Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Y'all Ready For This
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Sir Amyas Leigh
 Posts: 91 |
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Oh gawd, womenz in anime are objectified sexually? *GASP* Unhand her Dan Backslide!
Seriously though, if anime stopped with the fanservice like half of the fan base would drop off, realizing that all the cutesy girly cartoons they are watching are just that, cartoons. I liked that link to the xbox live shame site... funny, I always think people who act like that online as a bunch of crass twelve year olds, I always just set the mute and blacklist the suckers. (Yeah turns out people think Amyas Leigh, the name of the manliest fictional character ever, is a girls name, so i've gotten some of the vulgar crap those kids send) |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I often forget, as a straight female in her late 20s, I'm NOT the target demographic for a lot of anime ... However, I really enjoy fanservice for some reason. I love Strike Witches, and the fanservice feels like more of a bonus to me, rather than a distraction. For me, though, I actually enjoy fanservice more when it's in your face /blatant while the female characters are well rounded, strong, and capable. I absolutely, adore Queen's Blade, bc the fanservice is so ridiculously in your face that it's tons of fun, BUT the female characters don't giggle embarrassedly about it ... Instead, they are strong characters in a decent story with more important things to focus on.
When it comes to sexism in anime, the things that drive me up the wall are the more ingrained notions of gender ... Like saying "well, you are the man ..." or "you are a girl" ... As if those statements inherently mean something about a person or a relationship or someone's abilities or desires. THAT is infuriating to me. |
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Rij
 Posts: 27 |
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I'm an outspoken, unapologizing feminist. Just to get that out of the way in the beginning.
I have no problem with fanservice laden male-fantasy anime (or manga) unless it's shoved at my face. I do have trouble with fans who take it far too seriously and try to pass tits-and-ass as some sort of serious social commentary and try to come up with logical reasons for the stupid plots. Or worse, try to make me watch it and fail to understand why I'd rather not. The absolute worst species is the type of fanboy who goes "eww" at yaoi or anything aimed at girls while at the same time drooling over the latest show about jiggly boobs. |
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ljaesch
Posts: 299 Location: Enumclaw, WA |
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As a female anime reviewer, I have a very simply reason as to why I haven't written a review for Strike Witches (and Queen's Blade for that matter): I just haven't gotten around to seeing these yet.
And why haven't I gotten around to seeing them yet? At this point in the game, I've heard enough chatter online to know that these are more than likely not going to be things that I'm going to be interested in. Do I plan to sample them at some point? Yes, but they haven't moved up high enough on my list. I was doing some reorganization to the site I write about anime for recently, which included breaking out reviews by letters of the alphabet. I noticed that the letter Q was missing, and my first thought was, "Well, there *is* Queen's Blade I could see to rectify that... if I can find it to watch anywhere, that is." So I intend to write about these titles at some point, but it may not be anytime in the immediate future... |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I couldn't help chuckling when reading this. I watched Strike Witches, and to be honest I don't even remember what the story was about. I can't even remember the characters' names. There were too many of them running around trying to steal each others' panties and blushing and wishing they could be in bed with one of the other girls. That's all I remember. That and the crotch shots. I remember thinking the show was kind of funny and mildly entertaining, but it also had little to no societal value. Everyone can enjoy shows like Strike Witches but if we do, we should realize exactly what they are and exactly what they are trying to do. It's not that people who watch shows like Strike Witches are creeps. However, I do think people who watch it and refuse to accept what it is really all about are kind of suspect if only for the reason that they are clearly in denial about something. Again, it's a show where a bunch of young looking girls chase each other around in nothing but panties (and sometimes not even that). The aerial combat and magic and historical stuff is all tangential to that. Enjoyable? Perhaps. But clearly impure enjoyment. |
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Maize Hughes
Posts: 81 |
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Hi Brian,
Can we draw a bright line between stuff that's reprehensible, and tired tropes we'd like to stop now? Strike Witches: can we all agree that crotch shots of underage girls is creepy bad? Shoving the thinly covered ladyparts at the (virtual) camera is not a marker of quality, but doing so when the characters couldn't possibly, remotely, be old enough to consent or desire is a swirling vortex of wrong. I remember when our anime club screened three episodes of Hyakka Ryōran Samurai Girls as part of our "lets see whats being simulcast" series. Everyone, but especially the ladies was cheering an enthusiastic at the opening title sequence with strong, awesome, chicks falling from the sky slicing open airplanes with katanas! Woo! Then, the chuckling at the ink-blot censorship once the story started. And then, you could feel the enthusiasm just drain out of the room, as it became apparent that we'd be following the antics of a naked loli and her busty, dimwitted, naked assistant, and/or the naked amnesiac girl who fell from the sky into the arms of the bland, but fully clothed male lead. (Where lead=background character that moves the plot along.) Not the best example, since it has a mix of reprehensible (naked lolis) and tired (boobs! bland male!). But I think it illustrates the point, and goes beyond: Tacky fanservice and tired tropes kill otherwise awesome stories, and by kill, I mean you can actually feel the joy drain out of the room. On a more personal note, I am a father of daughters, and I detest the sexualization of young children. I also am really disappointed that so many otherwise awesome stories of girls doing awesome things with strength, determination, and intelligence are larded with tropes that undermine those themes. I could go on and on about the finer points of "good" and "bad" fanservice, and discuss what I mean with some more subtlety, but I think you know what I mean. Thanks for reading this one, Will |
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Sir Amyas Leigh
Posts: 91 |
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funny I've never once met a person to take jiggly boob anime seriously, unless its an 'Outspoken, unapologizing femitist' (usually the type who has never seen an anime until they look at my zettai ryouiki shirt and call me a chauvanist  ) , not to offend you personally. Then again I've never been to a convention so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Yaoi's allrght, but it can get just as bad (worse in a few ways) as boobieslol anime. (Being raped does not equal being loved, which is something I've only seen in yaoi and yuri, and really creeps me out)
Last edited by Sir Amyas Leigh on Fri May 18, 2012 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I am mostly in agreement with this sentiment. As a good example, a while back I watched the show Kanokon after seeing scathing reviews of it on ANN and I became curious. It was kind of like Strike Witches but just more explicitly sexual. However, the underlying theme of the show was actually quite interesting. If they had laid off the mindless fanservice and focused on the theme, I think it would have been a really cool show. A similar theme was used in Birdy the Mighty and that has been a very popular and positively reviewed show. |
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Thatguy3331
 Posts: 1790 |
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As a straight male myself, I have this phrase:
"You don't have to care, but be fair." Really at this point in my life, saying I'm like those shounen heros who aren't attracted to anything would be as blatent as a lie as saying the "last airbender" live action movie was faithful to the TV series. Truth of the matter is, certian "moe-sish" character designs have convinced me to check out certian series for I wonder what this character really is (Misaka for index, Hinagiku for hayate, and in a non moe-ish way, Chopper for One piece) The fanservise aspect of anything basicly deals with how well drawn it is. If its HSOTD, then chances are, male vibes will kick in. If its those few momments of fanservice in stuff like, Hayate, I generally don't care as to me, everyone looks like little people in that series. I have particular things that click and things that don't, I'm a guy getting used to hormones what the hell do you expect? Girls you have your yaoi and shows of that nature so really I don't see why I have to stop, if you have your own stash of goodies (that I as a male, find repulsive) But the thing is this: we can't be not-so-nice-people about it; in otherwords "being fair", and respecting each others gender. As long as no one's shoving something they don't want to see into another person's face, really its all good. Of course this isn't to say people will still have a problem with some things: fanservice has infact been used alot in alot of anime shows, and the KIND of fanservice gets more and more wierd as time goes on. but in these instances its just knowing when its wise to bat an eye or say something. There could be something that really is offensive and that needs to be spoken up about, but at the same time, there are some things, or in this case many things, that you just aren't going to win. |
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jenthehen
Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I can certainly respect your feelings, especially as a father of daughters, but I like to point out that anime is NOT REAL. The female characters barely look like real people... Especially the younger "loli" characters in these types of series. It just seems completely different to me. I have little to no interest in human females sexually, but I love me some 2D girl fanservice. It's just .... Not even comparable to reality in my eyes. I would categorize Samurai Girls as an offense fanservice anime, bc the themes in the show and behavior of the female characters are presented in a very sexist manner. It certainly isn't just the nudity/boobs in that show that makes it awful/offensive. The samurai "girls" are emotionally weak and as giggly and embarrassed as school children and depend on a man they adore for some unknown reason. THAT is offensive to me ... As opposed to just a crotch shot for prurient purposes. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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My main problem with gratutitous fanservice is that it feels like the creators are trying to convince us that the characters are sexy. It's like, they're going "HEY LOOK AT THESE CUTE GIRLS! AREN'T THEY HOT?! THEYRE HOT RIGHT?!"
If a character was attractive, they should be attractive on their own. There's no need to have the camera "assist" them. Just go through the story normally and they'll be plenty attractive on their own. Another thing is that it seems like the female characters are being revered solely for their traits, and not for being characters. A good example of this is Strike Witches: the girls are constantly having the camera zooming in on their butts and busts. It feels like the Otaku are suppozed to objectify them and define them solely by their sexual characteristics (I find the "girl is embarassed because she has small boobs" trope to be aggravating because of this--it's fine if it's for comedy, but it just seems to have a ugly veneer of "a woman is only worthwhile if she's got big boobs", which is blatant sexism and objectification) Quite often, these crotch shots don't show the face of the girl. I feel as if this is telling me that I'm supposed to focus solely on her body and not on her as a human. Without a face there, there's no real difference between her and a manniquen (I know I misspelled that). That's just creepy in my opinion. It's like I'm supposed to view her as a cute little doll, not a human. To sunmarize: Just make a character attractive, and don't make the camera work to "help" them so damn much. Yes, some cheesy fanservice shots are okay, but not to the pathological degree many fanservice shows take it to. (On the other hand, Negima! is one of my favorite manga, so I'm being kind of a hypocrite here) Last edited by Chagen46 on Fri May 18, 2012 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vantos
 Posts: 102 |
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Personally, while jiggly-boob scantily-clad panty-shots galore fanservice doesn't bother me as a concept (neither does yaoi or other female-aimed fanservice for that matter -- everyone needs self-arousal material) I think there's far too much of it in recent years.
When it comes to romantic comedies, I really liked the more recent Ah! My Goddess -- there was a lot of cuteness and warmth amid the comedy, with scarcely a panty in sight. Also, Tenchi Universe -- an old series, yes -- was pretty good, focusing more on broader comedy and action than just sexual stuff. I'm actually the reverse of jenthehen -- people saying stuff like "you are a girl" or "I am a man," things that underline sexual distinctions, and women actually respecting the men they like, are precisely what I enjoy; I find this far more satisfying than mere fanservice. Truth be told, it's one of the reasons I enjoyed Ah! My Goddess so much. This, of course, won't float everyone's boat, but I think that a reduction in fanservice would do wonders, paired with competent writing of course. And no, I'm not saying "BAN DE STRONG WIMMENZ SHOWZ NAO!" or anything like that; I'm for free speech, even speech I find deeply offensive (that being said, shows with action girls, or even headstrong girls who get their way through sheer force of will, generally do not piss me off, just overt male-bashing.) P.S.: You know, this is probably the best way to handle these sorts of discussions -- I, personally, will not take anything on this thread as endorsing censorship unless the poster says they are doing so. Last edited by Vantos on Fri May 18, 2012 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sir Amyas Leigh
Posts: 91 |
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This a thousand times. Yeah. |
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Vantos
Posts: 102 |
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Agreed. I get this feeling from female characters in shows where romance isn't the focus. |
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jymmy
 Posts: 1244 |
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This is a view I've always held strongly. They're simply the distillation of desired anime traits like innocence, petiteness and big-eyedness. Lolis are not reflective of what actual little girls are like. Returning to this thread's mascot series, Lucchini from Strike Witches basically looks like a brattier, smaller and flatter-chested version of any of the other non-adults. The characters in Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-chan rather humorously bear no resemblance to actual children whatsoever. (Dokuro-chan's probably better-endowed than the average Japanese woman. Zakuro-chan's supposed to be nine and looks closer to sixteen.) |
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