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NEWS: Crunchyroll Site Simulcasts Shugo Chara!! Doki— Anime


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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:52 pm Reply with quote
[Cuts out huge amount of ranting]

To start with, please kindly take a chillpill, dude/dudette before you have a coronary arrest!

Also, I wasn't even going to accuse you of working for CR or any BS like that although it was kind of you to say what you did about "Shinji".

As I said in a previous post, I just don't like CR doing what they're doing under false pretenses to their members, saying that the new CR is going to be better than the old CR but they hardly mention the fact that 1/2 to 3/4 of the content isn't available to people outside North America.

To be honest, the new CR seems to be aimed more at the North American market instead of including the people outside the region that supported CR when it was non-legit. In any case, I've never understood what was so special about the site in the first place... If I want fansubs, I'd just download them from AnimeSuki or some other site like TV-Nihon.

Also, I'm truly and utterly sick and tired of CR-Fanboys/Girls whining and moaning about how people who live outside North America should stop complaining about how CR shafted them and should get over it.

Here's a good example of region-coding in a way: the anime-like show "Huntik:Secrets and Seekers" [which is actually pretty damn good and which features Richard Epcar as one of the bad guys and Yuri Lowenthal as the main character; Lok] is currently being shown on Jetix UK every day and will finish here in the UK on January 30th while CW4Kids screening will end around May/June in the US if they continue to show one new episode a week, the series being shown on a weekly basis there. In other words, if you're a huge Huntik fan, you'll have to rely on encodes from the UK if you want to play catch up with the series, so for once, the boot is on the other foot in this case! Very Happy

BTW, I do know that Toei is incompetent and I have said countless times on this board about how incompetent they are.

At the end of the day, CR are not doing themselves any favors by falsely claiming that the new CR is aimed at a global audience when it clearly isn't. Only when there is a site that has legal downloads available for a worldwide audience will I support it and that will probably not happen any time soon if the animation companies continue to divide the world into regions.
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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Shuchung wrote:
BorgmanJayce wrote:
Nice try, fanboy but if you can tell me why I'm supposedly wrong with my argument ["You are wrong because you are wrong" is just plain stupid!] instead of speaking in riddles, I along with the rest of this forum would be very grateful indeed.

Sure. Good chance to clarify a few points.

1. Crunchyroll doesn't have false advertisement. You just read it wrong.
2. Your Chinese buffet analogy is wrong.
3. Crunchyroll is not responsible for not making titles available in your country.


To start with [and I'm being nice here!]
1) I didn't read it wrong and they definitely falsely advertised what they claimed to their members except they didn't make it clear enough that all their shows would only be available in North America and that 1/2 to 3/4 of the shows would be IP blocked to people outside North America.
2) I still think that my analogy is correct.
3) CR IS responsible for making sure that they get the licenses for the rest of the world in the first place where possible and not offer half-assed excuses to their international members as well as lie to them in a desperate attempt to get their money.

edzieba, I'm willing to tone down the vitriol as long as certain fanboys/fangirls stop insisting that people outside North America don't have the right to watch or buy English-language anime and manga at all as well as accept the fact that CR clearly made false claims about certain shows being available worldwide when they are clearly not. It's just a shame that these people aren't willing to accept the honest truth that anime fandom as well as manga fandom doesn't resolve around North America. The situation in the UK as far as anime and manga is concerned is bad enough although things are slowly getting better but when I see certain people being arrogant towards the rest of the world, I can't help but be angry.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:18 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
edzieba, I'm willing to tone down the vitriol as long as certain fanboys/fangirls stop insisting that people outside North America don't have the right to watch or buy English-language anime and manga at all as well as accept the fact that CR clearly made false claims about certain shows being available worldwide when they are clearly not.
Nobody is saying those outside of the US have no right to watch subbed anime. The point was that no-one ANYWHERE has a right to watch anime.There is also a distinction between a 'right' in the moral entitlement sense, and 'rights' in the legal/copyright sense. The former essentially do not apply to forms of entertainment, and the latter are going through a transition period for all forms of media as global distribution becomes cheaper to perform and harder to monetise.
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Kireek



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:28 pm Reply with quote
I had a good laugh reading this.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-436082/HorribleSubs-Crunchyroll-Ripping.html


Meanwhile, the people who pretend to be college kids sit back make some money and laugh at everyone.
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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:31 pm Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
Quote:
edzieba, I'm willing to tone down the vitriol as long as certain fanboys/fangirls stop insisting that people outside North America don't have the right to watch or buy English-language anime and manga at all as well as accept the fact that CR clearly made false claims about certain shows being available worldwide when they are clearly not.
Nobody is saying those outside of the US have no right to watch subbed anime. The point was that no-one ANYWHERE has a right to watch anime.There is also a distinction between a 'right' in the moral entitlement sense, and 'rights' in the legal/copyright sense. The former essentially do not apply to forms of entertainment, and the latter are going through a transition period for all forms of media as global distribution becomes cheaper to perform and harder to monetise.


I can understand where you're coming from but to be honest, I see it as a form of censorship in that a lot of the shows that are on CR will never be available in the UK in one form or another and that's why people like me are unhappy in the first place.

I'm all for legal anime but at the moment because there's no legal alternative aimed at a UK/European audience, I have no choice but to download fansubs and do re-encodes of official releases from the Gonzo YouTube page for the forseeable future...
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Maybe "Right" isn't the right way of puting it.

Maybe it would be best to put it as people being "Ignored" inspite of thier willingness to pay for these methods of obtaining shows.
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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Kireek wrote:
I had a good laugh reading this.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-436082/HorribleSubs-Crunchyroll-Ripping.html


Meanwhile, the people who pretend to be college kids sit back make some money and laugh at everyone.


You have to admit this is ironic in a very delicious kind of way! Very Happy

Conan-san, QFT and I definitely hear where you're coming from. If the likes of Toei and Media Factory don't want our money, we'll just have to spend it elsewhere like Amazon.com or anywhere that ships import PSP games to the UK... [wants to get the Kamen no Maid Guy game that's coming out in a few weeks time]
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:09 pm Reply with quote
BorgmanJayce wrote:

I'm all for legal anime but at the moment because there's no legal alternative aimed at a UK/European audience, I have no choice but to download fansubs and do re-encodes of official releases from the Gonzo YouTube page for the forseeable future...

There is a Joost UK, but there is little on it.
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Shuchung



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:12 pm Reply with quote
BorgmanJayce wrote:

1) I didn't read it wrong and they definitely falsely advertised what they claimed to their members except they didn't make it clear enough that all their shows would only be available in North America and that 1/2 to 3/4 of the shows would be IP blocked to people outside North America.

Here I annotated it for you.

Anime Membership - Sign Up Page
Anime Program Lineup Page
Anime Membership - FAQ

Before you order the membership, you take a look at the program line up to see which programs you are interested, and what is available in your region. Just in case, you can also check out the FAQ at the bottom with bold print font to see what else you might want to know prior to making the purchase. That's it. Not so hard, right?

Many of these titles weren't available anywhere in the west until this past week. So just be glad they are taking a step at the right direction. And have some patience.
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Kireek



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Besides, what is the point of paying when other sites are now ripping it off crunchyroll on the same day of realease.

Its so damn ironic.
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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Shuchung wrote:
BorgmanJayce wrote:

1) I didn't read it wrong and they definitely falsely advertised what they claimed to their members except they didn't make it clear enough that all their shows would only be available in North America and that 1/2 to 3/4 of the shows would be IP blocked to people outside North America.

Here I annotated it for you.

Anime Membership - Sign Up Page
Anime Program Lineup Page
Anime Membership - FAQ

Before you order the membership, you take a look at the program line up to see which programs you are interested, and what is available in your region. Just in case, you can also check out the FAQ at the bottom with bold print font to see what else you might want to know prior to making the purchase. That's it. Not so hard, right?

Many of these titles weren't available anywhere in the west until this past week. So just be glad they are taking a step at the right direction. And have some patience.


[sarcasm]Thank you so very much for your kind annotations....[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]This guide you so kindly made for the less-intelligent members of this board makes things so easy that even a bakamono can understand it![/sarcasm]

If you can kindly stop insulting my intelligence, I'll be polite enough to stop treating you with disrespect [that is, if you can understand what I'm trying to say... Laughing]

As for patience, you try explaining to fans in the rest of the world in a non-sarcastic manner why they're not allowed to watch certain shows and why they should be patient especially if said shows will never be available in their region in any legal form...

In any case, I'm not a patient person so I'll continue to get the anime that I want by both legal means in the form of giving my money to places like AnimeNation and RightStuf.com instead of CR who clearly don't want my money or Conan-san's money or the money of any other UK anime fan as well as downloading unlicensed anime via AnimeSuki and other sites plus YouTube.

As for Joost UK, I visited the site and it's way worse than CR when it comes to choice!

If I have to break the law to watch what I want to watch, so be it, no matter the risks I take in doing so. Laughing

BTW, why this obsession with trying to prove your point?

FYI, when it comes to downloads, I don't download stuff that's legally available in the UK/USA whereas stuff that's not legally licensed in either country is fair game.

[NOTE: I'm usually a nice guy but in this case, I don't like it when I get accused of being a troll as well as being talked down to, just because I made some valid points about CR which certain people can't accept or won't accept to be the truth]
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BorgmanJayce



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Hades via UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:23 pm Reply with quote
And because I'm such a nice person, here's another analogy that may be of interest to people, especially Sony Fanboys/girls [who I loathe with a absolute passion because they're too vocal in their determination to prove their consoles are better than other consoles whereas I call myself a "hardcore gamer" as I like all the consoles that are currently available out there]

This new analogy goes something like this: The PSP as a region-free console means that people can play PSP games from any region, so if I wanted to buy a game like the new Prinny one that's coming out from NISA next month especially as it won't be out till later this year in PAL territories, I can do so and yet SCEE's definition of 'region-free' is a interesting one in that for some unknown reason known only to themselves, they'd rather have people in PAL territories not be able to play import games and are willing to go to such extents that they'll threaten import companies like Play-Asia and YesAsia with legal action if they ship anything PSP-related to European customers and have already put one company [Lik-Sang] out of business because they falsely claimed that their PSP's were being sold illegally to people in the EU when in fact Lik-Sang had the right to sell them legally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lik_Sang

Basically, if SCEA and SCEJ have no problem with people importing games from other parts of the world, say for example, a Japanese PSP owner buys a US-exclusive game on import, SCEA doesn't have any with that and vice-versa in a US gamer buying a Japanese game.

In any case, the PSP is probably one of the poorest-selling consoles in PAL console history due to SCEE's arrogance, greed and not having a choice of games similar to that of SCEA [and in some cases, refusing games that came out in both Japan and America to come out at all; one notorious case being Jeanne D'Arc and I still wonder if it was because SCEE were too scared of being accused of offending the French if the game came out in PAL territories which is a crying shame as I've played the game and it's quite good, to be honest]. What makes matters worse is their absolute arrogance in that they'll allow the same import game companies to sell import PSOne/PS2 games to people in Europe yet at the same time claim that modding your PSOne or PS2 to play said import games is illegal as the modchips can also allow the consoles to play pirate games.

At the end of it all, you have to ask yourself, why is the PSP being marketed as a region-free console in PAL territories when SCEE are making it diffcult to obtain import PSP games legally and you either have to take a huge risk by buying them from eBay or do what the majority of PAL gamers probably do, download them and play them on a Memory Stick instead!

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the business plans of CR and various other anime production and distribution companies are trying to use for legal downloads clearly do not work and never will work as long as resourceful people always find a way to compromise the system and get what they want even if it's illegal to do so.

Thus endeth the analogy! Very Happy
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Shuchung



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:40 pm Reply with quote
BorgmanJayce wrote:
you try explaining to fans in the rest of the world in a non-sarcastic manner why they're not allowed to watch certain shows and why they should be patient especially if said shows will never be available in their region in any legal form.

What is there for me to explain, I'm just stating the facts. I didn't make the decision, Crunchyroll didn't make the decision. If you have issue with it, go yell at Toei et al. Plus I'm originally from Taiwan. I can buy stuff legally through family and friends oversea just fine. I don't have a problem with fansub either. Did you just assume I'm American and anti-fansub because I'm on ANN forum?
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Weazul-chan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 625
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:44 pm Reply with quote
I'll give this one last attempt at explanation for those that are ignoring this fact:
this is a FIRST step by an ADAPTING anime industry. FIRST STEP, meaning they want to take MORE steps to make this something global or at least near-global. right now they have to work mostly within a set business model when securing their license to stream titles. since the site is US-based it will obviously be easiest for them to secure the North American region rights first and the rights from Japanese companies willing to directly deal with them (like the anime studio Gonzo, which can more freely give global or near-global rights than a Japanese based station like TV Tokyo). working out the legalities to make it available to more regions would be a second major step.

you can keep looking at this in a glass half empty mentality baawing over the fact it's not available in your region yet or you can look at this as the glass being half full and that they want to work at making it available for you as soon as they legally can. in the end, however, the negative personality naturally tends towards negative thinking and it does take an effort to break that trend.
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samuelp
Industry Insider


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2228
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:06 pm Reply with quote
The true irony of HorribleSubs, is that the only thing they are ending up accomplishing is killing the chance of any of these shows to be continued to be fansubbed by any decent group.

By releasing torrents so quickly with CR's subs, there will be zero motivation for any group to work on it themselves, since CR's subs are a lot better than the average speed sub, anyway.

CR itself could really not give a damn, I'm sure. Someone was gonna rip them and put them online anyway, that was a given. The fact that it's a vocal bunch of 4chan losers just makes it more... amusing. I hope they're happy they're indirectly killing fansubbing.
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