. *wry grin*.

but being as i grew up in an extremely protected environment, and i was oh so very well-behaved and a straight A student (and also repressed as can be, something that took years of therapy to undo), i didn't find there to be a dearth of reading materials. mine were strictly controlled, much more so than was common under the community standards of the time and locale, but i was a voracious and demanding reader nonetheless, and there was always more to read than i could keep up with. it took effort from the religious community in which i lived, but they made it work for themselves. none of us children were ever parked in front of the tv, because the public airwaves are for all people, and they are not anyone's babysitter.

if the only thing that keeps a parent from giving a book to their children are a few words here and there, a negative depiction, what's to keep them from censoring the material by hand? it'd be extremely easy to do, and it's IMO wise for parents of young children to read books before giving them to the kids anyway -- at the very least so they can talk about them together.

there you go -- personal responsibility instead of trying to tighten "community standards" that put the onus on everyone else who might not share the same preferences.

Oh, and Princess_Irena, that's not a Star of David, but a Pentagram. No worries

i agree with most of what you said, which was rational and supported by actual data. and then you go off the rails in this paragraph.

see, i've watched urotsuki doji, and i am neither permanently scarred nor have i turned into a cruel rapist. in fact i am just as opposed to rape and torture as i've ever been. and the same is true for every other person i know who's watched it. is it the worst thing i've ever seen? not by a long shot.

by definition anime never affects me as strongly as live-action because its art makes it so obviously fantastical.

i cannot watch actual horror movies, because they make me physically ill. and yet some of my friends, all sane and rational and eminently peaceful people, they love watching chainsaw-wielding guys carve up screaming teenagers. i don't understand it emotionally, but intellectually i do. it allows them to deal with their own fears in a safe environment. and some get a kick out of the adrenalin rush, which once again is resolved in safety. i'm not about to deny anyone that, no matter how disgusted i get.

might it affect non-sober and irrational people? yes. but hear this: so might anything else, no matter how innocuous it may seem to you. irrational by definition means common sense and logic do not apply.

but people commit all sorts of horrific crimes that are shown in horror movies, and even in more mainline films. should we ban all those as well? how about documentaries? more importantly, would doing so actually lessen that sort of crime?

i'm not ashamed to say that real rape and real torture and real war should not be part of a civilized society. and yet what has happened? people scream about videogames and anime hentai while their government makes its soldiers kill thousands of innocents, and tortures enemy captives. there is the real offense.