Forum - View topicNEWS: Yaoi Manga Strong Seller at Amazon
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darkhunter
 Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
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Bush's too busy fighting terriorist and gay marriage to care about fantasy novel involvinng homosexual male. |
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manafairy
 Posts: 113 Location: My own tweaked world.... |
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Indeed. Although, I honestly highly doubt the person at the cash register would ever actually card someone buying a book. I mean, I've never been questioned when buying Berserk or Battle Royale. Regardless, I'd still be too worried to try buying in an actual store because of the slight one-in-a-million chance that the cashier would care if I was "underage" or not. Not only that, but the covers often look pretty suggestive. I doubt I'd be alone in saying it feels a tad akward to hand the cashier a pile of books, some of which may be plastic wrapped and/or have two guys gazing lovingly at (or touching) each other, then seeing the expression on the cashiers face as they scan the said books (Not that I know from experience or anything  )
Also Indeed. For some reason, with the exception of my local anime stores, It's very rare to see anything yaoi at the big book stores. I mean, I managed to find OtRFK at Borders, but as for anything a little harder, I can only find them through online stores (Apparently, even Walmart.com sells yaoi  ) and specialty stores.
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Toboe
 Posts: 138 Location: Rakuen |
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hahahaha hahah hahaha Number one: yaoi manga is exploitative and frequently plays in to insulting, damaging and otherwise inappropriate stereotypes about gays. Some of it is "heartfelt touching romance", usually between two gay stereotypes (dominate/bull and submissive/bottom); frequently the latter is a young boy of some kind, which is also an unfortunate stereotype. Number two: "yaoi fandom" is little more than hornball teenage girls objectifying gay men. To suggest that they're honestly interested in promoting gay rights, which is a cause worth fighting for, is an insult to people who actually do crusade for equality. Buying gay porn comics does not make you a political activist, it doesn't mean you "support" the gay community because you like to watch cartoon characters have anal sex. Show up at a gay rights rally and understand that these are PEOPLE, not just sex objects for your own "^____^ kekeke teh nummeh" fapping pleasure, realize that they ARE oppressed and THEN MAYBE you can call youself a supporter of gay rights. A REAL supporter. Until then, enjoy your porn and don't pretend to be sanctimonious about it and PLEASE don't pretend like you know anything at all about the gay community and what they're dealing with. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Can we say "ouch"? I think you're slighty wrong on the effect manga can have on a growing mind Toboe. Yaoi, even if some people find it stereotypical, is a way to open up minds to homosexuality. Heck, and just for kicks, I'll use myself as an example. Before I was the bright, wonderfully obnoxious age of 13, I was homophobic. I didn't know what to think of people who were homosexual, so I just went with the church view that was hammered into me since I could begin to remember. Then one day I picked up volume one of revolutionary girl Utena at blockbuster, and hello homosexuality. Sure at first it didn't really have anything, but ever so slowly the homosexual nature of the characters was made apparent. I was a bit freaked out at first, but I was enjoying the show too much to let a few odd balls "ruin" the show for me. By the time I finished the Utena tv series, I really did have a new outlook and tolerence for homosexuals. I can't explain why. I just did. You say that yaoi isn't helping with the promotion of gay rights at all, and I again have to disagree. Girls left and right are getting OK with the idea of guys doing it with guys, and they see nothing wrong with it. Heck, I know some girls who go to a catholic school who love the stuff, even though they have to hide it from their parents. It's helping some of the new youth who would never even think about homosexual males before, get OK with them through comics. In what seems to be a very dark four years coming up for gay rights, they need all the help they can get. If some girl went to the poll and voted "no" against some amendment that would be against gay rights just because she's a fan of Gravitation, I do believe it helped promote gay rights. Also, another thing. People keep trying to pass it off on this forum that actual gay guys hate yaoi. I know this to not be true. I myself have tons of gay friends, and a number of them are always after me with news of the latest yaoi/shonen-ai. As my gay friend Darrel said about Gravitation, "it's so cute and adorable!! And Yuki! Oh my." Also, you're saying all these people supporting yaoi are supporting porn. It's been addressed more than once that people on the forum consider yaoi as another name for shonen-ai in general, and not just the porn side of it. |
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jay saenz
 Posts: 81 Location: Costa Rica |
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Sorry, i had no intention to ofense anyone.
Not all yaoi (or shounen ai, however you want to call it) is gay porn. I accept that there are awfull yaoi mangas that denigrates gay relationships, i agree with you about that. But there are great stories too, about young men facing their fears about accepting being gay, even if the homosexuality has being historically more acepted in Japan that it has being in the U.S and Latinamerica. My point is that if people, even if they are a bunch of young horny teens, start to watch gay relationships as something normal, not a moral threat, things can go better for the gay comunity. I see yaoi comics as part of new media culture that promotes equality. Remember that only few decades ago tv studios used to ban all kind of sexual content. I have many friends (some of them straight males) that enjoy yaoi and they have taught me to be more tolerant with gay people. I can't say that i enjoy watch to men engaged in a sexual relationship, but at least i have learn to respect other peoples sexual choices. I don't consider myself a full political activist, as matter of fact, i still got a lot to learn about many things including how to deal with gays, but i think that tolerance is the key to live a healthy society. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I was over reading DMP's website and they have this nice little blurb:
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it is a slight misrepresentation of the truth. 3 of the top 5 manga graphic novels at Amazon are Yaoi (actually Shounen Ai). None of the top 5 graphic novels sold in america are yaoi according to Bookscan. While Bookscan isn't the world's most accurate sales ranking, it does represent a very large number of stores, and is a much better representation of sales across America than Amazon's list, which only counts sales at one store. What's more, the Shounen Ai titles were 3 of the top 5 manga items. The top selling Manga graphic novel is #6 on Amazon's list of top selling graphic novels and #26 on their broader "comic book" list. Perhaps I should have made this more clear in the news article. Last edited by Tempest on Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This situation is a little unfortunate.
Yaoi and Shonen-ai are not the same thing, but North American distributors have decided to lable Shounen-ai as Yaoi. It's a more marketable term, and it's probably going to firmly entrench itself as the defacto term referring to what used to be two seperate genres. Personally it annoys me, because when I'm reading about something, I'd like to know if we're actually talking about Shonen-ai or Yaoi. For example, the list of titles that made Amazon's top manga sales, I haven't read most of those, so I have no idea which ones are Yaoi and which ones are Shonen-ai. I suspect that they're all Shonen-ai, but since I don't know that for the fact, it was safer for me to re-use the term Yaoi that the distributors and ICv2 used. -t |
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jay saenz
Posts: 81 Location: Costa Rica |
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Thanks for the information.
I ve been talking to a bunch of yaoi/shounen ai fans, and even they have problems to use both words. From what i read about the topic yaoi is about raw sex and shounen ai is more about romance... but some authors mix sex and romance, so its hard to make a real diference between both terms. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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When it mixes both it is more appropriatekly labelled Shonen-ai. One migh point out that it's pornographic Shonen-ai though.
animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=26 animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=23 Pay attention to the origin of the word Yaoi. -t |
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Vicwic
Posts: 9 Location: UK |
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Perhaps some truth here........it could be seen as an objectification of gay relationships by women as much as girl-girl porn is an objectification of lesbian relationships by men. I am aware of that as I am reading my yaoi. The relationships may sometimes include dominant/submissive, old/young pairings - which I dislike, I prefer more equal relationships - but that tends to be a failing of romance literature in general, male= dom, female =sub. But at the same time it is a little harsh. Others have pointed out how yaoi can lead to a genuine opening of minds and an introduction of new concepts and perspectives and a, rightful, normalisation of same-sex relationships. In many series, homophobia is mentioned as threatening the characters, as an obstacle and as something wrong. I have noticed that a liking of yaoi, slash or whatever does tend to tie in with/lead to an awareness of homophobia and gay rights in a way that male enjoyment of girl-girl porn does not. This is only an observation of mine, by the way, so don't yell at me!!! I've had men say that girls together is fine but men together is wrong and show absolutely no awareness or interest in the struggles that two women who really are together would face in society, nor of their own hypocrisy. They seem to isolate out the sex and not go beyond it which I can't do. |
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RabbitRevolution
 Posts: 218 |
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Distributors probably lump all boys-love manga together under yaoi because they're simply following the conventions of the fan community. I find the fan use of yaoi a little annoying too, because I can't fathom how people can get so into both the shounen-ai and yaoi genres and not learn the difference between the two. I really have not been exposed to that much shounen-ai/yaoi manga, but soon after I really became an anime fan (that is, after my initial Sailor Moon phase  ), I found out what both shounen-ai and yaoi meant. So if even I, a more or less yaoi (but not shounen ai) virgin, can keep the two terms straight, it shouldn't be that hard!
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I asked about several yaoi titles at Walden-they dind't carry them. I have the DMP put aside for me at a local comic shop, but they didn't carry Skyscrapers of Oz. I ordered all the CPM from Right Stuf at the CPM sale so I don't really give rat's rear if it's a month late or not--I'm getting them for under $10 each. I'm so backed up right now, it's pathetic--I have about 50 manga to read.
So I know traditional bookstores are a waste of time for yaoi. Right Stuf & Amazon carry the titles, so people buy from them--simple. The shonen ai/yaoi debate is endless. Several sources(including yaoi-con's website) insist shonen ai has fallen out of use in Japan. Yaoi isn't gay porn. Most info on it(including CPM's Be Beautiful promo stuff) states yaoi is, for the most part by women for women, putting it squarely in the realm of romantic fantasy like many romance novels, (I remember the debate a few years back over the amount of rapes in romance novels with rape being portrayed as a desirable thing), Guys can write them & guys can read them, but the target audience is WOMEN, not gay guys. Thus we get the "stereotype" of one guy being basically a chick--because it's usually BY chicks. Some of them might have a gay friend or 2, but I've not seen it in the stuff I've read. I did notice Only the Ring Finger had guys more like we see in shonen titles & when I read the author bios, it turned out the artist was female, but the author was male. Only the Ring Finger & Vol. 1 of Selfish love were only kissing. Skyscrapers was probably the most graphic of the bunch I've seen so far. I've been to a gay pride parade, and I don't care what consenting adults do. My daughter has several gay friends--who cares? People are people |
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Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
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Guess Yaoi got a semi-reprieve:
Ashcroft set to leave Bush Cabinet. |
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jay saenz
Posts: 81 Location: Costa Rica |
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Well, i understand why the main target of yaoi/shounen ai is women, just bylooking at the handsome male characters of those stories. It works in the same way that yuri/shoujo ai with the boys. However, at least here in Costa Rica, part of the yaoi/shounen ai fandom wants this genre to be better known in the mainstream and not something "just for girls and gays". I ve seen a couple of shounen ai titles (gravitation is the one that i remember right now) and i find it funny, even if the love story is between two guys, and i m not the only guy who thinks that way. I also have found out that several girls find hentai/yuri/shoujo ai atractive, even if they are straight girls. As a matter of fact, I think that at least here in Costa Rica girls are more open minded than guys when it comes to sex in anime. |
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Oh well, I guess I will end up ordering it from Amazon. 
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