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The X Button - Digital Division


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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1671
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:02 pm Reply with quote
MrXarnus wrote:
As long as there are people willing to pay for a retail copy of a game, retail (physical copies) of games will never die. Maybe it will become a little more niche and expensive, but I can't really see every gamer downloading games in 5/10 years instead of going to a store/buying online.


A big reason for DD-only is with the economy. Why is alot of XSEED games going digital? Well, they are a smaller company (without a parent company in Japan to back them up) and if they lack resources to sell a game physically, they just can't. Digital is the only way to go for them, or no game at all. They've stated time and time again on their forums (amazing PR on there!) that they WISH they could, but are unable to...

It's sad, really. JRPGs are selling good, but it does depend what they are. I believe LEs/CEs are what keep alot of their numbers up, since they can contain things you just can't simply download. And their value still skyrockets! Nisa did AMAZING sales with their Neptunia MK2 LE, to the point where it sold out (including an extra batch) before the preorder cut off date even came up! And even THEN there were MANY unhappy people that didn't preorder in time and didn't get it (although some lucky on a waitlist got some cancelled copies).

PSP in general, is just done for physical copies... After Atlus puts out Gungnir and Growlanser. I walked into a smaller Gamestop in a mall the other week to see that they already sent off their PSP section! Strange, since it's still a current system! The market is pretty much gone for it, sadly, so it's time to support Vita now, and hopefully more JRPGs will get localized for it... And hopefully not digitally because memory cards are pricey for it!



RyanSaotome wrote:

So in the end you're left with a file you paid full price for in most cases that you don't actually own. It benefits the companies greatly since it hurts the used sales market and there are less production costs, but I just don't see the benefit to consumers outside of being lazy. Though I guess in this age, forcing the consumer to get off their couch can be viewed as a drawback.


They call it "convenience". But as tech gets better, so do the files of games go up, requiring you to constantly upgrade you memory sticks/HDD to really keep up with it! Music downloads are different, since they will always be small files. Games... Well, DLC has done well because they are smaller files.
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4463
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:39 pm Reply with quote
As someone only interested in buying packaged games on physical media formats, I'm pretty sure the next generation of consoles will be the last I'll buy, partly because I'm not interested in digital downloads and partly because, by the time the following, presumably digital-only, generation of consoles after the next one is released, I'll be in my late forties, by which time I imagine I won't be as interested in gaming anyway.

I might have contributed to that Kickstarter thingy, but I don't have a credit card and am skeptical over the faddishness of raising money on Kickstarter anyhow.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also don't have a PSP or a Nintendo 3DS, so I was unlikely to have participated in that Kickstarter even if I had a credit card.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:06 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
There will always be resistance to it since not everyone is willing to just give into something that only benefits the companies and not consumers.

There are the occasional consumers like me, of course, who see a digital copy as more valuable than a physical copy, who are always frustrated when they have to go get a physical object, which then occupies space, can be damaged, can get lost, etc. to get access to infinitely reproducible information. I don't know how big my faction is, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it grow.


Each to their own. Digital only has its own problems and risks too.
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Forte-sama



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Players control a generic male or female warrior (and an Evee) at first, but there's a wide range of historical Japanese figures turned into cartoonish Pokemon keepers.


A typo here in the article. The Pokemon in question is called "Eevee", not "Evee".
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3819
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:39 pm Reply with quote
Sheleigha wrote:
MrXarnus wrote:
As long as there are people willing to pay for a retail copy of a game, retail (physical copies) of games will never die. Maybe it will become a little more niche and expensive, but I can't really see every gamer downloading games in 5/10 years instead of going to a store/buying online.


A big reason for DD-only is with the economy. Why is alot of XSEED games going digital? Well, they are a smaller company (without a parent company in Japan to back them up) and if they lack resources to sell a game physically, they just can't. Digital is the only way to go for them, or no game at all. They've stated time and time again on their forums (amazing PR on there!) that they WISH they could, but are unable to...

It's sad, really. JRPGs are selling good, but it does depend what they are. I believe LEs/CEs are what keep alot of their numbers up, since they can contain things you just can't simply download. And their value still skyrockets! Nisa did AMAZING sales with their Neptunia MK2 LE, to the point where it sold out (including an extra batch) before the preorder cut off date even came up! And even THEN there were MANY unhappy people that didn't preorder in time and didn't get it (although some lucky on a waitlist got some cancelled copies).

PSP in general, is just done for physical copies... After Atlus puts out Gungnir and Growlanser. I walked into a smaller Gamestop in a mall the other week to see that they already sent off their PSP section! Strange, since it's still a current system! The market is pretty much gone for it, sadly, so it's time to support Vita now, and hopefully more JRPGs will get localized for it... And hopefully not digitally because memory cards are pricey for it!



RyanSaotome wrote:

So in the end you're left with a file you paid full price for in most cases that you don't actually own. It benefits the companies greatly since it hurts the used sales market and there are less production costs, but I just don't see the benefit to consumers outside of being lazy. Though I guess in this age, forcing the consumer to get off their couch can be viewed as a drawback.


They call it "convenience". But as tech gets better, so do the files of games go up, requiring you to constantly upgrade you memory sticks/HDD to really keep up with it! Music downloads are different, since they will always be small files. Games... Well, DLC has done well because they are smaller files.


Yeah tell me about it i finally got the cash in the bank for HD MK2 and nope they where gone.. meh oh well and I do agree with the digital attitude for niche game if it's the only way to bring them over. It would be nice to see sega bring over VC3 and Square-Enix Localize Final Fantasy Type 0 but i don't see that happening unless they had day one digital support for the vita in the us.

Again I am praising corpse party as the prime example that you can sell a game that's niche for a 20 dollars rather than doing a shot in the dark with physical sells. What also makes me sad is all the visual novel ports like clannad, stein's;gate that don't make the cut or ever will however maybe their is chance on ios devices to get them out in english.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3629
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:38 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
I'm a big collector and I love all of those special editions that NISA puts out, so I'd be heartbroken if physical media went away. I will never pay anywhere near full price for a digital only copy... since I feel you're not getting a full product. I'd either wait for it to go half price or just skip those titles.


I can definately say the same for me, but I would rather have a digital copy than nothing. If atlus said they were releasing Super Robot Taisen OG: EF Exceed digital only tomorrow I'd already set aside the money for it. I'd probably still go to their site and ask for a physical release, but if the cost of a physical release is keeping a title from being released here at all, then there's no question about which type of release I'd support.
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4463
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:54 pm Reply with quote
I forgot to add that, as a niche JRPG player, if niche JRPG's stopped getting physical media releases in English, that might just be the kick in the pants I need to improve my Japanese language skills beyond eternal beginner status.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1168
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:33 am Reply with quote
I'd think it'd ultimately actually be cheaper, easier, and quicker to buy both the packaged Japanese edition and the English language digital version if you were to be put in that situation.
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SD Maruko-kun



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:51 am Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
Well, I see it this way: It basically takes away your ability to "own" the game, since you can't choose what you want to do with it. You want to let your friend borrow it? Too bad, its stuck to only your account. You want to sell it?

Well, I guess you didn't read the fine print...
When you're "buying" a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD, technically you're just actually buying the plastic (and metal layer) and getting a limited license to use the data stored on the disc.
From the perspective of the media industry, your lending and selling is a violation of your license...
(they'll just not shout about that fact too loudly/don't do too much about it, since they probably would stand to loose way more from people thinking "wait, why am I paying so much if I don't even actually really own the game/movie/music?!?" than they would gain from cracking down on people lending or selling their discs. Giving people the illusion that they're the owner of the game/movie/music is more profitable...)

The advantage of a disc without online activation over a DRM-ed download is that your license can't suddenly be revoked though.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:27 am Reply with quote
Diablo III finally! A friend was a beta-tester for the first one and, as reward, got a brothel named after him (now forever calls himself "pimp-master" in the game). Laughing
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N.R.



Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:53 am Reply with quote
"NIS America offers similar deluxe sets through an online store where players can buy recent releases like Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 and Atelier Meruru with soundtracks and art booklets. And they've done it for years. As is the case with hard drugs or Aniplex's $600 anime Blu-Ray sets, somebody's buying them."

That's not a very good example. NIS is selling the deluxe editions for a maximum of 20$ above retail price of the SE. That's far from Aniplex's total-ripoff pricing. Also, NIS has been successfully selling Atelier games for past few years because the Atelier games are top-notch JRPGs. There are very few JRPGs nowadays that have the quality of Atelier Rorona/Totori/Meruru. Also the Atelier games are on PS3. Games like Black Rock Shooter that are on the PSP has an even harder time finding a proper audience in the U.S.
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rojse



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:25 am Reply with quote
If a publisher decides by maintaining a server to allow a download of a game is cheaper than that making and pressing a CD, making a guidebook, and shipping a game (not to mention the cost of retail markup) and decide to pass on some of those savings to the consumer, then digital downloads will certainly become more popular.

As for me, I will take a physical copy of a game over a digital copy whenever I can - I don't have to worry about taking up as much space on my console's hard-drive as a full download(my hard-drive stores a huge amount of video files already), I don't have to worry about losing access to the game should I lose my console, and as long as I have access to a compatible console, I can always play my game.

There's also the factor that I don't have access to reliable high-speed landline internet, which does mean that I am unable to download any games.

The major saving grace of digital copies is that they do allow you to play games on defunct consoles where physical distribution would be prohibitively expensive - services like the PS1 store on the Playstation Network have given me the chance to play older PS1 classics like Xenogears, which is pretty neat.

SD Maruko-kun wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
Well, I see it this way: It basically takes away your ability to "own" the game, since you can't choose what you want to do with it. You want to let your friend borrow it? Too bad, its stuck to only your account. You want to sell it?

Well, I guess you didn't read the fine print...
When you're "buying" a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD, technically you're just actually buying the plastic (and metal layer) and getting a limited license to use the data stored on the disc.
From the perspective of the media industry, your lending and selling is a violation of your license...


The fine print on DVD copyright prohibits you from copying the DVD or airing it in a public venue without permission (well, in Australia, at least). There's nothing in the copyright laws that says you can't loan a DVD or game, nor to say that you cannot sell your game or DVD - if that were the case, you wouldn't be able to buy any DVDs or games from any second-hand seller.
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DavidShallcross



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1008
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:49 am Reply with quote
SD Maruko-kun wrote:
Well, I guess you didn't read the fine print...
When you're "buying" a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD, technically you're just actually buying the plastic (and metal layer) and getting a limited license to use the data stored on the disc.
From the perspective of the media industry, your lending and selling is a violation of your license...
[...]game/movie/music

As they say on wikipedia, citation needed.

In the US, used record stores have about a hundred-year history. If they necessarily involved violations of licenses, then one of the hundreds if not thousands of record publishers over the years would have won a court case against them. Even if it were in their best interests to not enforce such rights, there have been too many for some not to have tried. There is a reason why software publishers put license text on the box, or make you agree to a license during the installation process.

Laws in the Netherlands may differ. And what is tacitly ignored is the requirement to delete all your rips and backups when you resell your recordings.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:14 am Reply with quote
SD Maruko-kun wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
Well, I see it this way: It basically takes away your ability to "own" the game, since you can't choose what you want to do with it. You want to let your friend borrow it? Too bad, its stuck to only your account. You want to sell it?

Well, I guess you didn't read the fine print...
When you're "buying" a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD, technically you're just actually buying the plastic (and metal layer) and getting a limited license to use the data stored on the disc.
From the perspective of the media industry, your lending and selling is a violation of your license...
(they'll just not shout about that fact too loudly/don't do too much about it, since they probably would stand to loose way more from people thinking "wait, why am I paying so much if I don't even actually really own the game/movie/music?!?" than they would gain from cracking down on people lending or selling their discs. Giving people the illusion that they're the owner of the game/movie/music is more profitable...)

The advantage of a disc without online activation over a DRM-ed download is that your license can't suddenly be revoked though.


Not to mention, if they have to go to court, such policies may come under judicial review.
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Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1255
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:28 am Reply with quote
DavidShallcross wrote:
SD Maruko-kun wrote:
Well, I guess you didn't read the fine print...
When you're "buying" a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD, technically you're just actually buying the plastic (and metal layer) and getting a limited license to use the data stored on the disc.
From the perspective of the media industry, your lending and selling is a violation of your license...
[...]game/movie/music

As they say on wikipedia, citation needed.

In the US, used record stores have about a hundred-year history. If they necessarily involved violations of licenses, then one of the hundreds if not thousands of record publishers over the years would have won a court case against them. Even if it were in their best interests to not enforce such rights, there have been too many for some not to have tried. There is a reason why software publishers put license text on the box, or make you agree to a license during the installation process.

Laws in the Netherlands may differ. And what is tacitly ignored is the requirement to delete all your rips and backups when you resell your recordings.
Well, resales specifically are protected by the "first sale doctrine"; you have the right to transfer your legally purchased licenses at will, and copyright holders have no ability to restrict that. I don't know exactly where lending falls (it could be considered a private performance?), but the worst case scenario is it's petty theft; spending thousands of dollars to prosecute a $10 CD (or even a $60 game) is pretty pointless.
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